NEW improved henchman AI and exp exploits

Magus · Post by **Magus** » Wed Jul 10, 2002 3:52 pm

If this averaging idea is correct, as it seems to be, then 10 lvl. 1 fighters would each get the same experience for killing a goblin as 1 lvl fighter killing a goblin. That just doesn't make sense. Has anyone tested this in multiplayer, without henchman, familiars, summons, etc? PC's and NPC's could very well operate on different EXP rules (even though the NPC's don't actually gain EXP, they affect how much you get).

Nygma · Post by **Nygma** » Wed Jul 10, 2002 5:29 pm

Ok, I went and ran through the weak goblin hordes twice more to get some more data. Let's see someone make sense of this !!

Basically, I went from the doors that Aribeth gives you a key for to the room where you finally fight the Mysterious Mage, trying all combinations of lvl 1/2, summoned creature (dire boar, lvl 7), and henchman (Pavel, lvl 1 fighter). The results were mind-boggling:

(Char. Lvl) (Alone) (Boar only) (Pavel only) (Pavel and Boar)

1 20xp 4xp 21xp 5xp
2 48xp 7xp 21xp 8xp

Major questions:

Why do you get more experience at a higher level, except with Pavel?
Why is Pavel different?
Why do you get MORE experience with Pavel than alone?

And finally, one glaring observation: you definitely don't want to summon a creature higher than you, unless it's REALLY necessary. (That's a HUGE exp. drop early on.)

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Thu Jul 11, 2002 3:43 pm

Several different things are going on here...

XP is split between your "party" (which may or may not include henchmen, summons, familiars and animal companions).
A higher level "party" gains less XP.
XP is unevenly divided between members of a "party". Higher level members get a bigger share.
BioWare has (presumably after smoking a lot of stuff that's not quite tobacco) seen fit to provide some classes with an XP boost at lower levels. This boost gradually lessens as you progress. Spellcasting classes get a bigger boost "because they're harder to play".

All these points factor in simultaneously, which makes it real damn hard to find out which one is causing the abberations.

Magus · Post by **Magus** » Thu Jul 11, 2002 6:45 pm

Originally posted by Xyx
<snip>

XP is unevenly divided between members of a "party". Higher level members get a bigger share.

<snip>

Are you sure about this one? I heard it's true in Diablo II, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's true for NWN.

Tzetoth · Post by **Tzetoth** » Thu Jul 11, 2002 8:39 pm

Yeah, the XP rewards piss me off..they prevent laming, too. If I was to make a level 1 char and toss it in a later module having a henchman level me..the xp rewards drop dramatically.

For example, I just created a char in Chap. 2 and ran around with Daelan..I was getting less exp per goblin than I would get killing a weak goblin. and zombie warriors were giving 20xp if I was lucky.

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Fri Jul 12, 2002 5:39 am

Assuming that with "laming" Tzetoth means hanging back and raking in XP while higher level characters do all the work for you, then yes, BioWare apparently felt the need to fix this. The way they implemented is so backwards, however, that it actually helps the higher level character to tow around a bunch of n00bs.

Tzetoth · Post by **Tzetoth** » Fri Jul 12, 2002 6:06 am

I also think that might also be the reason your henchman stays a level under you? So the rewards aren't affected so dramatically?

And yes, that is what I meant when I said "laming".

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Fri Jul 12, 2002 3:56 pm

Originally posted by Tzetoth I also think that might also be the reason your henchman stays a level under you? So the rewards aren't affected so dramatically?

That and the fact that nobody will recruit a level 4 henchman later in the game, which would mean you're stuck with the one you chose.

Phantom Lord · Post by **Phantom Lord** » Sat Jul 20, 2002 1:17 pm

XP distribution seems to be far stranger than I imagined so far. As a ranger 8/ rogue 5 I got 29 XP solo and 244 (!) XP in the presence of my animal companion (bear) for a skeleton warrior in chapter two. The same factor applies for other fights and I think this can only be called a serious bug - no rule that makes sense would award you with 9 times the amount of XP just for protecting (or parking) your companion ...

limorkil · Post by **limorkil** » Mon Jul 22, 2002 6:13 am

This thread explains a lot of wierd observations I made with characters early in chapter 1.

For a start, I noticed that my druid gets way less XP than my rogue/ranger. Now, after reading this thread, I can see that this is caused by using my pet, a panther, which is always 3 levels higher than me (it starts at level 4 and goes up a level as I level).

Then I ditched my pets and henchmen and tried going solo with a rogue/monk. I noticed that I was getting slightly less XP solo than I was with a henchman. That's probably a result of the henchman being lower level than me.

I'm not sure whether I like these XP rules or not. Seems like my druid deserves less XP because the panther is doing a lot of the work, but then the whole idea of a druid is to use a pet all the time, i.e. the pet is 'part' of the whole druid class.

I particularly don't like the way henchmen work. I wanted to NOT use a henchman because he/she makes the game too easy. With no henchman I should be getting MORE XP because the game is harder. I don't really want MORE XP - I'd settle for the same amount, but not LESS. Still, the difference isn't huge so I am not all that bothered.

We don't really fully understand how the XP system works. Maybe Bioware has it just right and we don't see it because we don't have all the facts. However, based on the evidence so far it seems as though Bioware were confused as to whether they were implementing a multi-player PvP game or a multi-player co-op game. I would have thought the game would be co-op, like D&D, but the XP system seems to be PvP. For example: D&D allocates same XP to all classes, but NWN seems to give some classes more XP than others. I'd expect that in a PvP game, not in a co-op game.

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Sat Jul 27, 2002 10:42 am

Originally posted by limorkil
We don't really fully understand how the XP system works. Maybe Bioware has it just right and we don't see it because we don't have all the facts.

Mwuhahahahah hahahhahaaa *ROFL* mwuhahaha! Hahahaha! Hah!

Izgoth · Post by **Izgoth** » Mon Jul 29, 2002 10:29 am

I seem to be getting much less exp than most of you. My fighter/ranger 9/1 gets less than 15 for almost every enemy. Last time I fought zombie warriors I think I got 12 exp per kill. I always use a henchman tho. Most animal enemies give me less than 10xp. Even an ancient bear which is a fairly strong enemy in chapter 2 gave me 3xp.