Can't girls sneek?

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K.Rush
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Can't girls sneek?

Postby K.Rush » Thu Nov 23, 2006 4:39 am

Hi there

Has anyone of you noticed that the female characters that you can play in the game are much easier detected while sneeking than male vampires? I first noticed this when I was playing the Malkavian girl, but then I didn't bother much because I had obfuscate. After that, I tried out the male Gangrel, who had a much lower sneek skill but wasn't spotted that fast. The best example for that is the Metalhead quest that Mitnick gives you: with the Malkavian I had to use obfuscate, while the Gangrel was able to walk around those guys unnoticed. Strange, isn't it? Is it just my version of the game, or is this a known problem or bug? At the moment I'm playing the Ventrue girl, and she is even spotted by Shawni and her boyfriend! With a sneek skill of 5!

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k.rush

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Jhereg
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Postby Jhereg » Thu Nov 23, 2006 5:46 am

K.Rush wrote:Hi there

Has anyone of you noticed that the female characters that you can play in the game are much easier detected while sneeking than male vampires? I first noticed this when I was playing the Malkavian girl, but then I didn't bother much because I had obfuscate. After that, I tried out the male Gangrel, who had a much lower sneek skill but wasn't spotted that fast. The best example for that is the Metalhead quest that Mitnick gives you: with the Malkavian I had to use obfuscate, while the Gangrel was able to walk around those guys unnoticed. Strange, isn't it? Is it just my version of the game, or is this a known problem or bug? At the moment I'm playing the Ventrue girl, and she is even spotted by Shawni and her boyfriend! With a sneek skill of 5!

Take care
k.rush


Are you sure you're doing it the same way with both male and female characters? Sneak isn't like obfuscate. It's tactical. Success or failure depends on where you are, where they are, what you're doing, what they're doing, and who is looking where. Patience is the key.

I play female exclusively these days, and I've never had any trouble, aside from the obvious stress of being crouched in plain sight while people wander around me doing absolutely nothing but willing myself not to panic, or move, or look conspicuous. Sometimes it's really hard not to turn around and look behind you, but sometimes that's all that's required to blow your cover.

Keep an eye on the status bar on the left side of the screen. Yeah, that one. I look as that as my vampiric 'space', within which I am aware of whether or not there is somebody nearby, and whether they're approaching or moving away. Then I just pick my moments. Sometimes that means I remain motionless in one place for several minutes of Real Time waiting for the precise instant to move. Sometimes I sneak right past somebody with my heart in my mouth praying I can just get to that next shadow before they turn around and spot me, but that's the challenge, isn't it?
"No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style." Steven K.Z. Brust, "Jhereg", ISBN 0-441-38553-2, Chapter 17, prologue.

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pennypincher
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Postby pennypincher » Thu Nov 23, 2006 9:07 am

I often find myself staring at woman...

... As a result, I often find woman try to hide from me...

There could be an answer to your problem in that... Maybe.
I was Diablorised once. I got better.

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Postby Celacena » Fri Nov 24, 2006 10:59 am

I have never found any difference between the sexes - I like to play the female ones because I like to watch the PC strut her stuff and I always have the lesbian option rather than blood-snogging guys. the women in the split-leg dresses definitely do for an erotic quick snack.


sneaking can be nerve-wracking, yet sometimes you can crouch right next to somebody for ages without being spotted. trance is a pretty handy discipline though.
"All the world's a stage and all the men and women merely players"

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Anaximander
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Postby Anaximander » Fri Nov 24, 2006 12:55 pm

What version of the game are you running? Official 1.2, or do you have the unofficial patches installed?

Back when I was running 1.2, it always seemed to me that certain clans were better at sneaking than others. My Tremere, for example, snuck through the entire game with no more than 3 points in the stealth feat. My Ventrue with 5 points in stealth was spotted by everyone, even from halfway across the damn map.

This was quite a while ago, however, so it could have just been a problem of perception on my part.
[color="Red"]".... for I had seen the Human face of the Vampires, and now I beheld the monstrousness of these Men..."[/color]

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fable
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Postby fable » Fri Nov 24, 2006 12:58 pm

pennypincher wrote:I often find myself staring at woman...

... As a result, I often find woman try to hide from me...


You've been spending too much time staring at the drawing of the girl on the box copy, mate. :D I think what you're describing is actually mirrored in character stats, rather than male/female player choices. If anything, I'd expect the truly repulsive vampire clans (and you know who you are) would attract more attention, developing a kind of inverse charisma. But that's not found in the game.
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Postby pennypincher » Sat Nov 25, 2006 9:51 am

.... Huh sorry? I was looking at this picture on the box....

He he he. Seriously thou, yes I agree, a disgusting Nossie freak does draw the eye a little more then a beautiful person. After all, I see beautiful people all the time, but I don't see abominations of nature that often.

Corse, I'd like to keep it that way...
I was Diablorised once. I got better.

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K.Rush
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Postby K.Rush » Mon Dec 11, 2006 6:20 am

Thanks for your replies, folks. Some were helpful, some not so much ;-)
I know how sneaking works, everything with this little bar next to the health bar, the green, yellow and red light and so on. I had no problems with sneaking when I played my male characters, they were Brujah and Gangrel, it worked out just well. I just thought that it might have something to do with gender when both of my female chars, Malkavian and Ventrue, were not really able to move unnoticed. And at least my Malkavian had much higher sneak skills than my Brujah or Gangrel! Do you think it might have something to do with the clan? But why should Brujahs be able to sneak while Malkavians are not? Doesn't sound very convincing to me...

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Postby Jhereg » Sun Dec 24, 2006 5:26 am

K.Rush wrote:Thanks for your replies, folks. Some were helpful, some not so much ;-)


I've recently been trying out a few different things to see if there are any little yoinks or boodles I've been missing out on. I nominally play Tremere Female at all times, and I think I've found something interesting.

First, through the entire life of the game, I now only collect 3 armors. Original clothes, the leather from Fat Larry, and the Body Armor from Heather. The reasoning is pretty simple. Everything above the brown leather lowers dex, and a Tremere can never have dex higher than 4 in the first place - I don't like to put additional limits on my limitations.

However, I was doing the garage, in the Brown Leather, as is my normal wont, an I was having trouble in a particular section. I was in shadow, crouched, and simply had to wait for a patrol to pass, but they were always spotting me. This time around, I've been driving up disciplines at a sacrifice to everything else, so my sneak isn't that high.

Finally, I doffed the leather and went back to the little black dress. I dropped and ... they didn't see me. Black on black instead of tan on black. I suspect that perhaps the colors of your clothing have an effect of your ability to stay concealed, as well as your sneak feat. Obviously, the higher your sneak feat, the less important that would be.

This leads me to believe that some of the perceived differences in sneak ability (obviously not compounded by obfuscate) have less to do with clan than with clothing. The Tremere Female starts off with a LBD, and perhaps that gives her an early advantage in sneak even over the Tremere Male - not because of Clan or level or sex, but because of clothing. A crouched Tremere Female in an LBD is effectively a little blob of black in a shadow (black dress, black shades, black hair - the crouch would cause the dress to hide the bare midriff, the lower face could be concealed behind the knees, the arms tucked under the skirt). A shadow within a shadow. Compare this to a Malk Female in the flamboyant cowboy outfit. A bit rough to be inconspicuous in a get-up like that.

Perhaps others who are experts in playing other clan/sex combinations could try a few comparisons - dark outfits on dark backgrounds versus light outfits on dark backgrounds - low contrast versus high contrast. A few comparative studies on the various combinations could be quite enlightening, and perhaps give us a glimpse into a level of subtlety that I normally wouldn't expect of a game designer, but wouldn't surprise me a bit coming from these people. A fairly simple table of clothing versus lighting used to weight detection during sneak would not be that hard to pull off.
"No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style." Steven K.Z. Brust, "Jhereg", ISBN 0-441-38553-2, Chapter 17, prologue.

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Postby theBlackDragon » Sun Dec 24, 2006 11:12 am

Hmmz, I never had problems at Metalhead studios, not even when I went in with the heavy leather, for me it was just a matter of correct timing and appropriate usage of Trance, however.

I did have problems when I did Larry's quest, I managed to sneak all the way down in the heavy clothing (the light leather also lowers dex afaik, at least it does with the latest official patch) but when I dropped from the last grate the guys always noticed me. I managed to fix that by beefing my dexterity with Blood Buff so I could drop down withouth being noticed and grab the suitcase, the previous time I played through with an even lower sneak I didn't get noticed, afaik I was wearing the heavy leather then (or the standard clothing, I don't really remember)

Now, it's also a fact that my character had a pretty darn low sneak skill (Stealth 2, Dexterity 1 + a bonus form some item, making for a sneak of 3-4, depending on the time in the game) but I still managed to sneak my way through most stealth missions (I did all Mitnick's for instance, only the Imalia quest wouldn't work, so I skipped that one)

Another problematic one was the one in the Theatre, even when crouched behind the crates where I could inmpossibly be seen (I thought) I got spotted when the guard passed by, the previous time I did that quest (also as Tremere) I think I was wearing the heavy leather (which is black) with an even lower sneak skill (only 2, that is calculating in the -1 dex from the armor) and the guard didn't notice me, so yes, it would seem the colour of clothing has some influence. Or we're both imagining things (bad luck and all that, because when all is said and done sneaking is based a lot on planning and luck)
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Postby Jhereg » Mon Dec 25, 2006 5:32 am

theBlackDragon wrote:Hmmz, I never had problems at Metalhead studios, not even when I went in with the heavy leather, for me it was just a matter of correct timing and appropriate usage of Trance, however.

I did have problems when I did Larry's quest, I managed to sneak all the way down in the heavy clothing (the light leather also lowers dex afaik, at least it does with the latest official patch)


I'm not certain if the European version is different, but in the NA 1.2 official, the light leather increases armor class by +1 - nothing else.

theBlackDragon wrote:but when I dropped from the last grate the guys always noticed me. I managed to fix that by beefing my dexterity with Blood Buff so I could drop down withouth being noticed and grab the suitcase, the previous time I played through with an even lower sneak I didn't get noticed, afaik I was wearing the heavy leather then (or the standard clothing, I don't really remember)


Just off-hand, you seem to do some of these quests after you get to Hollywood. In the NA 1.2 patch, the heavy leather you buy from the convenience store in Hollywood. Before Hollywood, the light leather is the best armor you can get. Again, given my version. I know that in some of the unofficial patches things have been changed around quite a bit.
"No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style." Steven K.Z. Brust, "Jhereg", ISBN 0-441-38553-2, Chapter 17, prologue.