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Cionaoith
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Post by Cionaoith »

At 210 Intellect, all skill advancements are free. That's the goal for my elf male. The plan is to play through the game multiple times in order to get there; every relic turned in is +3, so it will take some doing, but the alternative - gaining enough advance points to get there - would take so much longer.

How much longer?

Well, I currently have over 29 million unspent advance points at level 96 (there really isn't a whole lot of need to spend them), and Intellect is at 153 with four relics still to turn in on this play-through. For those of you keeping count, that will leave me with Intellect 162, which is 48 points - four play-throughs - to go to reach 210 (no +3 for the ring). (I had trained Intellect to 114 on my first play-through, leaving 96 to earn by turning in relics in subsequent play-throughs.)

Something caught my attention when I was playing earlier today, though, that might be telling of just how much longer it would take to earn enough advance points to reach Intellect 210. After freeing Davenmoor, I noticed that I had Honor 209. How much would it take to get to Honor 210?

978,355,776 advance points. :eek:

Yeah.

So, anyway, I thought that might be interesting to share. :cool:
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Post by Iceman1963 »

Interesting!!

I never thought to play a char over after I have completed the game just deleted it and made a new one. now makes me wonder how powerful of a character I would have had if I had stuck with the original one I had first finished the game with back in 2005. Now have a new goal to see how high I can go before everything stops working lol. :eek:
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Post by Lady Kate »

Dex?

How did you handle the problem with Dex being increased over 100? I haven't experienced this yet, but just from reading the messages, the game interpretes dex 100 = 00? Did you just edit it down/up with the game editor?

..and did you manage to get to 210 for intelligence? :-)
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Post by Cionaoith »

My progress has been slow - especially since I am now in school. I'm still on the same play-through that I was on when I posted this topic.

My current play-through will put Strike over 100. I have over 30 million advance points saved up, and my plan is to start pumping Dexterity before I turn in the next relic. Hopefully, I can bring my Strike rating back up to 30-40. I haven't used the editor on this character, which is currently at level 102. I won't use the editor on any character after level 25, because 25 is the highest the editor can seem to go.

Edit: Just a few things worth noting:

I bought a new computer, which has completely changed the game for me. For one, my old computer is a 6-year-old laptop, and barely ran this game. So, obviously, everything is faster and smoother now. Second, the game isn't as dark for some reason; I can see everything very well, and the visuals are really quite good (with all graphical settings maxed).

The fact that the game runs faster is very apparent in that I just finished the shadow ruins in just over an hour; it usually takes me nearly two hours. I entered the ruins having just attained level 102, and am now about 1/4 of the way through 108.

A cheat has just surfaced that Is very tempting. Honor is sitting at 221, and the cost for the 222 point is -2,047,294,720. Yes, that means that, if I "buy" the 222nd point, I will gain over 2 billion advance points. I'm going to go ahead and save here, and see what the consensus is on this. Should I cheat? By the way, I currently have 38,262,445 advance points.
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Post by Lady Kate »

Cionaoith wrote:A cheat has just surfaced that Is very tempting. Honor is sitting at 221, and the cost for the 222 point is -2,047,294,720. Yes, that means that, if I "buy" the 222nd point, I will gain over 2 billion advance points. I'm going to go ahead and save here, and see what the consensus is on this. Should I cheat? By the way, I currently have 38,262,445 advance points.
I'm afraid you lost me completely with this paragraph and I've been waiting (breathlessly :-) ) to read if anyone else understood this. I don't really understand how you would 'buy' the 222nd point, thus 'gaining' 2 billion advance points. I'm assuming this must have something to do with a 'cheat', but I still don't understand how by buying another point, you 'gain' advance points. (Points you then would be able to apply to other statistics?)

I don't really want to know about this particular cheat, just because I'm still enjoying making new characters and seeing how far and high I can get their stats on the FIRST run-through. :-) I can't say "without cheating", because of all the help I've had from this forum, but I can say 'without the editor'. (Though I enjoy the editor and am so pleased to have the opportunity to use it, try the different skills and see the different weapons and artifacts, etc..)
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Post by swcarter »

Essentially, the cost of adding another point has gotten so high that the game can't handle the size of the number, and so it thinks it's a negative value instead. That means if Cionaoith purchases the point, the game will subtract the cost from his character, but since it's a negative cost, he might actually receive 2 billion points.

In other words, Heuristic Park never intended anybody to reach an attribute value of 221.

SWC
Sir Edmund: "Should you obey the lord who asks you to put a village of innocents to the torch? Is that chivalrous? Is it noble?"
Me: "It's a great way to get promoted, I know that much."
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Post by Cionaoith »

The game glitched for some reason. I haven't cheated (at least, not yet - but it's getting more tempting), but Honor is now up to 230, and the gain over 10 billion.

The strike bug hit, but not very hard. All those saved advance points bought over 40 Dexterity points - plus the 9 for turning in the relics. I'm using rings, trinkets and weapons to increase my Strike rating, which is at about 157 now. The only enemies that are really a pain right now are slimes. I can't hit slimes for anything, so I use magic against them, but I'm still primarily a melee character.

I just restarted, and blew through the sewers in about 5 minutes. The game goes pretty quick when you know that there isn't anything left that is worth adding to your inventory. :laugh:

The final two things that might be worth noting: demon realm is still very dark. Next time, I'll adjust the brightness levels before going there. Second, my character is now level 112. Next time I play, I'll try to remember to grab a few pictures.
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Post by Wulf »

From what I've tried and subjected the game and some characters to, the underlying problem of the strike bug is that the hit value is capped at 100; however, the game only seems to read two digits to determine the hit value. At 100, the initial 1 appears to be ignored, leaving you with 00. Thus, 99 is the maximum usable value. If the cap was at 99 rather than 100, you could take DEX anywhere, it would simply be capped at the maximum readable value. I have absolutely no clue where that 100 is, if I did, it would most likely be a matter of changing 64h into 63h to get rid of that bug.
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Post by file read error »

Wow, this 210 intelligence phenomenon sounds interesting... I had already expected there might be some sort of rollover if adv point costs become too high, but I haven't ever reached such a point in the game. Neither did I personally ever get any stat higher than about 155 because I also don't use characters again after beating the game. But the strike bug, arrrrrrrrgh, that darn strike bug! I'd so love getting it too for once, but I just don't! What the heck am I supposed to do, I had a Strike rating higher than 100 several times already but I never had a strike bug! Especially the following would be sooooo much fun...
The only enemies that are really a pain right now are slimes. I can't hit slimes for anything, so I use magic against them, but I'm still primarily a melee character.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I was laughing for minutes on end when I read this! But alas, funny stuff like that never happens to me :( ... When one of my characters reaches a strike rating of 100 (or sometimes also if I'm getting close to 100), enemies become a bit harder to hit, but not so much harder... what happens is that maybe one out of 50 strikes produces a gray "parry dust cloud" and sounds a CLANG as if I had hit a shield (even if the enemy doesn't have a shield, such as a ravenous bat or something). But even with a strike rating of 100 I still hit 49 out of 50 strikes, so I'm really at a loss to explain this now because it seems everyone else is lucky to get the strike bug, only I don't! What am I doing wrong?

Cionaoith my friend (you're the one who boosted my confidence back in 2008, enabling me to actually finish my Minimum Urgoth character, so I have to be forever grateful!), maybe you can help me to get the strike bug - yes, I know, I'm sounding insane right now, wanting to get a bug that is annoying the hell out of everyone else - since you seem to have a great deal of knowledge about this bug, I'm asking you: What is the exact Strike rating you had when the bug was appearing the first time, and do you think it also has something to do with the Dexterity statictic (maybe Dexterity has to be 100, not Strike)? Maybe that way it would be easier for me to finally get that bug on my character! :)
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Post by Cionaoith »

file read error wrote:(maybe Dexterity has to be 100, not Strike)
You might be on to something there; I've actually never played around with the strike bug to find out exactly when it occurs. My current character's strike rating was sitting at 99 when I pumped nearly 40 million advance points into Dexterity, taking it from 80-something to almost 130. I'm focused on finishing the goal for this character (210 Int.), so I won't be able to do strike bug testing any time soon.
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Post by Cionaoith »

The number has gone down - now I'll only get about 700 million, apparently. :laugh:
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Post by file read error »

You might be on to something there; I've actually never played around with the strike bug to find out exactly when it occurs. My current character's strike rating was sitting at 99 when I pumped nearly 40 million advance points into Dexterity, taking it from 80-something to almost 130. I'm focused on finishing the goal for this character (210 Int.), so I won't be able to do strike bug testing any time soon.
Okay, so I'll try it out myself with my new character (it's that dwarf again, I'm starting over) and increase dexterity gradually, maybe that way I can finally get that bug myself and tell everyone when exactly it will occur. By the way, can you just "buy a point of honor for a negative value" and then put everything into intelligence? Maybe that would speed up the process of reaching 210 INT ;) .
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Post by Cionaoith »

That's what is so tempting. Especially with Intellect costing 21m right now; 700m would be a lot of progress. This bug keeps popping up, too - so it's not like it would be a one-time deal, if I choose to use it.

The thing is, I haven't cheated with this character. Well, not too much, anyway. ;) I gave some weapons and spells that aren't in the game (or - are not available because of my class) to my restart character and had him sell them to different shops so that this character could buy them. But that wasn't until I had already been through the game twice, so it was time to try something different. Also, it is a lot of fun to use the branch that the trees throw at you.

Also, you might notice that I don't have a Knave of (x) heraldry. I found out on my second time through that I should not go back to the House of Tiger after finishing the tiger quest anymore. I don't know if the Knave of Swords heraldry is still active on this character or not, but it was when the House of Tiger forced me to take another heraldry that I lost it. And I'm not going to risk any of my other heraldries to go back to the tarot reader to get the Knave of Swords back.
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Post by file read error »

The thing is, I haven't cheated with this character. Well, not too much, anyway.
No bargain cheat? Of course I would never use that one, but 99% of all players do, so I generally expect everyone to use it...

And I've been thinking about the strike bug. Maybe it's difficulty level dependant, so the bug might only show up in wussie mode (=when the game difficulty is set to something other than hard). If that's the case then I obviously cannot get the strike bug because I'm always playing with hard/more settings. I couldn't even change that if I wanted to because the sliders are sticking in place and rusted solid so they won't move to the left! :D But if you got that bug while playing on hard then I really can't explain why I don't get it...
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Post by Cionaoith »

I always play on hard difficulty, and never less than normal spawn rates (now that I have a computer that can handle the game, lol).

I have actually never used the bargain cheat - at least, not in the classic sense. Yes, I sell things to shops for more than I would have to pay for them, but I don't buy them back and repeat. Money is not hard to come by in this game, and it's not like you need thousands of cataclysms to get through a single dungeon. Granted, I have stockpiled 200 of them, but I pretty much only use cataclysm on bees. :mad: I hate bees.

I'm going to see what I can add to my inventory next game in order to skip Arindale. As much as I like the advance points gained in the trial of elders, it's just wasted time at this point. So, I'm going to put the mirror and ring of talendor in my restart character's inventory, and see how that works for me. Right now, I am in the Hall of Lords, just after beating Fathien; between the trail and Ulm, I could save a little over an hour each time playing through. That's three hours by time I get to 210 Intellect (if it works).
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Post by file read error »

I always play on hard difficulty, and never less than normal spawn rates (now that I have a computer that can handle the game, lol).
Okay, so actually I should be able to get the strike bug too... And you're saying currently you can hit everything except slimes? Does this mean that out of 50 swings you'll whiff at a slime 49 times or something? Currently I have a strike rating of about 60 on my new dwarf (yes, been playing all day, now I just finished the Elders Trial, more about that below), and somehow he still whiffs a lot... :confused: shouldn't a strike rating of 60 be more than enough to reliably hit things???
I have actually never used the bargain cheat - at least, not in the classic sense. Yes, I sell things to shops for more than I would have to pay for them, but I don't buy them back and repeat. Money is not hard to come by in this game, and it's not like you need thousands of cataclysms to get through a single dungeon. Granted, I have stockpiled 200 of them, but I pretty much only use cataclysm on bees. :mad: I hate bees.
Yeah, the same applies to my brother too, he also hates bees, and he always says "stupid bees always hit me once, poisoning me immediately"... Personally, I hate spiders much more than bees because they're so damn fast! They're the only enemy type in the entire game that moves faster than the player, plus they have lots of hit points, do lots of damage and can spawn in large amounts... and to top it off, they don't even give that much experience! About the cataclysm, what I'd like to know, can you actually have the Blade of Death AND cataclysm by doing the Tomb of Souls several times (since you're doing several playthroughs)?
I'm going to see what I can add to my inventory next game in order to skip Arindale. As much as I like the advance points gained in the trial of elders, it's just wasted time at this point.
How about just ignoring the elders and run past everything? Would that make it faster?

Well, currently it seems it will still take some time until I can do strike bug testing... before the Trial of Elders I put a lot of points into Strength in order to be able to kill Elder Kyusho faster, then I killed the other three elders (the wizard was totally owned by six angelic avengers whom I summoned) and put everything into Vitality because I want to bargain with Voraatus for Vitality, so I'm not going to put my points into anything but Vitality for the next ten level ups! But maybe after finishing the Voraatus deal I will increase dexterity, and maybe I'll get the bug.

The images show Elder Kyusho getting his butt kicked, some interesting monster spawns (yes, I have modded the game to increase monster mob sizes, that way I got 13 chunnelers to spawn at once) and Fuiban Yi's new Ronin bodyguards (Staroxia look-alikes who are laggy as hell, they can bring a Cray to its knees).
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Post by Cionaoith »

file read error wrote:Okay, so actually I should be able to get the strike bug too... And you're saying currently you can hit everything except slimes? Does this mean that out of 50 swings you'll whiff at a slime 49 times or something?
I'd say that, out of 100, I'd be lucky to hit once.
Currently I have a strike rating of about 60 on my new dwarf (yes, been playing all day, now I just finished the Elders Trial, more about that below), and somehow he still whiffs a lot... :confused: shouldn't a strike rating of 60 be more than enough to reliably hit things???
I start to notice reliable accuracy at around 45, if I remember right.

About the cataclysm, what I'd like to know, can you actually have the Blade of Death AND cataclysm by doing the Tomb of Souls several times (since you're doing several playthroughs)?
Yes. I got the Blade of Death the first time through, and cataclysm the second. Every time through since (I've completed the game five times so far with this character), I've grabbed the Blade of Death, because (I believe) I get more money with that option.
How about just ignoring the elders and run past everything? Would that make it faster?
Yes, but not as fast as bypassing the trials altogether. ;)
The images show Elder Kyusho getting his butt kicked, some interesting monster spawns (yes, I have modded the game to increase monster mob sizes, that way I got 13 chunnelers to spawn at once) and Fuiban Yi's new Ronin bodyguards (Staroxia look-alikes who are laggy as hell, they can bring a Cray to its knees).
Those are some interesting modifications! Would you happen to know how to double monsters' HP? Currently, about 80% of the enemies I encounter are killed with < 3 hits - even without getting a critical hit. Of course, that would make the PITA demon in the Tomb of Souls nearly impossible, so I guess I'd have to stock up on some more cataclysms. :mischief:
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Post by file read error »

I'd say that, out of 100, I'd be lucky to hit once.
Really? Damn! I'd so like to get that bug too for once, and see whether I can find a way to make my character hit more (maybe with the Rune Strike spell?)... gonna have to play more to find out...
I start to notice reliable accuracy at around 45, if I remember right.
Well, against lower level monsters I actually do hit reliably, but against Elder Kyusho, Fire Drakes and similar monsters my guy is still whiffing a lot! How much more strike do I need?
Yes. I got the Blade of Death the first time through, and cataclysm the second. Every time through since (I've completed the game five times so far with this character), I've grabbed the Blade of Death, because (I believe) I get more money with that option.
Is it also possible to do the Voraatus Bargain several times where he increases one attribute and lowers all others? Would that make reaching 210 INT easier?
Those are some interesting modifications! Would you happen to know how to double monsters' HP? Currently, about 80% of the enemies I encounter are killed with < 3 hits - even without getting a critical hit. Of course, that would make the PITA demon in the Tomb of Souls nearly impossible, so I guess I'd have to stock up on some more cataclysms.
Currently I didn't do so yet, but I think I know how it works... wait a moment, let me check my hex editing notes...

*edit* okay, found it: of course I don't know everything, but some offsets I have for you, feel free to experiment. But be sure to backup game files in case anything goes wrong! Monster modding is done by modifying the D6MONS.DAT file, which can be done with a hex editor (I recommend using XVI32). Find the name of the monster you want to modify (example: Brimstone Hellcat) and place the cursor on the first character of the monster's name (in this case it would be the B). Then use the jump function to go down by a certain amount of bytes, I listed below the offsets for various monster stats.
+116 -> monster hit points as a hexadecimal value, a Fiend of Ghazbuul has 8000 and Elder Kyusho has 5000 HP, for example. Killer Bees only have 8 but I think by putting the game to "hard" difficulty this value is multiplied by a certain number. Feel free to increase this value for any monster.
+124 -> Seems to be the Armor Rating of a monster. Once I set this to a very high value for a Goblin Mage and actually experienced sort of a "strike bug": out of 100 melee attacks I whiffed at the Goblin Mage 99 times! :D
+156 -> Average amount of experience gained for killing the monster. This value can vary slightly between monsters of the same kind, and it is increased by a certain percentage if difficulty level is set to hard. I'd recommend increasing the value for the Elven Wizard (last Elders Trial boss) because it's just annoying that he gives only so little experience even though he's the hardest boss.
+162 -> Treasure Class (determines what the monster will drop upon death), this actually links to D6TREAS.DAT entries.
+176 -> Determines what the monster looks like, by changing this value I managed to create the "Female Ronin" and certain other female enemies who now look like certain NPCs.
+316 -> ??? seems to be 01 in most cases
+320 -> Group Size of the monster: higher values will produce larger mobs of this type of monster if it is spawned. Thieves, Goblins and certain other enemies have high values. If the random encounters are set to "more" it seems this value is multiplied, making for even bigger groups.
+324 -> not sure about this, it might determine whether the monster can spawn extra "minion" monsters or not, it seems to work correctly if this is set to 00, but for a Thief Brigand it is set to 01 and they can still spawn extra monsters (like normal thieves)...
+328 -> Chance to spawn extra monsters, ranging from 00h to 64h where 64h is 100 percent.
+330 and +332 -> Those are the extra monsters that can spawn. For example, Thief Brigands have this set to the ID numbers of normal thieves or grave robbers, while Fuiban Yi has a Dark Ronin ID number in here. This is how I activated "rare" monster spawns like Gazers or Slime Grannies. And it's also the reason why Fuiban Yi always has Dark Ronins accompanying him and Harrowbark Wandles often have bats or spiders with them.
+334 -> Sets the sounds a monster will make. The ID numbers can be found in D6MONSND.DAT (I think that's how the file is called) but some of them I have written down: 51h = Twisted Sylph, 13h = Goblin, 18h = generic male NPC (thieves, drey elfes etc.), 69 = generic female NPC (Bladewitches, Lady Loriea etc.)
Every D6MONS.DAT entry is 340 bytes in length, and the first one appears at offset 130900 (decimal). Everything before that is from another game, Wizards and Warriors, it seems Dungeon Lords was created based on that game, but none of those W&W entries are used in the game. I also don't think they will work.

If you want to change what a monster will drop upon death it can be helpful to change the D6TREAS.DAT file. Every entry in there has a length of 200 bytes and the first item entry is +12 bytes from the start of a treasure class. New entries can also be added, and somewhere in there a byte that determines the chance of actually acquiring an item exists as well (it can go from 00h to 64h, with 64h meaning 100 percent chance).

For a list of items, monsters and their offsets/ID values, check the excel sheets that I attached. The remarks are in German because actually I only wrote that sheet for myself, but those remarks aren't actually important.
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Post by Lady Kate »

Hex Editor

You're making me think that I want to learn just what you guys are talking about and how I can do this myself........

.........

Alright, the moment has slipped away. :-)

(Seriously, I may have to take the time to figure this all out. Love the pictures, thank you very much!! Inspired me to change the brightness of my own game and now I can actually SEE things! :-) )
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Post by file read error »

You're making me think that I want to learn just what you guys are talking about and how I can do this myself
actually it's not too hard, even if it looks hard at first glance. But what I'd really like to to is change item properties (e.g. change the amount of +speed a Charm of Night gives) and I just can't find the file that holds item stats! There is D6ITEM.DAT (or similar) but it contains only Wizards&Warriors items that don't appear in Dungeon Lords! Where the **** does the game get all the stats of item from? There has to be a file somewhere that controls this... and I would be soooooo glad if someone could tell me which one it is!

Well, anyway, I played a little bit more with my current character and assigned a lot of ADV points into Vitality. I also finished Fargrove, so the next task is going to Mara, but when I finally reached the Northlands Moon Bridge (there were a ton and a half of Borloths, Dementors, Ice Wyrms, Goblin Warlocks and Ogre Trolls spawning everywhere and because some of them give good experience I had to kill all of them which took quite some time), I noticed that I had been so stupid and forgot to activate the Fargrove moon bridge when I was there! Now what should I do, laugh uproarishly or bang my head against the wall? :laugh: :mad: Well, I think I'll just teleport to Arindale to sell my stuff, Orlan Drey gives more $$$ for Staves of Burning than Grunmeir does, anyway... and then I'll go to Grymlok, sell him my only Spellbook of Whirlwind and hopefully he will afterwards sell endless amounts back to me. (No, I'm not using the bargain cheat. But I have tens of thousands of gold pieces saved up in order to buy more spells.)

[url="http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/276/dlords2010030416020487.jpg"]This[/url] is an image of me battling Myrus Fathien at Ulm. I actually can't believe I'm still using that sword pro undead, I've been using it for eons already! When looking very closely one can see a Gileah look-alike behind Myrus, she is actually a cloned Drey Elf and just looks differently (and of course she has a female voice). And that brings me to another point that bugs me.

The problem is that enemies are hitting me way too often! Meanwhile I'm dressed in plate armor from top to bottom (except the helm which was a useless Grim helm and now it's an Imperial helm which isn't much better), and I've got 11 points in the Parry skill and 36 points of the Parry stat, but the enemies are still hitting me all the damn time! For testing purposes I just placed my guy next to a Gileah with the rest of the opposition waiting behind a door (for some reason they are unable to open it but the Barrowgrim soldiers in Davenmor's manor were chasing me through many doors when I got there later), and I wanted to know how often the Gileah girl was hitting me. Well... despite an armor rating of 65 and the above mentioned parry skill/stat, she was hitting me with about 80% chance, four out of five attacks were penetrating my armor! By the way, I changed some melee attack animations in my game, and this causes Sister Gileah to always throw a kick instead of swinging her sword. And because of the fact that I was getting hit way more often than I should, she kicked my nuts flat (killed my character) after a short while.

Cionaoith, since you told me your current character is primarily a melee attacker, I'm asking you: is there any way to get hit less by enemy melee attacks? How often are they hitting you, and how much armor class/parry/whatever do you have? When I run into a pack of rabid rats, for example, I am getting hit all the damn time while I'm slowly swinging my sword pro undead at them (my god, that's a really slow attack animation), and more often than not, they're interrupting my combos! Is it the same for you, or are you getting hit much less often? :confused:

Here, take a look at my [url="http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/8664/dlords2010030422233589.jpg"]useless midget[/url]. This screen shot shows his current stats which aren't that great. By the way, increasing Vitality from 95 to 96 would cost almost 300'000 ADV points already.

Okay, maybe I should get back to the actual topic of this thread... so, Cionaoith, are you getting close to 210 INT already? And what I'd really like to know: what are you going to do if you reach that value? Pump your skills out the wazoo? Somewhere I've heard rumors that there is a hidden cap for skill levels, meaning after a certain number of skill points (was it 20?) the skills would stop getting better, is that true? Because that would be very bad, considering how expensive it is normally to increase a skill from 25 to 26, even with learning bonuses. Maybe you can find out whether there is such a cap, by increasing your skills for free when you reach 210 INT! :)
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