Druid question

[MuDvAyNe0305]

Do druids lose the ability to cast some cleric spells?If so which spells can't they cast?

[Curdis]

@MuDvAyNe0305,

The first answer is yes, and the second answer is quite a lot but they get at least three KILLER spells which clerics do not. The specifics are left as an exercise for the reader. - Curdis !

[DaJir]

Natures beauty, insects/creeping doom and iron skins. the rest beside wonderous recall are pretty much crap until ya get to high level stuff like the elemental prince summonings....

hey, i'm not a cleric/druid spell fan, so sue me.

The main stuff druids miss out on are pretty much the best cleric spells. Holy smite, animate dead, sunray and so on.

[UserUnfriendly]

think cleric=anti undead, demonic (bolt of glory is such a killer spell)

think druid=mage killer(creeping doom, natuers beauty)

someone made the case, well in my opinion that druid immunites at high level is so much better than the stinky symbol of the deity in tob...I have to see at least partial merit in that, as in watchers keep I went hand to hand with big baddie and saw half my party get poisoned, except driuid and pc with ring of gaxx..

I still think the ultimate druid is jahiera, as cernd lacks greater whirlwind and this makes elemental transform and werewolf forms really killer spells...cernd is such a loser!!!

[myrophine]

I'm trying to gather information about druids (from SoA to ToB)...

So I decided to add it to this thread in case future searches come up with this one (like I did).

I have played with Jaheira was dissapointed with Jaheira because as my 2nd fighter she was usually 'busy' and never cast her spells except ironskin and maybe heal/summon elemental. In the beginning I used woodland nymphs to face packs of humans and insect plague on casters (also nymphs as a sneaky 'remove spell deflection/reflection' She took so long to level up that I never had 7th level spells before I got bored with her. Of course i COULD make her the 3rd fighter but I like casters better and run into personality conflicts that way anyhow.

Cernd: I was so excited to get greater werewolf then discovered his paws were +2 and he couldn't regenerate! Also he could be hit by normal weapons

So other option:

vanilla druid (i know totemic is better btw except as a pack mule)
totemic druid
dual class fighter druid
******** berserker druid
******** kensai druid
******** wizard slayer druid
avenger

What do people think about these options? I tried kensai/druid but it was a pain in the buttoximos to cast barkskin for EVERY battle.

Now I'll focus the issue to the avenger who I am intrigued with. How fast are the shapeshifts obsolete and are any other than the sword spider useful for ANY reason (speed, stealth, special use)?

Heres my take on the spells

1 chromatic orb - good especially if you like greater malison and doom (and have other casters with these spells plus chaos spook etc)

2 web - some say a versatile entangle...but i say its good because it gives you more chromatic orbs (less entangle).

3 lightning - these seriously SCARE me. Any advice on how to target these without killling my own people. Even if you CAN get raised/ressurected i bet it aint to fun...

4 improved invis - i WISH it were ice storm still it makes the druid more relilient against mages.

5 chaos - good spell but competes with insects plague and skins

6 chain lightning - competes with heal and elementals ALSO damage is a reflection of level and druidic leveling is funny. At early levels 11 this will kick ass, but at like...15th casting it on a pack of giants will only make them angry and you will have a running druid.

myrophine

[Coot]

The berserker/druid is one of the most powerful dualclasses possible, but a berserker/cleric is probably better.
As for the druid kits: I've never been a fan of druids. Roleplayingwise I could get why they'd want to protect nature and all that, but their 'there must be balance!' philosophy is so silly. It also leans heavily on the alignment system, which is one of the weakest elements of the game.
Powerwise they don't hold much attraction for me either: they can't fight very well and their array of spells is weaker than that of clerics and mages, especially at lower levels. However, at higher levels they do get Creeping Doom and Nature's Beauty and some neat summons. Creeping Doom is great. I put up with Cernd for an entire game because I love that spell. Powerful enemies run impotently around going 'owowow' when hit by those insects.

Still, straight druids aren't very powerful or much fun. The kits don't compensate for any of that.
The Shapeshifter ability sounds nicer than it is. The werewolf form isn't powerful, useful, versatile or interesting at all.
The Totemic druid has the summons, but those aren't very useful or interesting either.
The shapeshift options for the Avenger are the nicest ones because they're all so different. Once you add the Cloak of the Sewers you'll have a nice range of somewhat-useful -but-at least-varied changeling-choices. The added mage spells, however, seem a bit odd and, again, not very useful.

[masteralef]

Of course, for ultimate cheese, go for Ranger (dual or multi) to cleric. That'd give you all those druid spells...and all the cleric ones, too!

[Lasher]

That's not too cheesy... I can think of some worse ones... say kensai/theif, or kensai anything for that matter... Someone "dedicated" to the sword should not turn around and be "deticated" to the arcane... and the honor of the kensai combined with the.... dishonor of the thief? Gimme a break...

[myrophine]

I think berserker druid would be cool role playing wise as well. I feel a berserker is kind of teutonic in feel and the druids fit in just fine with berserk warrior. Cleric would too but not of helm or lathander...talos definately and tempus if they would have that.

I don't like the shapeshifter druid really because the greater werewolf...well its not bad but you DON'T get the abilities of a true greater werewolf and the weidu mod is kind of cheesy for my taste at least.

I like the Avenger and am having a good time. I'm at 13th level and have just reached the point where the shapechange is only for fun (or to have 5 attacks with normal weapons vs. pfmw but why not cast insect plague instead or have a mage summon sword spider?)

on the ranger/cleric... I think its cheesy but then again I use shadowkeeper at times to give multiplayer parties special abilities etc. The ranger/cleric reminds me of the old cheese with rpgs where you could dual class a ranger into a mage and there was a bug that allowed you to cast in full plate!

(THE BELOW DISCUSSES THE AVENGER SO DON'T READ UNLESS YOU WANT TO HEAR MY AVENGER STRATEGIES)

The chromatic orbs are nice as long as you have some other priests with doom handy. Even if they make the save they still have -2 to everything and -1 to 12 hp. I just need greater malison and death spell and I'll have a strategic set.

The lightning bolt and imp invis combine into a POWERFUL strategy indoors. Cast prot lightning (druids have less to 'give up' in memorizing this spell than mages) then cast imp invis sneak up on anoying enemy next to a wall or in confined space (this is a special ops mission...every other party member must MI, min/maj globe, spell prot evocation etc or else be far away) then cast lightning bolts at enemy bouncing it off walls repeatedly.

web can be useful with chaos... first cast chaos (bc -4 save AND incapacitates with no resave) then cast web to control the unpredictability of the chaosed enemies. Instead of 1 breaking through and chopping away at you they will be webbed all in a clump presumably attacking eachother. Now follow up with archery/area of effect/redundant disabling (stinking cloud, extra webs, insect plague, horror, glitterdust, greater malison)

Note: if outdoors the above strategy is really effective with call lightning. instead of wasting spells, arrows, and time one call lightning (3rd level) plus a chaos/web will be hammering away at trapped enemies for quite awhile and doing heavy damage.

Chain lightning? I think its kind of sucky except for party friendly cleanup of wounded hordes or disrupting casters. But fire elementals and heal are still good so its not a big loss.

[CFM]

Yes, Druids lose several good priest spells. But more importantly, Druids gain several good and unique druidic spells, and gain the shapechange ability.

[QUOTE=myrophine]I like the Avenger and am having a good time. I'm at 13th level and have just reached the point where the shapechange is only for fun[/QUOTE]
Me too. I played thru the whole Saga with a Cleric (Priest of Lathander in SoA/ToB), and if I ever play again, I'd go with a Fighter/Mage bad guy, or a neutral Avenger Druid.

I think the appeal of Druids is 1) "nature themed" unique priest spells, and 2) "nature themed" shapechange abilities.

Avenger Druids are even more appealing, imo, because their repertoire is enhanced with stronger shapes and "nature themed" wizard spells.

Cast spells from a distance, or engage in melee via shapechange... Druids have a nice "balance" of abilities.

The Bad News: the shapechange ability is a little (a lot?) underpowered. If its primary function is for melee combat, then shapechange forms should be able to hang with the combat abilities of other melee-combative classes of comparable level.

Just a thought: maybe the shapechange ability could be more varied? Maybe shapechange into a snake, and make poison more deadly based on level (BG1 poison was trouble, BG2 poison not). Or maybe shapechange into a rat, confering 95% Move Silently/Hide in Shadows. A bit of a stretch... but we are talking about a CRPG, based on D&D.

My experience with Jaheira: she was always MUCH more effective swinging a scimitar, than she was shapechanged, even with the Elemental Transformation HLA in ToB. Maybe because she's multi-fighter? Most others post that Cernd's wolf form takes a nose-dive in effectiveness in the second half of SoA (compared to other melee-type characters).

Melee combat with Druids should be more of a decision, imo. It's a shame that the Druid shapechange ability, after a certain point, is mostly used "for fun". I think the Druid is a really interesting and unique class. Maybe it'd be more appealing to the masses if the shapechange forms had more "teeth", so to speak.

I love you, Bioware. But you could've did just a tiny bit better with Druids.