Ideas/Discussion for Fable 2 ***NO SPAM***

This forum is to be used for all discussions pertaining to any of the titles or expansions within Lionhead Studios' Fable series.
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Obsidian
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Ideas/Discussion for Fable 2 ***NO SPAM***

Postby Obsidian » Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:59 pm

Here's a place to put things you'd like to see for Fable 2.

Ideas and such.

The rules here:
1) NO SPAM. I will delete any spam the moment I see it. So don't waste my time. Multiple violations will result in banning.

2) Make serious posts

3) Post in your best english. It's a pet peeve, but it makes reading anyones serious ideas extremely hard.

More rules may follow as I see appropriate.

That said, what improvements would you like to see in the next generation of Fable?
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Postby 3V1L 0N3 » Mon Mar 21, 2005 3:31 pm

ideas...

gameplay

i'd like to see longer gameplay, anything from 24hrs+ would be a nice amount of time! the majority of RPG's take ages to complete, Fable sadly lacked this ability... longer gameplay in Fable II would definatley encourage existing fans to buy it, as well as bring some new ones!

character development

the character development wouldn't need much changing, many people want it to be as in-depth as The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind, but i think that would ruin Fable's style and make it too much like the rest... being individual counts in RPG's!

the levelling of stats and abilities are fine, nothing really needs to be changed about those, too much change again! just a few more abilities maybe? some more expressions would be a sweet bonus as well...oh ok, so maybe some things do need changing!

NPC interaction

a few more phrases would make Fable II so much better than the first, we've all had a right chuckle at some of the daft sayings in Fable, so keep them coming LH!

how about raising a Child with a Spouse? i've had this discussion with many friends, at least 20 or so, and we all agreed that some more interaction with your Wife/Wives would make the game seem a bit more sophisticated!

not receiving any Dowry for marrying a male! what's with that? does LH think being homosexual doesn't deserve money in Fable? it should be just the same as marrying a female, equality and all that!

same with not being able to kill every Villager, including children! Fable allows you to marry and have sex with males but not kill children!? don't take this the wrong way though, it is only a game after all! this is just because of not being able to own all of Bowerstone, without using Cheats i mean...

graphics

if only all RPG graphics were as good as Fable's, enough said!

gender

a certain friend (you know who you are) keeps moaning about not being able to play a female character! it would be nice to stare at her pert... anyway, yeah, a female character!

legendary weapons

oh how i've always wanted to sell the Legendary Weapons i don't like/use! and i know i'm not the only person this bugs, i've heard and seen plenty of post-game whinges about this subject! maybe something to consider eh?

dual weapons

a nice little idea my mate and i were having! a one-handed weapon in each hand, to totally annihilate the enemy... with a couple of feats associated with dual weapons as well!

that'll do for now, my brain is aching! lol

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Postby Faust » Mon Mar 21, 2005 4:38 pm

Personally, I liked Fable in terms of graphics, customization options, combat, and the general "feel" of the world. However, the game seemed like a shell to me. I would have liked to see a substantial amount of content added -particularly in terms of cities, NPCs, side quests, and the central quests.

First off, the game's central story was painfully short. A few more surprises in the story, coupled with a longer duration would have made the game much more interesting. It was also too limited in geographic space. Personally, I would think that an adventurer would explore a wide geographic area and interact with a multitude of types of people in the course of forty years. It's my hope that Fable 2 addresses these problems.

I'd add that I found the actual quests in Fable a bit redundant, as well. You basically go into a given area and slaughter everything. Occasionally, you need to protect someone or something, and there are a few combat twists. However, having some quests more negotiation or stealth oriented or having more mystery elements might add some variety to the game.

Along those lines, I'm not crazy about the aging process in Fable. I like the central concept of the game, which is playing a character from childhood until old age. However, I would have been happier if the main story, and not random leveling up, advanced your age. I was not thrilled with paying one visit to the guild and suddenly jumping from ages 22 to 28 in an instance. It seemed so fabricated, particularly when no one around me was aging. It would have been better, in my estimate, if the main character had gained age with story elements. This would have allowed NPCs to be “aged” along with the main character and, subsequently, made this core concept of the game shine in the way it should.

Secondly, I'm of the firm conviction that fascinating NPCs and city setting are at the heart of any good RPG. The cities that existed in Fable were quite small, and generally uninteresting after you got past the novelty of the average citizen's six lines of dialogue.

It would have been nice to see more interesting NPCs in the cities. In general, Fable was painfully short of meaningful NPCs. In fact, I can probably name all of the actual named characters with ease. It would be nice, in a Fable 2, to have more characters with actual identities to interact with (both story important characters, and color characters). For that matter, I think the henchmen you can hire should have more distinct and interesting personalities; perhaps more akin to NWN henchmen or some such thing.

Similarly, having more interesting things happen when you make big steps (i.e. become a shop or home owner, get married, etc.) would be good. Wouldn't it be fun to have a family you can raise? Perhaps, your children become living NPCs who need your help in various aspects of your life. Perhaps, you have actual dialogue oriented interactions with your spouse. Likewise, isn’t owning a shop more involved than simply collecting rent? You get my point. There just needs to be more to do in these milestones of your life.

Likewise, the cities could have been enriched by more interesting mini-games. The actual pub games are pretty ...well.... horrible, in my opinion. If the mini-games had been more entertaining it could have at least added the illusion of more content.

In terms of customization, I was pretty happy with how Fable did it. Perhaps, tattoos could have more than just an aesthetic affect, though. Likewise, the ability to have scars treated, armor dyed, and hair color customized would have been nice. Finally, the ability to play as a female would be nice for gamers so inclined.
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Postby Raumoheru » Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:46 pm

24+hours is NOT enough. i am a serious RPG gamer, i want a serious RPG game. Give me 100+ Hours then we can start talkin about playing fable again.

we need TONS more missions to take, and more chances to have party members. the weak mercenaries they gave us just didnt fly with me, we need stronger people who can fight, or better yet, have a healer running around with us.

instead of party members making u pay every "hour" they should be recruitable with the more fame you have, having to negotiate a bit at first but when you are famous and above they practically beg you to let them join.
but if you treat them poorly they will leave you.
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Solid355
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Postby Solid355 » Mon Mar 21, 2005 7:22 pm

Character evolution:
This is what I would like to see in fable 2, first, the character must evolve with every action that he make, as when he use strenght he get's stronger and get biger muscles or when he sleep too much he get very tall. I would like to see also that to level up don't need to go to any portal to spend all your experience, I would like something like in real time after the each battle.
And the most important. The mode online figth with other people would be very very cool!!!. (In real time) :cool:
:cool: :D :) :rolleyes: ;) :p :mad:

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Postby Ducky02 » Mon Mar 21, 2005 9:37 pm

i agree with all the above =P

i understand that there is only a limited amout of space you have to work with, but it was still very possible to make the game longer, thus having a more complicated storyline that explained in depth more about the bloodline and other things.

The graphics are simply amazing for this game, no need to change that.

also, the character was a bit bleak. im not asking for you to be able to change every aspect of him (or her) because that would surely take away from the character graphics, but simple things like possibly hair colour and the like.

One thing that really annoyed me was the battle scars, they should be able to heal if you wanted.

another good point is the cities/civilians or whatever you call them.. NPC..
more interraction needed here! i was suprised thaqt the only dialog with your wife was getting married, other than that she was just a person you shared the house with, and has more than the usual few lines (unlike average NPC's)

The cities were rather small tho, and should have more options. i agree with faust, different buildings should have a different lifestyle, not just collecting rent on daily rounds.

Maybe even make it possible to become more of a merchant, and settle down to your own shop for a while, or possibly as retirement?

Lastly, Quests!
more of them needed, i realized this when i was searching up due to some struggling, that there are very few quests, and all, like faust said, was basically go in and kill everything, aside from a few where you had to defend. there should be different types of quests, possibly ones that vary with your alignment. if you are an evil lord, saving a grandmother's grandson would not be top concern.

i hope iv included all i can think of :p

But Fable is an amazing game, thats just what believe would make it a Super Great Game :D
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Postby penguin_king » Tue Mar 22, 2005 12:23 pm

there area few things that got to me about this game, one is the lack of sheilds, thunder has one, the blacksmith in bowerstone south is "apparently" selling them.

another is spears/staffs maze and whisper both have them

also, capes. in the final fresco you see your hero wearing a cape.
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Postby joeko » Wed Mar 23, 2005 3:49 pm

Well said... all ideas up in here have covered pretty much all of what could be added in case there's a follow up to this great game although I would really like to see Fable 2 take a completely different turn, it'd be amazing if these guys would do the ante.

Imagine yourself being able to play as JoB from childhood, in the Old Kingdom growing up with hundreds of other Heroes, learning as a comunity, fighting the Arena several times to prove yourself worthy of being called a Hero having moved from lands far away and having conquered Albion and settling down the Old Kingdom.. finding out that JoB was the son of the last king who chose to ban JoB from the Old Kingdom due to its corruptiveness and giving preference to your mother, yes Scarlet Robe is JoBs sister, your uncle, you are prince and by having Royal blood you may bring the Old Kingdom back from the ruins.

Find out the history behind Briar Rose, Thunder and Whisper.. who's whisper's dad??? JoB mayber? what happened to her mother? how did the guild master become the guild master? did he fight some1 to dead? did he born under the sign of the guild? I would definitely like to see the history behind the story, bring it all the way up to fable and if possible take the saves from Fable and give you a head start, if you have all the EXP maxed out make you double it up.. if you are 65 y/o let the game grow old to 100 y/o.. create quests in which you will need to have first completed a series of side quests.. just like with the frying pan.. give it a meaning.. could that be the missing piece to open a gate to the next closest land? was your father a chef?

Basically.. I want the history behind this Fable to be revealed.. I know I'm setting myself to dissapointment but hey we all have our own hopes and ideas... I'll add more some other time :D

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Oh yes.. let you dieeeeeeeeeeeee and let your son continue the story and so on.... if you aint got a son then your wife.. if you don't have a wife then you get to pick who to continue playing with from the characters you've most interacted with.. can you imagine playing as the bard and training the bard into a hero... a singing Hero!! lmao :D yeah I know I have a wild imagination.. peace out
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Postby Frost Drake » Thu Mar 24, 2005 2:42 am

I'd like if they released a development environment because the Fable engine is good, then I can start modding without restrains of the law. Also, everyone would be able to built their own towns and download other peoples through Xbox Live.

That would indeed be... heaven + pwn FF... hard.

Imagine if they let us mod it, we can have Master Chief as Hero, or the Arbiter even, now that's my kind of 'Fable'.

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Postby Ducky02 » Thu Mar 24, 2005 7:46 am

lol
agreed, but the more fable can be 'modded', the less it becomes an rpg. what fun is it when youv got 250 maps and towns going around? but hey i guess it could work out, bfme online is pretty cool and half he maps are made
im a map-maker myself =D
alright alright
but i still believe that fable should become more of an expansive-rpg than a famous online game
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Postby penguin_king » Thu Mar 24, 2005 7:50 am

if fable were an online game, what fun would it be? i mean a million heroes in each map isnt the greatest but getting help from your friends is a good idea, maybe a system link function for co-op quests?
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Postby Ducky02 » Thu Mar 24, 2005 5:45 pm

yup =) Obs deleted my spam so il say something relative

iv just finished the game, and found it very dull after you get through the thrill of owning pretty much everything and marrying everyone

maybe some post-game quests / plot would keep people playing it even longer? and im sure iv mentioned this somwhere, but you get to choose your destiny (more variety than good/evil) like a shopkeeper? that would be cool, being a shop keeper. or possibly guildmaster/ hero trainer?

would be a good thought i think =)
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Postby joeko » Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:35 pm

It'd be far out to see them create a never-ending engine.. creating a quest which once completed triggers a new quest and so on, this way we could still have quests after having completed the main story.
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Postby Darth Coran » Fri Mar 25, 2005 8:35 pm

Everybody has covered everything I wanted to say,but after looking over the posts its maddening that NOBODY ASKED FOR DIALOGUE OPTIONS!Your Character,Hero or Villain of Albion,never says a word,and for that matter,if he is able to speak in F2 we should get to choose different options.
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Postby Frost Drake » Fri Mar 25, 2005 10:51 pm

[QUOTE=Darth Coran]the MC's recharging shields would be like having a self-sustained physical block 24/7...I'd love to see a bandit actually stand his ground when he see's a 7 foot tall man in ungodly armor with a sword twice his size,or a twinblade take on an alien in ancient armor with a blade of pure light.[/QUOTE]
It won't be forever, it will only replace mana as 'shield' and mana recharging faster. What I'm saying is that if we are able to mod the game we can make different stories instead of the original one set for the game which would increase longitivity.

We could also make side-quests and such for different people.

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Postby Ducky02 » Sat Mar 26, 2005 6:36 pm

yes but that would mean that they would need to create a worldbuilder as well as the actual game. plus they would need to make it online enabled all that would probably take away from the game, seeing they were already limited in the first one. and if they made the next fable ok but with an awesome online feature, then we would be complaining about how the plot was no better or longer than the first. the only solution to this would be if they decided to release it on x-box 2, but that will be quite a long wait, and only if x-box 2 had an even better game memory and such.

basically ,itl be complicated to satify everyone with what they want to see =P
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Postby Polyphemus » Sat Mar 26, 2005 8:07 pm

Improvements for Fable to be transitioned to Fable 2:

1. Far too short and not enough story depth:

This game was almost comically short for an RPG. Getting through any Role Playing Game in under ten hours should be flat out impossible. Add to this the comparatively (to other more in-depth RPGs) thin main storyline, absence of true side-quests, limited character progression, and predictable nature of the main story structure, it winds up being a (again, comparatively) pretty weak gaming experience.
It would have been nice to see some sort of branching storyline that changes circumstances when persuing the altruistic path or defiling your soul with evil deeds, more options with spouses than sex and abuse, some tweaks to the writing to make it more concise and less fantastic or dramatic, and some real NPCs that you can feel like you're truly interacting with.

2. A streaming transition between sections of the map:

This was a pretty big problem for me as I always play video games very critically, and at the same time as if I were inside the world (suspending disbelief and all). The requisite loading of every section of the map really broke up the continuity (congruency?) of the experience and made me care less about what happened where I was coming from because it took so long to get where I was going to. In other words, It just wasn't fun hitting a twenty or thirty second load space when I was just running from section to section of the map. As this game was in development for five years or so, I would think that they could have found a way to do this. San Andreas loads an entire city in the time it takes Fable to load a small map, and while Fable has more graphical detail, it is still not defendably true to say that there is nothing that could have been done.

3. Storyline brickwall:

At a certain point in the game the story just hit a wall. There was nothing that could be done other than the main missions, and for an supposedly open-ended game like Fable, this is inexcusable. Add to this the fact that there are no real missions to accomplish after the end of the story, it ends pretty abruptly.
(Fable 2 idea: Having some sort of office in every town where locals come to complain about their problems and offer rewards for solving them. Like a bounty office, but one that specializes in more than just assassination missions. This could include spy missions where you need to sneak around to gain information, running protection for businesses, helping villagers raise money to open a business, run a bake sale, whatever a creative mind could think up...)

4. More specialization in armour and tattoos:

People have a wider range of emotions than enthusiastic applause and crippling fear when confronted by your character. For instance, in Fable there are multiple tattoos that have different descriptions (assassin by night, Bowerstone nobility, fertility, etc.). Having different tattoo sets could cause villagers to talk with you about more specific things, ask you to complete tasks for them based on your appearance, etc. Wearing bright leather armour makes them see you as a ranger of sorts, to be moderately respected, but also at ease with. Dark Platemail causes people to show you respect and hold their tounges. This was done to a degree in Fable, but some more emphasis on it would make the experience much more enveloping.

5. OTHER AREAS OF THE MAP:

Being able to visit other areas of the map without having a modded XBox and industry-standard programming skills is crucial, CRUCIAL, to any immersive RPG experience. Especially seeing that the other sections have names and could have maps that go along with them, and showing the entire world map and having a quarter of it be accessable, makes the game feel weaker. If more time was focused in on getting these areas into the release version of the game and less on designing different haircuts and tattoos, then this would have been a much stronger game.

6. More longevity, NPC aging, siring children, making real friends:

All of these rolled into one. Reaching the age of 65 with white hair by the tenth mission in the game should be impossible. I for one need to be able to relate somewhat to my character in any game, certainly and particularly in an RPG, and I find it harder to relate to a wrinkled, faded senior citizen than to a black haired, devious miscreant. My spouse also stays the same age regardless of the age of my character, which doesn't seem right. The ability to have sex seems like a fun past-time, but without the ability to see anything come from it other than incessant pillow talk every time I see my "wife" detracts from the experience and makes it get old quick. And I would have loved to be able to really recognize different villagers, differentiate between them, and know one better than another. Maybe a few limited dialogue options in the Expressions list,e.g. "how you doing?/Hi to the wife./Job going well?, etc.", having some more ranged and different gifts than chocolates and roses, to give to good friends, not prospective lovers, just a more rounded experience in dealing with other people in the game. When the bandits say, "This could be the start of a terrifying friendship." I would like for that to have some truth to it.

Improved Stealth:

Have the stealth in the game be more pervasive, not having people spin around unprovoked and stare at you while you try to stealth kill them. This is one of the more annoying, albeit minor, problems I had with Fable, wearing the assassin outfit should turn you into an assassin. This means a system recognizing when people's backs are turned, a way to kill enemies with one hit, and maybe even some varied animations for this action if we're lucky.

Arrows stick, magic burns, and cuts scratch:

Not necessarily in that order, or limited to those examples. All I mean by this is resolving one of the problems that most games face: realistic damage to the character. Scars is a good start, and something that most games (maybe no games now that I think about it) have implemented. But what about an arrow sticking into your character's arm or heart, and having damage based on where the attack lands.

In the same vein, magic attacks should have some sort of visible effect on your hero. This could be as simple as some scars that are specific to magic attacks, or more complex. I am no game designer, but Fable has one of the world's best and most innovative designers working on it, with a team of highly trained and creative specialists working on it. How about expanding on some of the ideas put forth in Fable.

Other than these, there are obviously hundreds of other ideas that could potentially fulfill this game's original claim; to be the best game of all time, RPG or otherwise. As Fable 2 is most likely already in the works in some form or another, I can't wait to see what they come up with.
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Postby Ducky02 » Sat Mar 26, 2005 8:50 pm

just some more..

also, when they said "every action: a consequence" i expected it to have more consequences than achieving good or evil points and having your alignment change, as mentioned before, physical changes! more magic makes the character weaker to physical attacks, and such. more consequences! my nights over now =) tired
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Postby Frost Drake » Sun Mar 27, 2005 2:15 am

This idea is taken from my game(Not in production at the moment, need to find a studio to work for, prototype not done yet due to lack of resources.) but I'll hand it to Fable instead:

Binding weapons, every weapon is made of different ores and each ore have a % value as the damage on the weapon's shape and length. Through actions, the weapons change shape and become good or evil depending on how they are used. Example, if your 100% good through out the game, the weapon bonds to your hand and thus leaving a inventory space. 100% evil, the blade splits in two and can damage two targets simultaneously.

Each point on a weapon have different splash damage, blunt part have usually 5% damage which means if the weapon is 100 dmg for example, and you hit a Knight with plate armour in the chest just with the blunt portion. You would get 500(Knight HP)/5(Weapon Percent)*(100(Plate Chest piece)-77(Plate portion not protecting the area struck)-78(Player strength)*50(Force in area)/*not the real formula*/
and so on and so on, my maths are complicated but you should get the picture, the damage is real time and different.

And offcourse, Vertical and Horizontal attacks.

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Postby penguin_king » Sun Mar 27, 2005 1:21 pm

id like to see bloodstained swords in the game, mayb also the ability to wipe your sword on a dead bandits shirt
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