A more serious SYM thread (no spam)

[Fiona]

[QUOTE=Lestat]Aim high, the arrow lowers while flying.[/QUOTE]

Um, I just noticed this thread says no spam

[dragon wench]

[QUOTE=Fiona]Um, I just noticed this thread says no spam [/QUOTE]

Tsk tsk... shame on you

[Ravager]

[QUOTE=Hill-Shatar]The SF was brewed out of an argument and the SS out of worry for the SF.[/QUOTE]

The SF was formed due to the diasagreement over how spam should be...whether it should be allowed for two people to spam several pages or for them to stop so people can look back to their posts and 'fairly' respond.
(Link to the disagreement is a few pages back)
The SS was formed thanks to Chu's desire to get the SF shut down as it was and I quote 'no longer welcome'.

And my view on this is pretty much the same as it was before.

If there are cliques developing, then it's probably unavoidable, we do what we can to make people welcome all the same. And I personally don't see such a clique anyway.

[Maharlika]

My take on this...

... I agree when others say that there is NO DELIBERATE INTENTION for the members to be cliquish/clannish.

It all boils down to PERSONAL PREFERENCE/INTEREST.

Generally, SYMians are noted to be very accommodating.

I may not post as often as I did back in those Tavern Days and the "War of the Cults" (Spammers, COMM, DF's, RT, etc), but that doesn't mean I feel that I have been left out and isolated. It's the member's prerogative which threads he wants to participate in or what kind of threads he wants to make.

As for SPAM, I would generally have the Forum Rules as the basis on just how far it is to be tolerated. I think there are different kinds of Spam: some are very much tolerated and acceptable (the "social spam"), others are downright "incomprehensibly unnecessary".

[Vicsun]

[QUOTE=dragon wench]I think this thread deserves a bump.

Why?
Because I'm deliberately reopening a can of worms of I raised in the Heathen Citadel the other night.

I commented that a large number of people who frequent the Succeeder Stronghold rarely post elsewhere.
They almost never venture their opinions on more serious life issues or topics outside of the Stronghold's cozy confines. And... they rarely (if ever) begin their own threads.

It's not as though SYM is a place where really hostile flaming is condoned. It's not as though most of the inhabitants of the SS are new anymore. Thus the insecurity and clannish behaviour make little sense.

I personally think spam threads that go on in perpetuity are rude, encourage cliquish behaviour and stifle SYM as a whole. Further, I would dearly love to see the old thread length limits that SYM used to have restored.

*dons asbestos flak jacket*[/QUOTE]

I don't necessarily disagree with what you're saying, but would like to know if you see the spam threads in which you didn't participate like The Heathen Citadel in a different light than spam threads you participated heavily in like The Flop House or your own Sanctuary of the Depraved. Has your view on them changed, and if so what promted the change?

[dragon wench]

@Vicsun,
I don't have a problem with spam threads necessarily. What I find disturbing, however, is when those posting in a particular spam thread rarely post anywhere else, or never start threads of their own

Certainly, I have participated heavily in various spam threads during my time here, I would not deny that at all. Moreover, I have been part of a faction, the DF, I admit this freely.

However, I have never been afraid to post around SYM as a whole, and I have interacted with many different people. I have started a wide variety of threads here, both serious and spam-oriented, you (or anybody else) can check my profile for confirmation.

So don't try pointing fingers at me O Master Waverly Wannabee; it doesn't work and you are firing blanks

[Vicsun]

[QUOTE=dragon wench]@Vicsun,
What I find disturbing, however, is when those posting in a particular spam thread rarely post anywhere else, or never start threads of their own[/QUOTE]
I'll honestly admit I didn't recognize half of the people who came to post here from their respective spam threads, and my monocle almost popped in surprise when I found out SF, SS, and SASDAFHJRS were born due to disagreements on the finer points of spam (think about that for just a second, there has apparently been an argument over how spam should be spammed - I'm sure there's some point to be made here).

That said, I don't see anything wrong with ignoring and being ignored by a subsection of the SYM populace, and don't really understand why you'd want them to start their own threads or post outside of their perpetual spam threads. If you'd like to tell me why you think they are obliged to participate more, I'm all ears


[quote="dragon wench]So don't try pointing fingers at me O Master Waverly Wannabee; it doesn't work and you are firing blanks[/quote"]
Aw, those jabbing remarks of yours cut right through my heart sometimes, you know.

[dragon wench]

I'll honestly admit I didn't recognize half of the people who came to post here from their respective spam threads, and my monocle almost popped in surprise when I found out SF, SS, and SASDAFHJRS were born due to disagreements on the finer points of spam (think about that for just a second, there has apparently been an argument over how spam should be spammed - I'm sure there's some point to be made here).

That said, I don't see anything wrong with ignoring and being ignored by a subsection of the SYM populace, and don't really understand why you'd want them to start their own threads or post outside of their perpetual spam threads. If you'd like to tell me why you think they are obliged to participate more, I'm all ears

Yeah, I was surprised to learn of the various disagreements myself. It's kind of like if an alien suddenly landed on earth thinking the members of a major religious creed were a united front, only to discover in total shock that they've actually been at war for millenia

To answer your question, I just feel that the people in question could contribute significantly to the forum as a whole. As I think I made clear in my earlier post, I feel that concentrating all conversation into a single thread stifles the vitality of SYM. I don't want to embark on a nostalgic "good old days" discussion, but it is true that there is not nearly the same diversity of threads that there once was.

Aw, those jabbing remarks of yours cut right through my heart sometimes, you know.

Oh of course I know

[TonyMontana1638]

[QUOTE=dragon wench]To answer your question, I just feel that the people in question could contribute significantly to the forum as a whole. As I think I made clear in my earlier post, I feel that concentrating all conversation into a single thread stifles the vitality of SYM. I don't want to embark on a nostalgic "good old days" discussion, but it is true that there is not nearly the same diversity of threads that there once was.
[/QUOTE]
Not to butt in on this little exchange here, but I agree with you DW on the point that it "stifles the vitality of SYM". Where I don't is that SS'ers "could contribute significantly to the forum as a whole", because we do contribute to the forum. Not only are many of us constant posters outside the thread, we also are contributing to the forum in our SS spamming: the SS, as were the SF and HC before it, is a launching point for many newer posters. Not only that, it does keep forum activity going, but just not quite on the level some of us would like (it's concentrated in one area). I too want more people to expand their SYM activity and not exclusively frequent the SS, but I'd rather have them inside their SS comfort zone than not at all if you get my meaning. I probably wouldn't be here discussing this if the SF hadn't have existed and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

[dragon wench]

[QUOTE=TonyMontana1638]Not to butt in on this little exchange here, but I agree with you DW on the point that it "stifles the vitality of SYM". Where I don't is that SS'ers "could contribute significantly to the forum as a whole", because we do contribute to the forum. Not only are many of us constant posters outside the thread, we also are contributing to the forum in our SS spamming: the SS, as were the SF and HC before it, is a launching point for many newer posters. Not only that, it does keep forum activity going, but just not quite on the level some of us would like (it's concentrated in one area). I too want more people to expand their SYM activity and not exclusively frequent the SS, but I'd rather have them inside their SS comfort zone than not at all if you get my meaning. I probably wouldn't be here discussing this if the SF hadn't have existed and I'm sure I'm not the only one.[/QUOTE]

You make some fair points Tony. But, respectfully, I disagree. I fail to see how focusing the majority of activity in a single thread contributes to the forum as a whole, it may as well be dead, because it amounts to the same thing.

And, not to appear callous, but I don't understand this concept of a "comfort zone." As I have stated previously, SYM is far more polite than many other internet communities. I have no intention of coddling newcomers and holding their hands, but I do try to be friendly and helpful when and where I can, I think that applies to most of us who have been here a long time.

Further, I don't really think long spam threads like the SS serve as a launching point, rather they seem to have become a cozy, hard-to-break habit.
Sure, there are some people who post regularly in the SS who have branched out, they know who they are, and my comments are not directed at them. But there is a large section of individuals who post nearly exclusively in the SS.

[Fiona]

On this I agree with Tony. It is a launch pad for some, and it is useful in itself. I enjoy the activity there and I also know I would visit less often but for the fact that there is usually at least something going on there if nowhere else. Course you could say that is chicken and egg, but I still like having it there. And when there are more people on it is more likely other threads will be active, but we seem to be thin on the ground quite a lot now, presumably for many reasons

[Phreddie]

[QUOTE=ik911]
I still think this is the most useless thread there is... I hope you all surprise me when I read on this tomorrow.

"We need to accept spam"
"We need to be kind to new members"
"We should all adapt"
"No-one should be as much as slightly arrogant"
"Bla bla bla"[/QUOTE]
... " No-one should be Human"

[Fiona]

No Phreddie. We are constrained to be tolerant and you have chosen the non-human route. But it is all about live and let live. I believe you have found a lot of acceptance here but I am surprised that you think it appropriate to proselytise

[dj_venom]

With some of the earlier points raised...

Yes, you may not know me, because when I contribute to a thread, I'll do it that night, no one replies (because of my timezone, few people are on until later). So I go to sleep, wake up the next morning. Now, 5/7 it's school, 1/7 it's sport, and then Sunday is my one free morning. As such, I can only get on in the afternoon in most circumstances. That results in my singular post either being responded to 3 pages earlier, or not at all. Then I've missed 3 pages worth, missed all the discussion, and missed a fair bit of it.

This doesn't stop me from contributing where I can, but just sometimes it's not all that easy to contribute when there's little to contribute too.

[And yes, it is morning, I'm on holidays ]

[Phreddie]

I was merely pointing out that we are human, and therefore we cant be perfect. I appreciate how I was almost immediatley was accepted in these forums, however I dont think that people should be forced to accept other people just because their new.... ok now im starting to sound like the ******* I normally am.... DISCLAIMER: This is not exactly what I think, but have thought it in the past, which is why I am bringing it into this discussion, to present a different side of an argument. *clears throat* Some people just wont like other people, personally I get along with every one here, no one bothers me, and I do my best not to bother others. However, there will be some people who just wont like others, and there is nothing we can do about it. Acceptance isnt something that should be forced, encouraged yes, but enforced? Never.

Also, I saw a complain earlier on about how the SS has developed into a sort of clique in which new people dont join and 'arent welcome'. Completely untrue. I have been relatively absent over the past few months, not posting/spamming as much as I used to in any of the forums I participate on, and when I occassionly come back for an intellectual discussion on the meaning of toe jelly in the SS I notice that there are several new faces who haved started posting in that thread recently. The SS isnt an xclusive group of new-age Spammers, its not evenr eally a group, not in the exclusive way in which COMM, Rolling Thunder, or the Heathens were. We have no slogans, no banners, no badges of honor or acronyms, we just spam, and we are open to everything and everyone. While I admit that many posters are probably scared away by the size of such threads, what would you have us do? abandon a thread after 150 posts and start a new one? Then all the 'serious posters' who never spam and are only here for a good mental work out would complain in this thread that the forum is taken up by too many spam threads and they can never find the threads they enjoy so much. I would almost go so far as to say that a favor is done to those who think Spam should be avoided by keeping all our spam in (mostly) one large place rather than litter the ground with our 'trash'. Thats all for now.

[Fiona]

@ DJ. You do have particular problems, but nevertheless you are all over the place. You do not stick to one thread, and much of what has been said here does not apply to you. Nevertheless it would be interesting to hear your views (if you have any) about the things which are disturbing DW and which caused her to bump this thread

@ Phreddie. I am sorry. I was being facetious and that is not really appropriate here. But it is Saturday night! On a serious note, no of course people shouldn't be accepted just because they are new.But I do believe there is scope to reach out to new people sometimes and when the opportunity arises it is to the credit of most people here that they do it. Maybe you don't agree, but it is important to help people in the early stages and then if you want you can judge after they are comfy

[Ravager]

For clarity's sake, I'd like to know whether I am one of these people everyone refers to as sticking to the SS.

[Lestat]

[QUOTE=Ravager]For clarity's sake, I'd like to know whether I am one of these people everyone refers to as sticking to the SS.[/QUOTE]For nebulousness's sake: I don't know. You venture out of the SS from time to time, at least more than others, but post mostly there.

[dj_venom]

Alright then, I didn't realise the thread bump stretched that far back.

@DW: We know the list of spam threads 'SS, HC, etc.' Now, I log onto Gamebanshee, and I look through the threads with new posts. I go down the list, until I find the most recent spam thread that has been posted in, then I choose that thread. I the thread that is being spammed in, and I go there. I don't boycott any threads because I don't think I'm not wanted in there, I boycott because all I will have to listen to in there will be the cicaddas chirping.

Now, on the other hand. When I first visited SYM, I never posted. I looked through the threads, HC being the most recent, and saw the posts. I saw all manner of things being thrown. People have strange stuff done. And much more freaky things. As such, I was scared off. I think the number of posts might have had something to do with my lack of posting. But not in the way you think. I am an old-school poster, I went to page one... read that. Then I thought, I have to read that many posts relating to this thing before I post... stuff that. Now, had I known that it's simply a place to come in and talk about what you want, not an issue, it might have helped.

So I don't think limiting posts will help, because I would see more than 10 pages and be reluctant to read through it all. So perhaps what would be in order is a guide for newbies... I'm serious.

*~*~*~*

Now, onto the second point, the reverse - lack of posting in other topics. As I mentioned earlier, I can only get one post in, then later when I come back, it's buried. That is one reason I might not post, because I may be misunderstood, and it would be too late to rectify it.

A second reason, I might not be in the mood. For the last week and a bit, my cat was in the vet, due to a very scary encounter with some flowers. I wasn't in the mood for posting, and posted a few times during that period. The simple explanation was that I didn't feel like it, and sometimes if someone comes on after a hard day at work, they might not feel like getting into a serious topic.

A third reason, and kind of a polar opposite. Often the serious threads are spammed (unless the no spam/lite spam/spam on topic etc.). This adds a lot more pages to the topic that people have to read and by the time they post it has become a strange contest of even stranger weapons.

*~*~*~*

The solution? Something that I mentioned here, it only came to me when posting, was the guide to SYM. I'm sure at sometime, someone made either a serious or a fake guide, but it was buried. No newbie is going to dig that up, so it won't help. Instead, I think we need one stickied, that lists the rules, explains how some of the stuff works (about actions being ** or whatever), lists the current spam threads and explains that what you can do, is basically anything). I think that if this was here, the new people could read it, gain an understand and then be able to fit in better, rather than being scared off.

Also, I thought of something else. We need the spam here, it's like a glue. I would visit SYM, but often I would forget because I would only visit to post in topics that were real. Then after I started spamming, I would visit, spam, and post in serious topics. We need the spam topics, as they are the glue. We need the serious topics, because they are whatever glue sticks to (glue can't stick to itself). We need the harmony, and we need our balance.

*~*~*~*

I am sorry if it seems I am rambling and am only writing things as I think of it... because I am. Hope my post is understood, because I think it is true.

@Phreddie: Ha, not immediately mate. I have this reaction, where if I read writing that doesn't follow all the formal English rules... it flicks a negative switch in my brain. Over that now, but not immediate...

[ik911]

OMG, did Ravager just come out of his lair to post in another thread?

Seriously though, Ravager, to answer your question and satisfy your curiousity, I've read only about 500 of your posts. Maybe if I grossly overestimate the number, I might get to 2000... That's less than 12 percent.

It's true: I don't read as much as I forget. Still, you posted 74,8% in the 3 mayor pubs. (I calculated it)

However, I don't put labels on people. I wouldn't call you a pub-sticker.