CE:s serious couch - Q&A on brains

Ned Flanders · Post by **Ned Flanders** » Wed Jul 24, 2002 4:02 pm

by Flibble
What are the physiological causes and effects of migraines?

Dude! Have you look at your avatar? It must be vented frustration when the "want woman, want woman" chant isn't working.

Mr Flibble · Post by **Mr Flibble** » Wed Jul 24, 2002 4:07 pm

Originally posted by Ned Flanders

Dude! Have you look at your avatar? It must be vented frustration when the "want woman, want woman" chant isn't working.

ROFL!!!!

That could be it, but unfortunately the migraines started before I put that avatar in.

Yshania · Post by **Yshania** » Wed Jul 24, 2002 4:23 pm

Originally posted by Mr Flibble

OK, here's one for you @CE. What are the physiological causes and effects of migraines? And why does sticking my head in a bucket of cold water help alleviate the pain?

The spam thread might be a better place for me to suggest a bucket of water help the aspirin go down

Tom · Post by **Tom** » Thu Jul 25, 2002 6:27 am

Originally posted by Vinin
der...well i was just wondering, because my history class was across the hall from one of the special education classes, and never being one to maek fun of them, I've always wondered how they are different. Apperently C Elegans doesnt wanna touch this either...

CE hasn’t been here for a bit.

Its a very good question and I certainly don't know the answer - it was just the way you phrased it - I know exactly what CE would have said to me.

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Thu Jul 25, 2002 11:33 am

Sorry for the delay, I've been busy a couple of days...

posted by Vinin
Hmm, im sorry if this question sounds ignorant or wrong to ask, but I've always wondered what is different about a retarded person's mind and my own?

Not at all

On the contrary, it is a very good question, and a question science cannot yet explain in full because we don't know enough about how the brain really functions. There are many different types of retardations, or mental disabilities. Trying to describe the difference between a normal brain functioning and brain functioning of just one all the conditions that leads to lowered mental functioning, would be a subject suitable for a PhD dissertation. I'll just take a few examples here and describe them very briefly, feel free to ask additional question if you like:

Some disabilites are caused by genetical disorders, like Down's syndrome, and the extra chromosome these individuals have lead to abnormal development of the nervous system. That's why they are sometimes referred to as developmental disabilites. It is now widely thought that schizophrenia is a neurodevelopmental disorder, as well as autism.
Down syndrom patients have underdeveloped cerebral cortex, cerebellum and white matter compared to healthy people. They also have abnormal transmission of several important chemicals in the brain, and their brains start to develop a condition similar to Alzheimer's when they are only in their early middle age.

Little is know about the causes of autism, but there are differences in certain types of brain cells, and in neurotransmission.

Cerebral palsy is another common disability, and that is thought to be caused by trauma or other types of damage to the fetus in utero, ie before it is born. The exact causes are not known, certain infections like Rubella in the mother, exposure to toxins or lack of oxygen can lead to CP. CP patients have both motoric and mental symptoms, and many deep lying subcortical parts of the brain are underdeveloped. CP is not progressive, it stays the same until the person dies.

Another group of disabilites are the neurodegenerative disorder, where the cells in the nervous system dies over time, which lead to very severe but thankfully rare disorders. Rhett's syndrome and special forms of epilepsia will kill a child early, almost always before age 12.

Weasel · Post by **Weasel** » Thu Jul 25, 2002 11:43 am

Originally posted by C Elegans
Sorry for the delay, I've been busy a couple of days...

Not at all On the contrary, it is a very good question, and a question science cannot yet explain in full because we don't know enough about how the brain really functions. .

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a mentally ill person's brain is formed the same a normal person....it's just like you said not functioning right.

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Thu Jul 25, 2002 11:55 am

Originally posted by Ode to a Grasshopper
I have a serious question, though it's not completely about the brain. How come people high on marijuana get 'the munchies'? It doesn't matter if you're out doing 10km walks or just sitting on a couch giggling, for some reason that I don't know the munchies always appear. What's with that?

This question is very much about the brain

There is a substance is marijuana that is called cannabiods, and a similar substance exists naturally in the brain. The naturally occuring molecule, endocannabinoids, have specific receptors on brain cells that they bind to. Since cannbiods in marijuana are similar molecules, they also bind to the endocannabinoids receptors, and cause a similar effect on the brain than endocannabinoids do. And what is the effect of endocannabionoids? Among other things, they are connected to a hormone called leptins, that regulate body fat. They also involved in regulation of food intake and sense of hunger. There was a groundbreaking study last year that indicated that cannabiods binds to CB1 receptor in the brain structure hypothalamus (which is very important for regulation of basic human needs and words as a central for the endocrine system (hormonal system), a receptor that has been shown to activate maintaining of food intake. So by smoking pot, people activate the mechanism meant to keep us alive by signalling we are hungry when we need to eat, trouble is just that the pot activates this system even if we don't really need to eat at all.

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Thu Jul 25, 2002 12:02 pm

Originally posted by Weasel
Correct me if I'm wrong, but a mentally ill person's brain is formed the same a normal person....it's just like you said not functioning right.

This is correct as far as we know now...There is a difference between mental retardation disorders like Down's syndrome, and mental illness as in psychiatric illness. In DS, some anatomical differences can be seen, but in psychiatric disorders, no differences in form (ie anatomy) has ever been consistently shown. Sometimes new studies have screamed out "larger ventricles found in schizophrenic patients", then it turns out that this is nothing peculiar to schizophrenia, lots of people with both other disorders and no disorder also have enlarged ventricles. (The ventricles are the "hollow compartmets" in the brain where the cerebrospinal fluid passes)

The reason why the brain in functioning as it should, probably lies far beyond the level of anatomy - differences in neurochemical transmission and intracellular events are the most likely candidates at present.

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Thu Jul 25, 2002 12:18 pm

Originally posted by Mr Flibble
What are the physiological causes and effects of migraines? And why does sticking my head in a bucket of cold water help alleviate the pain?

*Sigh* - this is the bad part (but also the exciting part) of being a brain researcher: not much is known. The exact mechanism that cause of migrane are is not known, but some of it is known and can be described: There are several types of migraine-type headeaches but all have in common that the attack change the pattern of brain activity and leads to dilated (expanded) and inflammated blood vessels, which cause pain. Since cold water cause blood vessels to shrink, you probably get some pain relief because of this. All migraine medicine contain a substance that makes the blood vessels shrink back to normal again.

The most researched hypothesis presently, is that migraine is caused by a vulnerability in the nervous system, that makes it oversensitivity to changes in the environment. This vulnerability is thought to be related to the serotonin system.

Tybaltus · Post by **Tybaltus** » Thu Jul 25, 2002 1:57 pm

This is probably a question that has an obvious answer, but Ill ask it anyway.

Why do we so frequently forget the dreams we had when we wake up? I mean I usually only remember certain parts of dreams, and my dad says he hasnt remembered a dream in the last 10 years. So why do dreams fade away from our memory?

Craig · Post by **Craig** » Thu Jul 25, 2002 2:19 pm

Do you know what causes Bipolar thingie(I think thats what he has), and how is shizophrenia posible? Is it the same brain rewired?

Ode to a Grasshopper · Thu Jul 25, 2002 11:28 pm

Originally posted by C Elegans

This question is very much about the brain There is a substance is marijuana that is called cannabiods, and a similar substance exists naturally in the brain. The naturally occuring molecule, endocannabinoids, have specific receptors on brain cells that they bind to. Since cannbiods in marijuana are similar molecules, they also bind to the endocannabinoids receptors, and cause a similar effect on the brain than endocannabinoids do. And what is the effect of endocannabionoids? Among other things, they are connected to a hormone called leptins, that regulate body fat. They also involved in regulation of food intake and sense of hunger. There was a groundbreaking study last year that indicated that cannabiods binds to CB1 receptor in the brain structure hypothalamus (which is very important for regulation of basic human needs and words as a central for the endocrine system (hormonal system), a receptor that has been shown to activate maintaining of food intake. So by smoking pot, people activate the mechanism meant to keep us alive by signalling we are hungry when we need to eat, trouble is just that the pot activates this system even if we don't really need to eat at all.

Cheers Doc

, no worries, I need the extra weight anyway...

Tom · Post by **Tom** » Fri Jul 26, 2002 7:31 am

Consciousness

Do you see any hope for the resolution of the problem of consciousness?

As you probably know it is something a lot of philosophers get their knickers in a twist over.

The problem is easily stated but often many find it hard to grasp. I believe that many neuroscientists have a working assumption that the mind is the same as the brain and most philosophers will go along with this (obviously with many qualifications).
One of the problems that we have left on this view is a problem with consciousness. Why or how does it exist!? (in fact the problem it is still there whatever theory of the mind we adopt) One might think this is a problem just for scientists but philosophers get involved because they don't see how the problem could be explained by science as we understand it now.

Let me explain how I see the problem.
What is at stake is not how we remember things or how we move our limbs - all that seems pretty straight forward. What the problem centres on is raw feeling as some like to call it. Look at an object near to you, notice its colour. Light is bounced of the object at a certain wavelength and then hits you retina, this produces an electrochemical signal that runs to your brain - this in turn produces an impression of a colour. This impression is a strange thing. Such impressions are usually called qualia. The question is - you know you have got qualia and you are pretty sure others do too - but why.
Most of us are pretty sure that stones don't have impressions of any kind. Neither does simple machines like an internal combustion engine. But the brain does, somehow the electrochemical signals between neurones conspire to make you have vivid colour, smell, feeling etc. impressions.

Nagel puts it like this ‘fundamentally, an organism has conscious mental states if and only if there is something that it is like to be that organism’, ‘If mental processes are indeed physical processes then there is something that it is like, intrinsically, to undergo certain physical processes.

It seems that these impressions are surplus to requirement. You see a car coming towards you, you jump out of the way. The image of the situation hits the retina, lots and lots of complex of processes take place in the brain - neurones fire all over the place and signals are sent to the muscles to move the body out of the way. Why do we also have all those impressions? Why do people not just go around about their business as normal but with out consciousness?

I was wondering what your take on this problem is - or do you see it as a non-problem? a storm in a metaphysical teacup?

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Fri Jul 26, 2002 8:34 am

With reference to various threads on SYM

Women!!!

Men are from Mars, Women are from Belgium

women are banana's

is there any known difference between the male and female brain?

Craig · Post by **Craig** » Sat Jul 27, 2002 4:46 am

Tybaltus · Post by **Tybaltus** » Sat Jul 27, 2002 10:28 am

Originally posted by Astafas
With reference to various threads on SYM

Women!!!

Men are from Mars, Women are from Belgium

women are banana's

is there any known difference between the male and female brain?

Thats a good question Astafas. I think Ive heard her say the answer is no in a different thread-the thread about single sex schools vs co-ed schools. You can look there, or you can wait for CE to come and answer.

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Sun Jul 28, 2002 4:02 pm

Originally posted by craig
Do you know what causes Bipolar thingie(I think thats what he has), and how is shizophrenia posible? Is it the same brain rewired?

Sorry for the delay Craig, I've not been well for a few days.

Unfortunately, knowbody knows what causes bipolar disorder (formerly known as Manic-depressive disorder) but it seems that it is partly heritable, so genetics obviously play a role. Disturbances of transmitter substances have been observed in some parts of the brain of patients with bipolar disorder, but I think we will have to wait at least another 10 years or so before we can pinpoint the exact cause of the disorder.

I am not sure what you mean with your question about schizophrenia. Schizophrenia is a severe neuropsychiatric disorder characterised by delusions, hallucinations and cognitive deficits. Paranoia, experiences of a fragmented world or experiences that the world is "unreal" are common, as is fragmented speach. Were you perhaps thinking of Dissociative syndrom, when a person can act and feel as two or more different persons, formely called "Multiple personality?". If so, Dissociative syndrom is not a question of having the brain wired as two different brains, it is more a question of severe memory disturbances. In movies and books, Dissociative syndrome is often called schízophrenia, which is wrong.

Tybaltus · Post by **Tybaltus** » Sun Jul 28, 2002 6:04 pm

Well I certainly think I am speaking for most everybody on the forum, by saying I hope you are feeling better, CE.

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Sun Jul 28, 2002 6:42 pm

Thank you Tybaltus, I am in fact feeling a lot better now - must be the wonders of on-line chicken soup

@Astafas: If you read through the threads you linked to, you will already have a fairly good understanding of where brain research stands today regarding gender differences. There are so far no known functional differences between men's and women's brains. This is not the same as saying there are no differences, surely there must be some differences regarding regulation of sex hormones, for instance. However, these differences are probably not so significant as many people wish to believe.

During the 1980's, major steps were taken in the area of molecular biology - that is the basis of our understanding of genes. During the 1990's, with the Human genome project finalised, there was an increasing hope for finding answers for human behaviour in our genes. Unfortunately, our slowly increasing knowledge about genetics, has been picked up by media and popularised beyond recognition, especially in the US for some reason. I often hear that people have read in the popular press that "alcoholism is a genetic disorder" or than different behaviours are "genetic". Interestingly, the people who state these kind of things are almost never professional geneticists - surprisingly often they have no education at all in the field.

Men and women have different body size, thus they have different brain size as well, since all body organs are related to general body size. That means on group level, women have smaller brains than men, just as Asians have smaller brains than Caucasians. Smaller volume does not mean they have fewer cells, instead, the density of the smaller brain is slightly higher.
As I mentioned in the "women" thread, some studies show that women has a thicker corpus callosum than men, but these findings have been inconsistent.
A more consistent finding is that women have less lateralised language function than men, meaning that women have their language functions more distributed in both cerebral hemispheres, whereas men have the language functions more concentrated to the opposite hemisphere as they are dominant in ie right handed men have language function more in left hemisphere. Note however that these differences are not particular to men vs women, right handed people in general have more lateralised language functions than left handed and ambidextrous people.

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Wed Jul 31, 2002 2:45 pm

Sorry Tyb I missed this one previously.

Originally posted by Tybaltus
Why do we so frequently forget the dreams we had when we wake up? I mean I usually only remember certain parts of dreams, and my dad says he hasnt remembered a dream in the last 10 years. So why do dreams fade away from our memory?

When we sleep, we are in an altered state of consciousness, which always make things that happened in the altered state difficult to remember when we return to our "normal" state. Another reason is that dreams are fragmented, often aburd, and do often not related a lot to our everyday life. The lack of contact points means we have fewer associations to dream events in our already existing cognitive memory network, and we are more likely to remember something the more association points we can connect the event to.

We do in fact dream many dreams over a night, but if we remember anything, it is normally only the last 1-2 dreams we had just before waking up. Sometimes we don't remember anyting at all, and this is probably depending on when in the sleep cycle we awake. We dream mostly during the REM stage, and if you wake up during REM, you will surely remember what you dreamt. If you wake up during a dreamless sleep stage, you will probably not remember any dreams at all, and it is thought that people like you father, who almost never remember his dreams, are people who simply have the kind of sleeping pattern so they always wake up during non-dreaming sleep - after all, dreaming only occurs during about 10% of sleeping time.

For people who wish to remember their dreams better, there are many methods, all based on writing down everything you remember as soon as you wake up.