Most damage

Magior · Post by **Magior** » Fri Sep 21, 2001 8:25 am

Let's consider a 40th level Kensai wielding the Staff of the Ram. Let's assume his strength would be 24 (fire giant belt + wrath tear reward). Let's calculate how much damage can he dish out per hit

22 Max damage from the staff (KAI)
+ 3 grandmastery
+12 Strength bonus
+13 Kensai Bonus (+1 to hit-and-dam per 3 levels)
=50 damage per hit

The actual average damage per hit:

1/20 * 0 + 17/20 * 50 + 2/20 * 100 = 55
(miss) (normal hit) (critical)

Now, how much damage/round does he cause with greater whirlwind?

Yeah, that character has a sucky AC. Then, let's take a dual Kensai/Thief level 25/26. His AC doesn't suck at all with Use Any Item. He could put a Holy Symbol of (insert a deity here) to his finger to raise his strength to the supremum, 25. He would deal:

24 Kai, Carsomyr +6, againist chaotic evil
+ 3 grandmastery
+ 2 gauntlets of extraordinary specialisation
+14 strength bonus
+ 8 kensai bonus
=51 damage/hit

With the staff of the Ram, that would be 'only' 49/hit.

That would make 56 damage/hit on average. (54 with the staff).

Can anyone come up with anything to beat that?

For reference, I'll calculate Sarevok's damage with the Ravager +6. And the chance of vorpal hit with greater whirlwind:

11.5 Average weapon damage
+3 grandmastery
+2 gauntlets, as above
+10 from strength 22, can't get it any higher
=25.5 damage/hit

On average: 0*1/20 + 25.5*17/20 + 51*2/20 = 28

Deathbringer assault is 200 damage, 5% chance. 10 average deathbringer damage/hit.

Let's assume the enemy we're hitting has 5% chance of failing save. Poison is 9.5 damage on average, 5% chance. 0.5 Poison damage/hit.

Adding and multiplying gives a sorry 385 damage/round with greater whirlwind. Chance of opponent having a vorpal death:
1 - (0.9)^10 = .6513

385 damage and ~2/3 chance of decapitation. This is not bad, either.

Kovi · Post by **Kovi** » Fri Sep 21, 2001 11:59 am

I would opt for Kensai/Thief with dual wield, Improved Haste, Kai and Assassination.

Bruce Lee · Post by **Bruce Lee** » Fri Sep 21, 2001 12:09 pm

Can you backstab with staff of the ram? Meaning does all damage except strenght bonus get multiplied?

MegaToerist · Post by **MegaToerist** » Sat Sep 22, 2001 12:48 am

There is (was? perhaps the FixPack got it fixed) a bug with the Staff of the Ram: the piercing damage was not included in the effect. After adding it, it was a seperate line in the dialogue window, so those 4 points of damage don't get multiplied.

I did a backstab with my Fighter/Thief, and got the nice amount of 230 damage (I had a critical too

)

IMO, One of the deadlyest combos is A Fighter/Thief with specialization in Staves, two stars in Two-Handed Weapon Style, wielding Staff of the Ram. Add in Assasination or Greater Whirlwind, and we're talking business

.

TC, Geert

Magior · Post by **Magior** » Sat Sep 22, 2001 1:04 am

I could calculate damages done with Assassination/Imp haste with different weapon combinations, if someone's interested and could provide me backtstab multipliers for both Thieves and Assassins through levels 1-40 (haven't been able to find this info anywhere).

Magior · Post by **Magior** » Sun Sep 23, 2001 10:10 am

Okay, let's take another try. First, I'll see what will Kovi's suggestion does: a duel-wielding level 25/26 imp. hasted Kensai/Thief.

I'm quite sure the most damaging 1-hand weapon with assassination againist 'normal' enemies is Hindo's Doom +4, with 14 base maximum (none of the 13-doing weapons have high enough elemental damage to make up for the 5-point cap 5x damage multiplier makes in Hindo's Doom's favor). Off-hand weapon should be Scarlet ninja-to, being the most damaging of the extra-attack weapons. Add improved haste and gauntlets of exrta spec, and this character will have 8 attacks with main hand and 2 attacks with off hand each round. Calculations:

Hindo's Doom

14 Base with Kai
+3 Grandmastery
+2 Gauntlets
+8 Kensai bonus
+14 from Str 25
=41 regular hit damage
x5 assassination
=205 damage/hit

Scarlet Ninja-To
11 Base with Kai
+27 Bonus, as above
=38 regular hit
x5 assassination
=190 damage/hit

8*205 + 2*190 = 2020 damage/round

Has anything in the game got 300 hit points?

Let's consider an Assassin lvl 25/ Fighter 26 in comparison. This guy doesn't have Kai so I'll have to do a little research on avg damages. Spectral Brand +5 (and Angurduval +5) has avg of 9.5 and 3.5 elemental damage. Foebane has avg of 10 and 2.5 magic damage. Seems that Foebane is better in backstabbing because of the 7x modifier. Naturally, take the ninja-to to the off hand.
(I'm assuming you could backstab with a bastard sword)

Foebane

10 AVG base damage
+3 grandmastery
+2 gauntlets
+14 str 25
=29 regular hit
x7 assassination
=203 physical damage/hit
+2.5 Larloch's minor drain
=205.5 damage each hit

Scarlet Ninja-to

7.5 AVG base damage
+19 bonus, as above
=26.5 normal hit
x7 assassination
=185.5 damage/hit

8*205.5 + 2*185.5 = 2015 damage/round

There is no big difference here but the Kensai/thief will do a lot more damage without assassination.

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Sun Sep 23, 2001 11:06 am

Don't some prep spells increase damage? The Description of Chant claims it does. Luck might also add a point. So, if we're not talking about a one-man-operation, maybe these should be included in the Quest for the Most Damage.

Magior · Post by **Magior** » Sun Sep 23, 2001 8:48 pm

Thanks, Xyx. We already assumed a cleric (how else could we obtain a holy symbol?). A multi cleric/mage could just hit the 25th level to get the symbol. He could cast both Luck and Chant. Let's add a bard singing Enhanced Song. Damage calculations follow.

Kensai/Thief

Hindo's Doom | Scarlet ninja-to

14 | 11 base
+27 | +27 bonus, as above
+2 | +2 from those spells
+4 | +4 Enhanced Bard Song
47 | 44 regular hit
assassination x5
235 | 220

That'd be 2320 damage/round

The Assassin/Fighter takes the lead:

Foebane | Scarlet Ninja-to
10 | 7.5 AVG base
+19 | +19 bonus, as above
+2 | +2 luck & chant
+4 | +4 Bard Song
35 | 32.5 regular hit
assassination x7
245 | 227.5 physical hit
+2.5 | 0 larloch's
247.5 | 227.5

That'd be 2435 damage/round

[ 09-23-2001: Message edited by: tram ]

[ 09-23-2001: Message edited by: tram ]

Shadowwarrior · Post by **Shadowwarrior** » Sun Sep 23, 2001 10:38 pm

But what about this? I use a mage with 3 strenght using a non-magical dagger with no profiency in? Beat that!

Bruce Lee · Post by **Bruce Lee** » Mon Sep 24, 2001 2:12 am

Does strength bonuses get multiplied in a backstab? I thought they changed that from bg1. Or does assassinate work differently than backstab.

Grimm Reaper · Post by **Grimm Reaper** » Mon Sep 24, 2001 4:16 pm

In Watcher's Keep, against larger foes, and using a two-handed sword +3, Sarevok has scored as high as 200!

No wonder he was trouble in BG1.

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Mon Sep 24, 2001 8:00 pm

I think it pretty clear....

too many nice weps in bg2 tob....

yes, korgy in my games gets picked on becasue he look like a swiss army knife....

he has weps for every occasion. since my mage heavy cleric heavy party has only 3 sword carriers, they carry weps in backpack for all enemy types. I will often hang on to one wep for specific bonus though its only +2 or +3, like the mace of easthaven for demon whomping...until I get foebane.

my sorc, however, sometimes wants do do things her way, and will power word blind a dragon so aerie can bash to death with simple quaterstaff +1!!!!

God, I love disable spells!

Magior · Post by **Magior** » Wed Sep 26, 2001 3:53 am

@Bruce Lee: You were right of course, and I was wrong. The strength bonus doesn't get multiplied.

I did little empiristic experimentation to fall my own theories and succeeded. Strength bonus is added after the backstab multiplication, everything else gets multiplied, but neither Chant nor Luck increases damage. (Does chant do anything??) Oh, and avoid Kai'ing with staff of the Ram. Kai seems to ignore the piercing damage, making it possible to score better hits without it.

The real damage resolution with the Kensai 24/Thief:

Hindo's Doom

14 Base maximum (Kai)
+3 grandmastery
+2 gauntlets
+8 Kensai Bonus
+1 (mysterious bonus)*
+4 Enhanced Bard Song
=32
x5 backstab
=160 + 14 (Str bonus)
=174 (experimental result)

With Scarlet Ninja-to, thats 159

Per round, that's 8*174 + 2*159 =

1710

That's the real maximum per round, folks. With that, I rest my case

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Wed Sep 26, 2001 4:23 am

Ah, but what if I have my Improved Hasted level 20+ Kensai/Mage cast Horrid Wilting, while simultaneously firing a Chain Contingency with another three Horrid Wiltings, and hitting stuff with the Club of Detonation while surrounded by 30+ enemies?

What if Horrid Wilting rolls all 8s? What if the Club of Detonation detonated each and every hit for maximum damage?

THE JAKER · Post by **THE JAKER** » Wed Sep 26, 2001 6:06 am

Is that the <STRONG>upgraded</STRONG> club of detonation or the regular????

Kovi · Post by **Kovi** » Wed Sep 26, 2001 6:49 am

A sorcerer (not mine, but one with Vecna!) might do better with:
- Protection from Magical Energy
- Improved Alacrity
- move to battle
->start round
0:Chain Contengency fire: 3 x Abi Dalzim (20d8)
(and no cheese with more chain contingency)
1:Spell Trigger: 3 x Skull Trap (20d6)
2:Spell Sequencer: 3 x Skull Trap (20d6)
3-8: 6 x Dragon's Breath (20d10)
9-10: 2 x Skull Trap(20d6)

= 3x20d8 + 8x20d6 + 6x20d10

Assume average opponents with 10 save vs spell, no magic resistance, and no fire resistance, that mean an average of:

= 3x15x4.5 + 8x15x3.5 + 6x15x5.5=
= 202.5 + 420 + 495
= 1115 damage/round/opponent

King Leoric · Post by **King Leoric** » Wed Sep 26, 2001 8:35 am

First of all: Why only 3 skull traps?

So, i say, the sorceror, considering him WITHOUT ANY RINGS or any stuff that gives more spells/level, goes in the middle of the enemies misleaded, with Mirror Image and StoneSkin, and you WILL NEED (minor) glove of invulnerability, and with improved alacrity.

there are lots of area-damaging spells wich can be cast INSTANTLY with the robe of vecna and the amulet of power(they have a "regular"casting time of 5 or less), such as

sunfire(15d6=52.5),

cone of cold(20d4+20=20d6=70),

chain lightining (10d6=35),

ice storm (2d8=0(not cast), no save, a terrible level 4 spell),

delayed blast fireball (not recommended, because you'll have a casting time of 2 and WILL take the damage if you are hit, for 15d6=0(not cast)),

Dragon's Breath(20d10=110)

so, the average damage caused is:
6xSkull=420
6xSunfire=315
6xChainLig=210
sequenced(3xSkull)=210
triggered(3xSkull)=210
6xDragon's=660
chain cont(3xAbi)=270

Total damage cast INSTANTLY(well, almost):
DAMAGE=2295 instantly/enemy

assuming ALL 33 (!) savings are made (very difficult), 1147.5 intantly/enemy

and THEN he could begin casting spells that actually require casting time, such as delayed blast or abi dalzin's

So, imagine him surrounded by 50 kobolds, he could choose to either cast a death spell to kill them all, or cast all of these to deal an amazing 114.740 points of damage, INSTANTLY!!!!!!!

Kovi · Post by **Kovi** » Wed Sep 26, 2001 8:58 am

That is fun!

I didn't consider instant casting, I thought 1 segment (1/10 of the round) is always needed.
Anyway I have made a mistake, the sorc can have "only" 5 Dragon's Breath after Improved Alacrity.

King Leoric · Post by **King Leoric** » Wed Sep 26, 2001 12:51 pm

Are you sure about the 1/10 of a round?

i Have to make some tests, just to see how many "instant" spells you could cast during an Improved Alacrity. If the 1/10 is correct, you could "only" cast 20, but i believe i've already cast Much more spells during an Impr Al

Also, a spellcaster with, for instance, Amulet of power, casts Magic Missile faster than a spellcaster naked, and MM takes 1/10 of a round to be cast...

If someone know the number of "instant" spells that you can cast during an Impr Alacrity, please post, or i'll have to do some testings...

King Leoric · Post by **King Leoric** » Thu Sep 27, 2001 1:04 am

I did some testings, and found out some strange things about spell durations, but i was tired and didn't do the tests with spells with long durations, and i used my watch to verify the durations of spells, such as:

Improved Alacrity:16s (should be 12s)
Timestop:22s (should be 18s)

And also, during an Improved Alacrity, i sent hell down on Sarevok, and cast more than 50 "instant" spells on him, and measured the time remaining of the Impr Alacrity spell, and, according to my watch, there were 18s left!!!!

I know that all the explosions must have pushed too hard on my computer, but the important thing is that all teh 50 spells were cast REALLY, REALLY fast, almost instantly!!!!

So, about teh durations, could someone confirm that, is just my computer that is slow? Or it's because i'm running 24 frames/sec?