Sorceror spell picks for tutu ?? (1st ever BGI runthrough)

[Jedi_Sauraus]

Hi people today is a happy day I finally recieved BGI +ToSC in the mail. I'm going to be playing a Sorceror all the way through since it's my favorite class.

So anyway I looked up the sorceror Tables and I will have 5 level 1 spells, 4 level 2, 3 level 3, and 2 level 4 spells at the 161k cap. Next level is 250k so even if tutu removed the cap there's not enough expierience I've read for 250k X 6 team members.

There are so many spells to pick at these levels that I simply don't know what to choose and in which order. Especially since I don't get the full 5 which I'm used to

I'm thinking

1: Magic Missle, Chromatic Orb, Spook, Shield, and Find Familar (I like familiars, I know this one is a complete waste powerplay wise but there are scrolls early on. I'm told chapter 5 earliest opportunity)

2: Mirror Image, Melf's Arrow, Glitterdust, Web, Ray of Enfeeblement
since that's 5 please choose the most useless one for BGI

3: Slow, Haste, Skull Trap, Flame Arrow, Remove Magic (dispell is too much of a double edged sword in ToB) As above throw out the most useless 2 in BGI

4: Aka the utter Agony of choice (choose 2 )

Spiderspawn ?? -useless in ToB but I'm thinking it could be usefull in BGI
Emotion: I'm getting this for sure but maybe not in BG1 ??
Stoneskin: Should I get this in BGI instead of Greater Malison ??
Greater Malison: definitly getting this but not sure when
Polymorph other: same as above but definitly in SoA

[mr_sir]

Its worth remembering/considering that haste causes fatigue in BG1, where as it doesn't in BG2. Its still useful though.

[galraen]

Who else do you envision being in the party? Judging from the absence of Remove Fear and Detect Invisible you obviously intend having at least one priest. Will you be taking Imoen and DCing her to mage?

Personally I've found Glitterdust to be useless, I gave it a good try after reading a similar thread in the BG2 forum, but it never seemed to have any effect, rarely made foes visible, and never blinded any of them, prefer Horror myself.

I'd suggest considering Strength instead of Ray of Enfeeblement, there's no save (and an Ogre with 18/50 strength is a lot less hassle than one with 18/00) and Imoen and others will benefit as well.

Skull Trap has more potential damage wise, but I found it's short range and unreliability made Fireball a better bet (I lost count of the number of times monsters just walked past it without setting it off).

Spiderspawn is definitely worth having in BG1, and even in BG2, I'd go with that and Stoneskin.

It might be worth checking out the walkthrough on this site so that you can see which spells will not be available to your mages before finalising your choices.

[Jedi_Sauraus]

wow quick replies. I'm rolling the char as we speak music is excellent
I know fireball is better, but in ToB, Time Stop Improved+ Alcracity + dumping 6 skulltraps on anything is very usefull I mayget fireball though for roleplaying reasons. Although then I can't get remove magic

I'll look into Horror if glitterdust is crappy. I've never used it before but it seems like a party freindly web that displells invisibility and possibly blinds.
useless in ToB/SoA but in BGI they should have very low saves especially with Greater Malison ?? this combo could perhaps make it usefull ??

I'll be running with Imoen Viconia (my SoA romance) and Minsc for sure as for the others that will depend on their personality. Jaheira + Khalid not sure ?? doubt it because I want to try new NPC's

Edit: don't want too many spoilers but by how much is it possible to raise wisdom in BGI + TotSC ??

[RPG Guy (sorta)]

Originally Posted by mr_sir

Its worth remembering/considering that haste causes fatigue in BG1, where as it doesn't in BG2. Its still useful though.

That wasn't my experience at all. Normal (group) haste tuckered everyone out in my party *unless* a character had it as a SPECIAL ABILITY or part of a USE ITEM enchantment. Improved (single target) Haste was fine.

Anyways Jedi,

LVL 1 - consider armor. it lasts 10 hours.

LVL 2 - I'd roll with Resist Fear (panicked party = slaughter), Web, Melf's, Blur and G-Dust.

LVL 3 - I don't see how you can pass on Melf's MM. Great damage. After Skull Trap, it's THE LVL 3 spell IMHO.

LVL 4? Definitely Stoneskin and Spider Spawn (to compliment Web).

Good luck on your campaign!

[Jedi_Sauraus]

I've never been a fan of Melf's let me explain why.

when you cast it at early levels you have enough to cast what half a round ?? it's 1 missle per level. When you finally have a respectable number of missles you get can get the level 10 energy blades which are much better.

Now lets conder good level 3 picks:

Haste, Slow, S.Trap/Fireball , Flame Arrow, Remove Magic/Dispel. Which would you throw out for Melf's ?? Haste stays good for Planetars and Skeleton Warriors, Slow and Haste together can make or break many encounters in SoA, Flame Arrow and S.Trap do good damage. The only one I'd consider removing is the dispelling spell but........ it is still usefull.

Ok, due to it's popularity and for some role play fun I'll get Spider Spawn along side Web

But why get stone skin so early when I'll have Mirror Image ?? I love Emotion because I don't have to chase anyone down as I have to with Confusion/Horror. Anyway last post, for tonight I'm off to explore Candlekeep
and possibly surrounding areas

[RPG Guy (sorta)]

Originally Posted by Jedi_Sauraus

when you cast it at early levels you have enough to cast what half a round ?? it's 1 missle per level. When you finally have a respectable number of missles you get can get the level 10 energy blades which are much better.

It's 1d4 + 3 + 3 per missle. That's 7 minimum per. (11 max). By LVL 4, you'd have the chance to do 44 MAX damage in a single round (low 30's more likely with misses though). Great value for LVL 3 IMO. Don't forget that MMM's hit anything (even a ddue like Kangaax) and great troll killing.

But why get stone skin so early when I'll have Mirror Image ??

Good point. But I'm guessing a L1 Sorc starts with what? 8-10 HPs? just started another BG2 game as a Sorc and started with 17 at LVL 7 so I can only imagine how frail your PC is. PC death = guaranteed reload so I just figured you'd appreciate the extra protection...especially versus backstabs which will undoubtedly force a reload with one hit.

All of your arguments are strong though. Not criticizing at all. Just expressing an opinion. Peace.

[Jedi_Sauraus]

Man it's a tough going I'm getting my ass handed to me on a platter from just about anything. You'd figure two 20 year old humans would be able to at least damage a wolf before he rips your throat out

Anyway this game rocks because of the sheer difficulty level. It will make level up's more enjoyable. I need to rest so I can finally cast spells but I'm getting ambushed by diseased Gibberlings which can still pwn me and Imoen is running out of arrows (Damn should have had the foresight to buy some from Whinthorpe). Thankfully she has a much better voice set and personality in this game.

@RPG Guy my negative bias towards melf's was developed during expierience with SoA where it was primarely a golem killing tool untill I got a +3 bow. In this game 44 damage over 4 rounds is like getting Raveger +6 in SoA I'm definitly considering switching Remove Magic for MMM. If I ever get to level 2 that is, as it stands I get pwned by nearly everything and I can't make my way to the Frendly Arm Inn the road is blocked by nasty's

Edit: here's some laughs for you as well: 6 hp's

[mr_sir]

Originally Posted by Jedi_Sauraus

Man it's a tough going I'm getting my ass handed to me on a platter from just about anything. You'd figure two 20 year old humans would be able to at least damage a wolf before he rips your throat out

At low levels, BG1 can be really tough at times Due to the fact you can go anywhere in the wilderness at any level, you will often find yourself in sticky situations if you don't know which are the easiest areas. To start with its a good idea to stick to the areas you need to go in for the main quest. And yeah, the wolves at the start have caused so many reloads for me in the past, especially as a mage. I find its often easiest to use your main pc to run around as a decoy while Imoen shoots arrows at them.

Anyway, back on topic, one of my favourite spells is Improved Invisibility. This combined with stoneskin and haste can make your sorceror or mage a lot more able to hold his/her own in battle

[Jedi_Sauraus]

I have 650 exp my next level seems far far away (2500). using the PC as a decoy is what I'm doing, however she's down to 1 last lucky arrow I've cleared the way and can go to the Frendly Arm or Beregost I'm thinking Freindly Arm for now to stock up on arrows and get Jaheira and Khalid

Edit: I was hoping to catch a breather in the inn and now I've got assasin's after me. I feel like that guy from Enemy of the State this game rocks, the music is better, the buildings/wilderness look better and I actually feel in danger something I never quite felt in Chateau Irenicus. Oh yes this will make an excellent run through *Happy*

[RPG Guy (sorta)]

Originally Posted by Jedi_Sauraus

@RPG Guy my negative bias towards melf's was developed during expierience with SoA where it was primarely a golem killing tool untill I got a +3 bow. In this game 44 damage over 4 rounds is like getting Raveger +6 in SoA

Jedi, not 44 damage over 4 rounds. You can chuck up to 5 MMM's PER ROUND (yup!) Like I said, MMM's is the way to go IMHO

Edit: here's some laughs for you as well: 6 hp's

ROFL! Oh man, that's worse than I feared.

Anyways, I'm a bit jealous cause I couldn't track down a copy of BG1 locally. I really wanted to start from LVL 1 but, based on what I'm hearing here, there was probably a risk that the BG1 experience might have turned me off a bit before I got to (holy) BG2.

Enjoying the updates. Keep 'em comin. I can live vicarious thru a fellow Sorc-nut.

[Jedi_Sauraus]

Well, I'm off to bed for now need to get up at 10 for Uni. I knew about MMM that was a typo, I did mean 44/round and I'm definitly getting MMM to hell with remove magic Immy can get it in SoA or Jan.

The atmosphere in the game is amazing and alot better than SoA IMHO. You start out as a n00b small fry but your struggles are well worth it. The game also does a good job of letting you know your a hunted man and keeps you on your toes. The exp system is a bit unbalance; I'm getting raped by xvit's ?? (spelling) those blue things worth 15 exp each while Immy is slaughtering gibberlings @35 each with minimum effort. (I'm thinking an Archer would be overpowered here ??)

My greatest achievement so far is that Oger with the Belts 270exp + 800 for solving the quest (w00t). I had Jaheira cast Entangle and Imoen sniped him. Her dialogs are a hell of alot better in this game and her voice is no longer annyoing.

I'll be back at it tomorrow, this game sucks you in just as much as the second As for picking up the game, It's best to get it on ebay: I paid 8.99 + 2.45 pounds shipping for the 4 in 1 dvd set (total 25 Canadian or about 20 US not a bad deal). Got it from a mass seller called "Startup Software" if your interested. Nothing but good things to say about them, cheap shipping and they sent it the next day arrived here 10 days later

[VonDondu]

BG1 and BG2/TOB are so different from each other, I think of them as two separate games. Tactics and spells that work well in BG1 don't work so well in BG2. As a result, Sorcerer spell picks that are good choices in BG1 might go to waste in BG2/TOB.

Nevertheless, here are a few suggestions.

1st Level spells:
Sleep is probably the most useful spell if you have other characters in your party who can hit with their weapons once in a while. There are lots of monsters with less than 4+3 hit dice in BG1, and they usually fail their saving throws, so Sleep will let you kill them without taking much damage.

Magic Missile will always be useful. It's probably better than Burning Hands in BG1 since you want to stay out of the monsters' reach.

Charm Person is more useful than you might think, but it is rendered obsolete by an extremely cheesy item you can pickpocket from a non-joinable NPC.

The original version of Chromatic Orb (which was modified in BG2 and probably in Tutu as well) functioned as a very good Stunning spell when you reached sufficient level. It works even better in Icewind Dale.

Speaking of Icewind Dale, Grease was a great powergaming spell, and maybe you can incorporate it into your BG1 tactics.

Spook comes in handy in BG2, so I would reserve a slot for that later.

Choosing Find Familiar doesn't make any sense to me, especially from a roleplaying perspective ("Wow, I just discovered that I have the ability to summon a special friend!"), but if there aren't any other spells you have a use for, then I guess it doesn't matter if you waste a spell slot.

2nd Level spells:
Mirror Image is indispensible, and it should be your first pick.

The BG2 version of Glitterdust is a great spell, and it functions nicely in combination with Greater Malison. If your enemies fail their saving throws, they get a -4 penalty to their attack rolls, saving throws, and armor class. Just think about the THAC0 tables and saving throw tables in BG1 for a moment. If you and your opponents have a base THAC0 of 18, your attacks are going to miss a lot and your swords will be swinging in the air. Just think of what those penalties will do to your enemies. For starters, you have at least a 20% better chance to hit them, and they might not even be able to hit you. Even the 1st level spell Protection From Evil makes a difference in BG1.

Stinking Cloud and Web are effective, but they are not party-friendly. Horror is better unless you can set up a trap that will only affect your enemies.

Ray of Enfeeblement seems like a waste of time to me in BG1, and it only affects one opponent. Resist Fear is more useful, and you'll need it fairly often in BG1.

3rd Level spells:
Use wands instead of choosing spells like Fireball, Lightning Bolt, and Monster Summoning. (And use them a lot.) If I were playing a Sorcerer in BG1 (what a strange concept), I'd choose from the following: Haste, Slow, Dispel Magic (you'll need to use it on your own party members once in a while), Skull Trap, and Hold Person (for some of those really tough opponents).

Remove Magic is useful in BG2/TOB, but spells that dispel enemy protection spells aren't needed very often in BG1. I didn't see any others on your list. But you need to leave room for some of them in BG2/TOB. I use Secret Word and Spell Thrust.

4th Level spells:
Stoneskin and Emotion. If you make it that far.


Spellcasters have their place in BG1, but they don't "rule" like they do in BG2/TOB. On my first run, I used arrows and missile weapons to kill almost everything; in later games, I relied mostly on buffed up melee warriors with Mage backup. Backstabbing also works well on the toughest monsters in the game.

Everyone has a tendency to suffer from poor THAC0, so you need all the bonuses you can get. A 7th level Fighter with 18/xx Strength and a +2 sword and a potion of haste is about the strongest character you can hope for in BG1.

When it comes to NPCs, the list is staggering. There are 25 to choose from. Imoen is very useful in BG1. Safana is almost as good, and you might like her personality. When it comes to warriors, high Strength is the main thing you want to look for. You know Minsc, of course, and Kivan and Coran are both very popular. Fortunately, most of them are easy to find. I think it's a good idea to get to know some of the NPCs you haven't seen before, but you might need to play more than one game to get to know all of them.

[Jedi_Sauraus]

I've essentially decided 2 thing about level 4 slots: A) to take Spider Spawn as my first level 4 pick since this will be too hard with out summons I remember those spiders were quite deadly, and B) I'm not getting StoneSkin. Best defence is good offense.

I've realized I've been in my BG2 mindset the whole time: A MAGE with a bow ?? no way he has crappy thac0 and 1 APR. Now I realize that Imoen is owning quite well with the above stats. I'm going to use my Sorceror as an Archer for now because whacking things with a stick doesn't cut it when he runs out of spells. He has 18 dex so he should be fine. Since he will be used at range all the time from now on Stone Skin is not needed (at least there are more pressing issues)

Edit my stats are:

11
18
16
18
15
10

For Level 2 : You're right VonDondu, Ray of Enfeeblement would be nice but I've got other priorities I'm thinking Web>Mirror Image> Glitterdust>Melf in that order.

Level 3: Haste > Slow > Melf ?? Fireball ?? or perhaps Skull Trap ?? I'm going to use the skulltrap as a fireball I have no intention luring enemies to it's location.

The primary difference seems to be with the casting range. I would go with FB but it seems wastefull later on: A pansy 15D6 when you can have 31D6 and Magic damage too, which I enjoy stacking on Dragons during a TS + I. Alcracity

Edit 2: the Skull Trap is usefull with vecna for an insta-casting missle once you learn to aim it I'm just wondering how usefull it is (how hard to aim) with a casting time of 3

[Klorox]

Sleeep or Color Spray really should be worked into your 1st level spells. They're very good.

If you plan on importing thas character into BG2, make sure you keep Spook, if not, drop it. Chromatic Orb is weaker than Magic Missile, so that's another possibility. Also, if importing, I'd roll up a STR of 18. It'll help a lot if the going gets tough.