GameBanshee Forums

Recently I got wondering on what you guys actually know about Anthropomorphism. It's basically a form of culture revolving around humans who look like animals. At least, that's what most of it is about... some are animals who can talk, and some such.

I've noticed how large Anthro is getting in today's culture, even if the actual population of "Furries" isn't exactly growing to huge amounts of people. Fans have been popping out of nowhere. So... what do people know about it? Your opinions? I'm a bit curious, see.

EDIT - [ATTACH]3332.vB[/ATTACH]

[QUOTE=Hill-Shatar]Recently I got wondering on what you guys actually know about Anthropomorphism. It's basically a form of culture revolving around humans who look like animals. At least, that's what most of it is about... some are animals who can talk, and some such.

I've noticed how large Anthro is getting in today's culture, even if the actual population of "Furries" isn't exactly growing to huge amounts of people. Fans have been popping out of nowhere. So... what do people know about it? Your opinions? I'm a bit curious, see.[/QUOTE]
When I see the word anthropomorphism, I think of things like people being changed into animals by the gods, not a lifestyle (Roman/Greek and now Norse mythology are stuck in my head right now, so that's no surprise). As for people like the "Furries," it's their life, they can do what they want. After all, someone I want to get with and myself were discussing doing something with a Spider-Man costume. Not exactly a Furries type of thing, but it's close, no? :laugh: Whatever makes them happy. I might even be inclined to try it some time, although I have to say that initially it doesn't seem like my kind of thing. Then again, I might like it. One shouldn't judge.

A culture? I am only familiar with anthropomorphism as a word, coming from Greek of course, meaning when you transfer human characteristics to animals so that you interpret animal behaviour as if they where like humans. Literaly, the word means "like human form".

During the 20th century, there was a revolution in etology (the science about animal behaviour) which led to an increased understanding that animal behaviour, even though it may appear similar to human behaviour, may not be equivalent at all. Western society learned a lot about animal behaviour in general and understanding of which behaviours are similar and not accumulated. This occurred very much in parallell with an increased understanding of the natural environment we all live in, and etology today has become an important science both for understanding the evolutionary genetic and biological underpinning of human behaviour and for understanding how we should protect our ecosystems from being disrupted by human activity. This knowledge however is not applied, due to political goals.

Lately, I have noticed that some movies that include heavy anthropomorphisms of animals has become very popular. Disney of course made anthropomorphism popular many years ago, but recently both the French movie about Emperor Penguins and Herzog's semi-documentary about that horrible American guy who believe he was protecting wild brown bears by disturbing them heavily, has attracted a big audience. Maybe this popular movies, or the popularity of them, are associated with the culture Hill speak about?

In any case, attributing human thoughts, emotions and intentions to animals is at best a safe way to misunderstand animals and at worst it will lead to failure to address environmental and ecological disruption. It can also be quite dangerous to both the animals and humans - for instance the disturbed American who believed he had a special contact with bears, eventually turned into their dinner.

Well, actually, the majority of Furries I know don't go about dancing around in animal costumes. Most people are just fairly normal who have animal-human hybrid avatars on the internet and are interested in similar artwork and books.

@ CE: Actually, Anthro's, or 'Furries', have been around in a form of 'Culture' (I don't think this is much of a lifestyle choice for most people) since the medieval ages, in which the first artwork of more casual nature began to work it's way into archives accross England.

Recently, yes, there has been a lot of work done on the topic by Disney, but it's more books like Redwall and similar fantasy series that have lead to a sudden leap in Anthro's coming about in recent years. It is not people who believe they have extra sensory contact or more of a feeling that they know the animals then others. Those are described as 'Otherkin' or other terms for those who are not on the more common Furry or Anthro.

In any case, attributing human thoughts, emotions and intentions to animals is at best a safe way to misunderstand animals and at worst it will lead to failure to address environmental and ecological disruption.

True, and no furry will disagree with you, except for the odd one in the batch. For the most part, this is just an ideal fantasy life which pretty much exeryone has. Most have some love for a particular animal in common but it is unlikely that anyone feels as if they understand the animal any more than anyone else around.

It can also be quite dangerous to both the animals and humans - for instance the disturbed American who believed he had a special contact with bears, eventually turned into their dinner.

I highly doubt this man was anything other than Otherkin or similar group of people. If he had any contact with an actual furry, more than likely they would have told him to quit what he was doing and get such ideas out of his head. Furries are a remarkably small group of the population, and most would never think of acting in such a way at all. The furries that where costumes are an even smaller group of somewhat stranger people who have a desire to be an animal that is all encompassing. That's also very rare, considering the amount of self proclaimed furries out there.

So this Furry culture, what is the meaning of it? What is their aim and their goals and what is their ideology or value system, do you know? I am not familiar with the author Redwell, probably because I dislike fantasy literature.

I agree with leaving nature be, so go ahead and call me a treehugger. I think that interspecies communication is possible.

In any case, attributing human thoughts, emotions and intentions to animals is at best a safe way to misunderstand animals

I do not misunderstand animals, but I saw the point somewhere that human and animal emotion/intention is often mixed up. You're talking to an an equestrian, mind you.
I communicate with horses all day. Call me an adrenaline junkie. Neigh.
And I don't know that much about the Yeti.

[QUOTE=Hill-Shatar]Recently, yes, there has been a lot of work done on the topic by Disney, but it's more books like Redwall and similar fantasy series that have lead to a sudden leap in Anthro's coming about in recent years.[/QUOTE]
If it's the one I'm thinking about, then I used to be into the Redwall series some years ago. Written by Brian Jacques, is it?
I still have one of those books.
I haven't read them in a long time though. One of my aliases, Sylver, is from a book of a similar nature and now I've mostly moved onto Forgotten Realms books.

Yes, I know a bit. Not too much, but a bit. The Wikipedia articles are actually far our of date and were made by none-furs, so you might want to ignore the incessant need for some contributor's to make it seem as if it is all a huge gullible marketing group.

The furry culture is a group of people who prefer the idea of people having more animal like characteristics in some forms of behavior and our bodies, for the most part. None would ever think that this gives them extra understanding but more along the lines of admire animals, predator's mostly, as a whole.


A lot of the culture is based around popular literature and art. in which humans are slightly altered. For example, the children/teen series Redwall has a series of animals that act like human, except for that Otter like people can swim a little better than others.

Many furry fans participate in the arts, becoming amateur--and sometimes professional--illustrators, comic strip authors, painters, sculptors, writers, musicians, and craft artists. Primarily, the fandom produces visual art works although there are many three-dimensional sculptures, fabric pieces, stories, filk music pieces, and even photographs.

While the bulk of these fan-created pieces of art are distributed through unprofessional mediums such as personal web sites and via email, some publish their works in anthologies, Amateur Press Associations, or APAzines. A few have mainstream, professional credits to their names.

I'll go and find a picture of the typical art you might find. Unfortunately, VCL had somehow made it high on the list of sites that respond, which is highly unfortunate ([url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burned_Fur"]Burned Fur[/url]). No, by the way, it is not beastiality in anyway. Hard to explain it all, really...

Burned Fur wrote:The Furs Against Furs have no specific plan, but the general feeling amongst the Furs Against Furs' members is a strong dislike of excessive sexual activity at furmeets, and embarrassing fashion statements such as clip-on tails, collars and fursuits (Hill note: Even out of public view) in public view, as well as a disrespect for meet venues and property. However, those not in the group have pointed out some of these things (such as public displays of being furry) are the reasons the meets were created in the first place. The Furs Against Furs became aware they could not change the current trends and actions of the UK furs and NorthernFurs furmeets and so formed their own gatherings.

Damn, can't find any artwork that fits GB's size restrictions. I'll look for it a little harder.

@ Rav: You seem like a perpetually innocent redwaller to me. Unfortunately it had hares, and not bunnies.

Escapism, CE, pure escapism. They want to retreat to a world where adults can essentially take on the characters of anthropomorphic creatures as displayed in animated cartoons: for the most part simpler worlds, reduced to simple sensate needs (affection, sex, etc) and returning to a childlike marveling at the universe. It fails to the extent that it is a successful retreat, regression never achieves anything unless it a brief stage in response to an emotional crisis. It also fails to the extent that it is an unsuccessful retreat, because that merely reproduces the world in detail that the obsessive furry seeks to avoid.

For what it's worth, another time-honored use of anthropomorphism is in shamanism, where spirits (however one wishes to define that) communicate with the seer, frequently in the form of animals. No shaman I know actually believes the spirit is actually the animal, but instead takes the form that best conveys some of its characteristics to the cultural awareness of the viewer. And that goes for me, too.

Escapism, CE, pure escapism. They want to retreat to a world where adults can essentially take on the characters of anthropomorphic creatures as displayed in animated cartoons: for the most part simpler worlds, reduced to simple sensate needs (affection, sex, etc) and returning to a childlike marveling at the universe.

Your proof of this is... where? Most furries I know don't want to escape, and most have excellent lives, great groups of friends and have a goal or purpose for the next few years at least. Most do look at art, just like they look at all forms of art, as do all the rest of us look at it.

Erm... the article above has already mentioned the somewhat more shallow people who just come about to read sex stories or look at pornographic pictures. It is not generally accepted in the culture as a whole, even though those who are not actual Anthro's seem to take great pleasure in reading them. As mentioned, these people just enjoy the fantasy or even thought of having similarities to animals, not that they actually feel like they can become them. I've read a lot of work on it recently, and a lot of quite simply fan work that is based on what many stories are based on, just with different terms and names. In essence, they create a world, yes, but not a world that is different from ours, just one's with different shapes or forms in their minds. Kind of like people who read horror by Stephen King to get a kick out of there being places like are mentioned in there throughout North America.

[QUOTE=Hill-Shatar]@ Rav: You seem like a perpetually innocent redwaller to me. Unfortunately it had hares, and not bunnies. [/QUOTE]
Heh. I barely remember what those books are about. The animals were based in an on old cathedral weren't they?
Hehe. Another one I used to be into was the Farthing Wood series which was televised at one point. A group of animals lived in a forest (Farthing Wood) that was getting chopped down by humans. They banded together and went on a journey to find a new home. The books following that deal with the issues faced after that point. Fox was the leader I believe.
(Yeah, the animal names weren't too imaginative, but it was a good series nevertheless).
The Deptford Histories trilogy by Robin Jarvis was also a very good one.

I remember that one Rav (Farthing wood), but very vaguely.

In any case, the older stories (and fables) seem more to use animals to bring a point across about human behaviour, while more modern stories are actually ascribing humanlike thoughts and emotions to animals while keeping some semblance of their "social organisation". (Like "Watership's down" or this series about moles of which I temporarily forgotten the name).

As for furries, I don't know a lot about them really. But well, we all need our escapisms and distractions otherwise we'd all be hanging from the trees like rotten fruit.

Hill-Shatar wrote:Escapism, CE, pure escapism. They want to retreat to a world where adults can essentially take on the characters of anthropomorphic creatures as displayed in animated cartoons: for the most part simpler worlds, reduced to simple sensate needs (affection, sex, etc) and returning to a childlike marveling at the universe.

Your proof of this is... where? Most furries I know don't want to escape, and most have excellent lives, great groups of friends and have a goal or purpose for the next few years at least. Most do look at art, just like they look at all forms of art, as do all the rest of us look at it.

Proof? Is this a scientifically conducted inquiry? Because I was under the impression that you were stating your personal-derived conclusions, and I was stating mine. For what it's worth, mine were in part deried from a survey of several dozen text-based furry MUDs that I did about 10 years ago. (The social kind, not the battling kind.) Everybody I met fit this category. I'm not condemning them for doing so, but it seemed plain in all cases that their roleplaying was a stereotypical retreat to an idealized childhood perception of the world, with additions made for adult sexual needs.

I don't think there's anything wrong with brief escapism. All of us indulge in it, in one form or another, whether through reading novels to sexual fantasies to simply wish-fulfillment daydreaming. Problems arise, IMO, when people concretize theirs into dogma ("I believe I was a wolf in a previous lifetime"), and/or begin moving some of their personal identity over to an anthropomorphic creation. This is a difficult magical (read mental, if you want) technique that can really cause a lot of internal problems, and results at the least in insufficient grounding in reality.

Which is not meant to be an endorsement for reality. But hey, you gotta work with what ya got.

Erm... the article above has already mentioned the somewhat more shallow people who just come about to read sex stories or look at pornographic pictures. It is not generally accepted in the culture as a whole, even though those who are not actual Anthro's seem to take great pleasure in reading them. As mentioned, these people just enjoy the fantasy or even thought of having similarities to animals, not that they actually feel like they can become them. I've read a lot of work on it recently, and a lot of quite simply fan work that is based on what many stories are based on, just with different terms and names. In essence, they create a world, yes, but not a world that is different from ours, just one's with different shapes or forms in their minds.

My impressions from reading some of this literature is that it's very different from the better grade of fiction, in two respects. First, it either simplifies people into stereotypes whose emotional reactions, in turn, are stereotyped, or second, it recreates a society devoid of any cultural nuance, where anthropomorphic people exist in a commercially induced vacuum of easy consumerism. There is no past, save as it relates to modern television and popular films. There is no future considered, and no sense of a greater world with its larger concerns. There is only an eternal present, occupied by trivialized personal worries and joys. Or at least, that's been my take on it.

[QUOTE=Athena]I think that interspecies communication is possible.[/QUOTE]
You'll get no arguement from me in that. My parents have owned dogs, and they've never had trouble getting it across to us, their supposed masters, when they want something. Especially food. :laugh: Yes, I'm being slightly facetious, but truth of the matter is, the dogs I grew up around seriously had no trouble whatsoever making their intentions known. If they wanted out, they told you, if they wanted food, they'd tell you, and if they wanted attention, they'd tell you. Interspecies communication is possible, but probably not by the means which most people seem to think communication is possible (audible).

[QUOTE=Hill-Shatar]Well, actually, the majority of Furries I know don't go about dancing around in animal costumes. Most people are just fairly normal who have animal-human hybrid avatars on the internet and are interested in similar artwork and books.

@ CE: Actually, Anthro's, or 'Furries', have been around in a form of 'Culture' (I don't think this is much of a lifestyle choice for most people) since the medieval ages, in which the first artwork of more casual nature began to work it's way into archives accross England.[/QUOTE]
I don't know if I'm willing to agree that the reason artwork and books involve animal-human hybrids or whatall is due to this culture; the culture just embraced what was inherent in artwork and prose already created. A lot of this is more due to the presence of such things in past religions (Greek, Roman, Norse [oh yeah, souls are mice in Norse mythology, and when you die a mouse escapes from your mouth; appetizing, no?]). This was not due to this anthropomorphic culture. Mythological/religious symbols find their way into a lot of art (paintings, sculptures, poetry, prose, etc.).

[QUOTE=fable]Escapism, CE, pure escapism. They want to retreat to a world where adults can essentially take on the characters of anthropomorphic creatures as displayed in animated cartoons: for the most part simpler worlds, reduced to simple sensate needs (affection, sex, etc) and returning to a childlike marveling at the universe. It fails to the extent that it is a successful retreat, regression never achieves anything unless it a brief stage in response to an emotional crisis. It also fails to the extent that it is an unsuccessful retreat, because that merely reproduces the world in detail that the obsessive furry seeks to avoid.[/QUOTE]
Of course it's escapism, fable; most everything Man comes up with to induce happiness or delight is a form of escapism. We all need escapism of some kind otherwise we'd realize just how miserable we all have it. I know there are some movies or TV shows or places that when I watch/visit, I feel a pang of the child I once was, and the memory of how happy and naive I used to be hits me, if only for a moment. Like the movie Willow, which I saw a few years ago on some TV channel; then I had to have the movie just because it elicited those feelings in me. We all seek some form of escapism; Anthropomorphism is just another one.

That was kind of the long way of saying "I agree, fable."

Proof? Is this a scientifically conducted inquiry? Because I was under the impression that you were stating your personal-derived conclusions, and I was stating mine. For what it's worth, mine were in part deried from a survey of several dozen text-based furry MUDs that I did about 10 years ago. (The social kind, not the battling kind.) Everybody I met fit this category. I'm not condemning them for doing so, but it seemed plain in all cases that their roleplaying was a stereotypical retreat to an idealized childhood perception of the world, with additions made for adult sexual needs.

There are many different types of Furs out there, and I suppose that I might have been overzealous with the proof here, but I spend a lot of time with many, and most are just interested in the work, with a few more actually going a bit more into depth with fantasy. Do you happen to have a link?

FurryMUCK is, however, a role playing site. A lot of people tend to get a little attatched to characters they role play with, and if you've played P&P with the same character for weeks, you might have found the same thing with whichever character you have. Otherwise, it's not as enjoyable, is it?

However, the 'Pure Escapism' might have been a bit harsh here.

By the way, you might want to read this page [url="http://www.tigerden.com/infopage/furry/lifestyle.txt"]here[/url]. I can come up with a few more if you wish.

Problems arise, IMO, when people concretize theirs into dogma ("I believe I was a wolf in a previous lifetime"), and/or begin moving some of their personal identity over to an anthropomorphic creation.

Problems arise in all forms of belief systems when people go overboard, and similar problems also arise when people go overboard when they love Star Trek or similar shows to the point of wearing the uniform daily. It's to be expected that some people go overboard.

My impressions from reading some of this literature is that it's very different from the better grade of fiction, in two respects. First, it either simplifies people into stereotypes whose emotional reactions, in turn, are stereotyped, or second, it recreates a society devoid of any cultural nuance, where anthropomorphic people exist in a commercially induced vacuum of easy consumerism. There is no past, save as it relates to modern television and popular films. There is no future considered, and no sense of a greater world with its larger concerns. There is only an eternal present, occupied by trivialized personal worries and joys. Or at least, that's been my take on it.

I take it you've read it on multiple sites and versions of stories, correct? Not just one or two? I admit to having read a good forty or so myself over the last week, and many have a good side plot of history (typically a war) and similar effects to them. Then again, that's what I've actually encountered, and I don;t know what you've read for a fur site. As you know, the 'Newer Gens' of this little fandom have made it into something it really isn't, and most of the shift has happened over the most recent few years.

I don't know if I'm willing to agree that the reason artwork and books involve animal-human hybrids or whatall is due to this culture; the culture just embraced what was inherent in artwork and prose already created.

I never said anything to the contrary, Chim. Where'd you think I actually said that? Interest has been in years in fantasy writing for normal authors to write about it, since it's a change of pace or something that they think is 'Cool'. Some people just become fans of the actual work, that's all.

Anthropomorphism is just another one.

So, from what've read, it's pure escape for people? I see... I don't see this as an escape, to tell you the truth. Although I don't look it, I'm one of the old school Furs who just enjoys the work itself, whether it be literature, or whether it be artwork.

I started up a similar thread on another forum, and the responses I got was that is was a form of beasiality or animal porn for sick, sick people who dress up in costumes and pretend to be animals. Only on role playing sites, people. Just like we're doing right now. Although, when there is [url="http://www.perrirhoades.furtopia.org/Furry2.html#1"]conflict[/url] in the escape as a whole... well, it's sort of like telling a person they are reading in the bathroom wrong.

EDIT -

The link wrote:Likewise, if you’re a Furry lifestyler, “Furry” probably means something of a religious or spiritual significance to you. If you’re what’s called a “Furvert,” “Furry” probably means some form of sexual gratification you get off on. But I’m a “Furry Fan." So when I use the words “Furry” or “Furries,” I’m generally talking about the century old fandom for the Furry genre of literature and cartoons.

As said, some people even worship in a sense the animal body hybrid ideal. Last time I checked, most people don't consider a religion 'Pure Escapism'.

[QUOTE=Hill-Shatar] I don't know if I'm willing to agree that the reason artwork and books involve animal-human hybrids or whatall is due to this culture; the culture just embraced what was inherent in artwork and prose already created.

I never said anything to the contrary, Chim. Where'd you think I actually said that? Interest has been in years in fantasy writing for normal authors to write about it, since it's a change of pace or something that they think is 'Cool'. Some people just become fans of the actual work, that's all.

Anthropomorphism is just another one.

So, from what've read, it's pure escape for people? I see... I don't see this as an escape, to tell you the truth. Although I don't look it, I'm one of the old school Furs who just enjoys the work itself, whether it be literature, or whether it be artwork.

...

As said, some people even worship in a sense the animal body hybrid ideal. Last time I checked, most people don't consider a religion 'Pure Escapism'. [/QUOTE]
Who knows? I read some things others don't, and read some things people didn't even write. I guess I just read something completely else. Sorry. My mind's going in a bunch of different directions right now. Sadly, homework isn't where it's going, yet that's where it needs to be.

Maybe I over-emphasized the idea that this is nothing but escape for them. Part of it is definitely escapism, certainly, but maybe not entirely. And no, most people wouldn't consider religion pure escapism. But people turn to it to explain the world, why it's a miserable place to be, and bring them happiness. To me, that's escapism.

Hill-Shatar wrote:There are many different types of Furs out there, and I suppose that I might have been overzealous with the proof here, but I spend a lot of time with many, and most are just interested in the work, with a few more actually going a bit more into depth with fantasy. Do you happen to have a link?

Do you mean the MUDs? Because there were several dozen. Do you mean the fiction? Because many of those sites are no longer around. The primary one, Mia's Index of Anthro Stories, remains, but no work has apparently been done on it in over 3 years, and there are a fair number of delinked items (if a casual inspection can be any judge). Another page with far less material is All Things Furry.

FurryMUCK is, however, a role playing site. A lot of people tend to get a little attatched to characters they role play with, and if you've played P&P with the same character for weeks, you might have found the same thing with whichever character you have. Otherwise, it's not as enjoyable, is it?

But I would never maintain that any character I created was a part of me, or that the world would be better off if we were just animals, or that animals are more "innocent" than humans, or that having anthropomorphic sex (which is apparently quite frequent in FurryMUCK, to judge from what I read/witnessed--as well as the come-ons I received) was a good thing. A strong and active fantasy life is a very healthy thing, but not when it becomes so strong that the individual personality begins preferring regular masturbation in front of a computer screen to a genuine relationship with another human being.

FurryMUCK was one of the sites I checked out. Socio-Political Ramifications was a second. There were numerous others, some geared more towards roleplaying, others towards the sex. There was even one that used an early Ultima VI-style graphical interface.

However, the 'Pure Escapism' might have been a bit harsh here.

You're entitled to think that. I obviously think otherwise. I can't see any other reason why people would immerse themselves so regularly and deeply in their parts, nor tell me the reasons they did so, that I elaborated above.

By the way, you might want to read this page here. I can come up with a few more if you wish.

It's a FAQ that I've read before, and IMO deviates strongly at some points from the reality. So let me ask you: why would you want to roleplay an anthropomorphized dog in a generic furry world, when you roleplay a specific profession in a more specifically defined world?

As said, some people even worship in a sense the animal body hybrid ideal. Last time I checked, most people don't consider a religion 'Pure Escapism'.

Can you be a bit clearer? The Egyptian "hybrid" god forms were no more believed to be genuine animals than the non-hybrid ones were believed to be humanoid. They were symbolic representations, and every item they wore, used, carried, or were, was representative of something else defining that god's qualities. In so far as we know, this was commonly understood to be the case, just as today, Hindus who worship Ganesha know better than to think they are worshipping a baby elephant.

Another page with far less material is All Things Furry.

The work there is ok. I admit to not enjoying it as much as random chance encounters where I find some good stories, and the first link, well, although I've been sent links to it often, I never visited. *shrug*

But I would never maintain that any character I created was a part of me, or that the world would be better off if we were just animals, or that animals are more "innocent" than humans, or that having anthropomorphic sex (which is apparently quite frequent in FurryMUCK, to judge from what I read/witnessed--as well as the come-ons I received) was a good thing. A strong and active fantasy life is a very healthy thing, but not when it becomes so strong that the individual personality begins preferring regular masturbation in front of a computer screen to a genuine relationship with another human being.

It's furryMUCK, yet another forum/site that has been taken over by the 'New Gen' and leaving the oldies in the dust. You have to expect something along these lines from people who, as mentioned, are in a bit more of a radical group compared to the rest of us. Unless, of course, you think I visit furryMUCK often, and I can tell you I've read some of archives a bit more than the others. I'm afraid you beat me to making an account on that particular site.

FurryMUCK was one of the sites I checked out. Socio-Political Ramifications was a second. There were numerous others, some geared more towards roleplaying, others towards the sex. There was even one that used an early Ultima VI-style graphical interface.

If you check a lot of the membership, you'll find a lot of similar names. It's one of the reasons Burned Fur was created, because of the rampant creation of sexual fantasies when the original meaning, whether to the religious group or the fandom, has been completely obscured by a few people trying to be different. I kind of, er... walk around those sorts of sites, since they were not around when I joined into the fandom, and make a lot of us nervous.

You're entitled to think that. I obviously think otherwise. I can't see any other reason why people would immerse themselves so regularly and deeply in their parts, nor tell me the reasons they did so, that I elaborated above.

There are tribes in Africa that had rituals involving men dressing up as woman, and practicing the part by acting as one for several months before. However, I rarely visit these sites and a lot of other people choose not to either. Really, it's more along the lines of how Hentai followed Anime as it slowly growed into the world wide industry that it is today.

It's a FAQ that I've read before, and IMO deviates strongly at some points from the reality. So let me ask you: why would you want to roleplay an anthropomorphized dog in a generic furry world, when you roleplay a specific profession in a more specifically defined world?

It does, and that's where we find a line between people who might want to be this way, and so have created a sort of "cult" or "religion" defining themselves as Furry, which, as I think mentioned in the rather more interesting and important FAQ afterwards, has multiple meanings.

Honestly? Why would I want to roleplay and elf? Or an ogre, or an orc, for that matter, when this is just basically a human with fur, fangs, claws and a snout? For a while I even chose to roleplay as a werewolf sometimes, but I got bored quickly of the senseless brutality that character happened to have.

I have roleplayed both, and both have had well placed professions, and I even found a lot of world's far more interesting in the first than the rather constant and less thought about world in the second. I'd play both.

Can you be a bit clearer? The Egyptian "hybrid" god forms were no more believed to be genuine animals than the non-hybrid ones were believed to be humanoid. They were symbolic representations, and every item they wore, used, carried, or were, was representative of something else defining that god's qualities.

I know all of three people who are actually part of this, and they have problems discussing it with me, basically because I'm part of the fandom and not exactly ready to give over my immortal soul or whichever they want to become a Furry in the next life.

From what I know, those who 'worship' these ideals hope to become Furries, through some sort of "Advanced Learning" or worship to find out how to ascend or shift over to such forms. I have to admit, I find the religion to be a bit excessive myself, so have never really followed that extensively... I'll go around and ask when they are actually awake, instead of calling on them at half past midnight.

Maybe I over-emphasized the idea that this is nothing but escape for them. Part of it is definitely escapism, certainly, but maybe not entirely.

Part is definitely escapism, but half the things we do now are just to escape. *shrug*

Athena wrote:I agree with leaving nature be, so go ahead and call me a treehugger. I think that interspecies communication is possible.

Of course interspecies communication is feasible, especially between species who are similar to each other like humans and other group-living mammals. Dressing up in a bear costume and attributing human emotions and reasoning to bear behaviour does however not at all improve communication.

You're talking to an an equestrian, mind you. I communicate with horses all day. Call me an adrenaline junkie.

Your being an equestrian does not change anything of my arguments or statements. There are like 6 billion other people around in world, you know Whether you are an adrenaline junkie or not seems unrelated. I don't see an association between interest for horses and adreneline - do you try to provoce them to kick you or what?

Escapism, CE, pure escapism. They want to retreat to a world where adults can essentially take on the characters of anthropomorphic creatures as displayed in animated cartoons: for the most part simpler worlds, reduced to simple sensate needs (affection, sex, etc) and returning to a childlike marveling at the universe.

Reminds me of a good book called "The Infantile Society" written by a well known Swedish economist. This book analyses todays Western society with the suggestion that people tend to focus on satisfying infantile needs. The author believes that certain characteristics of modern Western society impairs normal maturity of the personality and behaviour.

For what it's worth, another time-honored use of anthropomorphism is in shamanism, where spirits (however one wishes to define that) communicate with the seer, frequently in the form of animals. No shaman I know actually believes the spirit is actually the animal, but instead takes the form that best conveys some of its characteristics to the cultural awareness of the viewer. And that goes for me, too.

Yes, this is different. Shamanistic and animistic religions attribute human characteristics to animals in the same way as many mythologies attribute human characteristics to gods and spirits. In some cultures, the animal is only the outer form of a transcendent being, in others the animals are parts of or descendents of, a great transcendent version of that animal.

Chimaera182]Of course it's escapism wrote:
I don't know if Furry culture is escapism or not since I am not familiar with it, but I do disagree with you that man needs escapism. Man needs rest, yes, but if we need escapism because we find our lives miserable, we have problems and should do something about it instead. I think people in general in Western society have a far too high tolerance for escapism. It is viewed as normal and accepted that people waste their lives living a life they don't really appreciate a lot, doing things they don't really enjoy, and in between they just try to fill themselves with instant stimulance of basic drives. This should not be viewed as "normal" because many people do it. If everybody beat each other daily it is normal in the sense commonly occuring, but it's not normal in the sense healthy, adaptive behaviour.

Hill]There are tribes in Africa that had rituals involving men dressing up as woman wrote:
There are many tribes in Africa (I recently met some, I intended to post here about some interesting meetings I had with fetisch men and shamans, but I never had time, maybe now when I am on sick leave until Tuesday next week) who hold animistic and/or shamanistic beliefs that involves anthropomorphic beliefs in the sense of the word, not in the sense of being like Furries, which I understand to be a fan culture.

Many of these animistic beliefs include rites, especially mask dances and sacrifice rites, where people dress up like animals, women or something else for specific religious purposes. It would be a gross mistake to make analogies between African religion and fan cultures based on some childrens' books and cartoons. African animist religion is not a role playing game, nor does it have anything to do with fan fiction. Or do you call muslims and christian fan fiction culture because they believe in these books and are heavily influenced by the stories in these books and try to model their lives after the main characters in the books?

Of course interspecies communication is feasible, especially between species who are similar to each other like humans and other group-living mammals. Dressing up in a bear costume and attributing human emotions and reasoning to bear behaviour does however not at all improve communication.

*redirects to the odder end of the little cult*

Reminds me of a good book called "The Infantile Society" written by a well known Swedish economist. This book analyses todays Western society with the suggestion that people tend to focus on satisfying infantile needs. The author believes that certain characteristics of modern Western society impairs normal maturity of the personality and behaviour.

Do you ever read any books on Eastern society? Would you describe this (/sub)culture as just another group of people satisfying their infantile needs? I certainly would not, if it hadn't been for the sudden explosion of that damn porn industry a few years back.

It is viewed as normal and accepted that people waste their lives living a life they don't really appreciate a lot, doing things they don't really enjoy, and in between they just try to fill themselves with instant stimulance of basic drives.

Sorry, I must have missed something here. Has this entire thread swerved on discussion on the small visible sub culture from the actual furries out there? You viewing this as a waste of time, and since I enjoy reading and viewing art in my spare time once in a while... and trust me, the more eccentric costume group is not accepted in any form at all for most people.

This should not be viewed as "normal" because many people do it.

Not a lot of people do this, and it's a prefered term for those who enjoy the art/lit that comes from it, or those small packs joining on religions groups. We prefer not to be compared to the costume group, thanks.

Many of these animistic beliefs include rites, especially mask dances and sacrifice rites, where people dress up like animals, women or something else for specific religious purposes. It would be a gross mistake to make analogies between African religion and fan cultures based on some childrens' books and cartoons. African animist religion is not a role playing game, nor does it have anything to do with fan fiction. Or do you call muslims and christian fan fiction culture because they believe in these books and are heavily influenced by the stories in these books and try to model their lives after the main characters in the books?

As mentioned in my post, there is a small group of people who actually follow a religion based on this culture you speak of, and that some are heavily into roleplaying. For the note, if you did read the few parts of the Wiki article as it looks like you did in your first post, you would have noticed that this has been around since the turn of the century, well before these forms of Children's books or comics even hit the majority of children out there, and there are a lot of works from authors who considered themselves furries at the time.

Quite cutting to say this is just made out of children's books and comics, CE, as this form of culture was even around before then, as I mentioned, in the medieval ages. For some, this might be a form of life to them that is far more encompassing or interesting to them than simple role playing, and that was the connection I was making from fable's response through your quoting of mine.