McCains running partner.

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Xandax
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McCains running partner.

Postby Xandax » Sat Aug 30, 2008 2:20 am

What do people (especially US-ians) think of McCains announcement of Palin as a VP running partner?

I must admit that I was surprised at this turn, despite not following the US politics *that* much, I still do because it will affect the entire world and my own country as well.

It looks to be a "token" election, now that Hillary is out - as an attempt to capture women voters who perhaps dislike Obama defeating Hillary.

What also strikes me as rather strange, is that McCain and his "side" have tried to push the "Obama is inexperienced" agenda, and Palin from what I've been able to dig up is not exactly a poster for experience. Will this inexperience possible end up hurting McCain, due to his age and medical situation? Because if something were to happen to McCain she'd end up president.

Lastly - and most surprisingly - McCain have apparently only met Palin once before, which makes it seem much more like a choice of necessity based on being pressured.

Is it because McCain attempts to cater to the middle segment of voters himself, and then needs a right wing candidate to make those voters content (as I understand she's pretty right wing)? Or is it "just" for the women?
Or both perhaps?

Thoughts/comments?
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Postby Moonbiter » Sat Aug 30, 2008 4:50 am

I think it's blatantly obvious that this is a play for female voters, as McCain has been struggling with the "not another old coot in the White House" issue. Only time will tell if this was a smart choice. Politically she's closer to "Ilsa, she-wolf of the SS" than anything else. She's rabid right-wing, married to an oil tycoon in Alaska of all places, and has been known to ridicule environmental issues. To the hardcore Republicans she's a dream come true, but to the swing-woters who were undecided she might be the thing that tips them towards Obama. Now the real ugliness can commence, and I can't wait to see what dirt they're gonna dig up this time. The last 5-10 presidential elections have been increasingly more about scoring cheap political points and flag-waving for the yokels. People up here are actually placing bets on when the first bimbo is gonna show up and claim to have had kinky sex with one of the candidates... :rolleyes: :laugh:
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Postby Xandax » Sat Aug 30, 2008 7:13 am

But the question is - if it was for the female votes, then why select such a polarized woman. Many women who supported Hillary, I would suspect would be more liberal regarding their rights (pro-choice for example), then they'd be hardcore conservative.
Unless of course - the political climate is *that* shallow that "women = good" regardless of actual position.

To me it looks much more as a ploy for the very right wing then the woman as such, but perhaps it is both flies with one rock? Giving McCain the possiblity to play both the central "republican democrats" while having Palin catering to the right wing.
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Postby rmemmett84 » Sat Aug 30, 2008 7:43 am

Moonbiter wrote:She's rabid right-wing, married to an oil tycoon in Alaska of all places, and has been known to ridicule environmental issues. To the hardcore Republicans she's a dream come true,


This is why I like here. :)

As far as the "married to an oil tycoon" thing I believe her husband merely works for an oil company. I don't think he owns one.

If McCain wins I don't think we have to worry much about his health. He'll be fine for 4 years. Obama on the other hand may need to worry about this. If not from some racist kook then an inside job funded by a nympho former president and his shrill wife. Honestly if I were him I'd worry more about the latter. :eek:
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Postby DaveO » Sat Aug 30, 2008 8:59 am

Personally, I thought McCain's pick was a shrewd move but since most of the emphasis and coverage has been on Obama as the media darling he's the likely Presidential victor. And you can't tell me that the Democrats are so shallow that there was not an alternate choice besides Hillary as a female VP? No matter who wins, Americans lose with the middle and bottom classes taking the fall as usual. If I've learned anything about politics is that there is no change. Obama can't make any difference in that pattern.

As per the standard election cycle it's a choice between the evil of two lessors.
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Postby penguin_king » Sat Aug 30, 2008 9:59 am

IMO he only chose a woman because Obama has Hilary Clinton, if Obama had chosen a white, male, middle class all-american then McCain would've done the same.

also, it seems to me that Elections (especially in England) seem to be about slating your opponent rather than proving your own worth.
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Postby Lady Dragonfly » Sat Aug 30, 2008 10:07 am

penguin_king wrote:IMO he only chose a woman because Obama has Hilary Clinton, if Obama had chosen a white, male, middle class all-american then McCain would've done the same.


Wha...? Are you aware that Obama's VP is Joe Biden, a white, male, middle class all-american?

& DaveO
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Postby Claudius » Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:24 am

Xandax, I don't think an ultra conservative woman is going to appeal to pro-choice women, that is true. But it might appeal to conservative (leaning) women. For instance someone who grew up whose family votes Republican. But they are irritated by Bush and in danger of going over to the Democratic candidate. Thats how I interpret it.

And as stated possibly soften the image as the party for everyone rather than just for white (rich) men.
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Postby Nightmare » Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:42 am

The pick is rather large gamble by McCain, and I'm not sure it helps him very much. It has helped him somewhat with the GOP base, but I don't think it will draw many women voters away, as most people vote based on their beliefs and not "ooo look its a woman!".

I think it also hurts the ticket. McCain is 72. If he were to die in office, we would have an American President that, not two years ago, was only the mayor of a town of 8,500. That's not a comforting thought, especially after the last eight years.
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Postby Xandax » Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:45 am

Claudius wrote:Xandax, I don't think an ultra conservative woman is going to appeal to pro-choice women, that is true. But it might appeal to conservative (leaning) women. For instance someone who grew up whose family votes Republican. But they are irritated by Bush and in danger of going over to the Democratic candidate. Thats how I interpret it.

And as stated possibly soften the image as the party for everyone rather than just for white (rich) men.


Wouldn't those women already have voted for McCain?
Or do you think their "irritation" with Bush could make them shift Democratic?

I wonder this because the polls I see (yes, I know, polls aren't "good" measurements but basically it is what we have :D ) do seem to point to yet another close race still, despite the disapproval with Bush and the similarity with McCain.

Is she considered an intellectual perhaps? Could be that it is also an attempt to get the intellectual aspect back into the republican side, which have taken a beating with 8 years of Bush being unable to speak properly. I know the republicans have tried to pain Obama as an "ivory tower elitist" much as it appeared they did with Kerry back in 2004. But perhaps that's just how it seems from waaaay "over here" :D
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Postby Claudius » Sat Aug 30, 2008 10:23 pm

I wonder if its mainly kind of an image thing. You know maybe they can appear more progressive. Bringing women into power could appeal to some voters. They worry not only about people voting for Obama but also not voting at all (who would have voted for them). Voter turnout is pretty fricking low as far as I have heard.

It might not seem rational, but people are really passionate about certain things. One issue might be so important to them that it causes them to vote one way or the other and ignore all the other factors.

I have some idea that she was viewed as the best possible choice after some thought. But its hard to believe, isn't it, that they just said "hmmm we need a woman...because they got a black guy". But on the other hand thats maybe what happened haha.
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Postby Xandax » Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:38 pm

Well - what adds to the "strangeness" in my view is that McCain had only met her once.
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Postby galraen » Sun Aug 31, 2008 1:54 am

They may only have met once, but with modern technology that's pretty meaningless.

Her appointment may have taken a lot of people by surprise, but her hat's been in the ring for a while. The Wall Street Journal mentioned her as a possible running mate at the end of July.

As I regard Obama as being far too right wing, my opinion of her is best left unwritten on here though.
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Postby Moonbiter » Mon Sep 01, 2008 1:22 am

Xandax wrote:Is she considered an intellectual perhaps? Could be that it is also an attempt to get the intellectual aspect back into the republican side, which have taken a beating with 8 years of Bush being unable to speak properly. I know the republicans have tried to pain Obama as an "ivory tower elitist" much as it appeared they did with Kerry back in 2004. But perhaps that's just how it seems from waaaay "over here" :D


No, she's the worst kind of home-grown heroine the Americans like to worship: A former beauty queen who fought her way to becoming a Governor at the age of 42 while popping out five babies. All while being out hunting with her NRA buddies and thumping the bible. Never mind the fact that her knowledge of the world is such that if she saw the Eifel tower she'd probably think she was in Vegas. Never mind the fact that she wants to start drilling for oil in the National Preserve. Never mind the fact that she's under investigation for corruption and abuse of power. Those things doesn't matter to a large part of the US population. She's a beauty queen who can kill her own food while giving birth. One of her sons was diagnosed with Downs syndrome in utero which is a dream come through for McCain's anti-abortion campaign. Her oldest son is being shipped to Iraq on... wait for it... September 11. Do not for a moment think that this woman was chosen for any REAL qualities, she was chosen as a mere propaganda tool. Yes Xan, it IS that shallow.
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Postby Xandax » Mon Sep 01, 2008 4:25 am

Moonbiter wrote:<snip>Yes Xan, it IS that shallow.


Hehe.... It does provide perspective at least :D
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Postby VonDondu » Mon Sep 01, 2008 5:07 am

Yes, Xandax, the American political climate IS that shallow. Isn't it obvious by now?

I saw a message at Salon.com (posted by a reader named "mynamehere") which provides an interesting answer to the question, "Who is Sarah Palin?"

"The mother of Bristol, Piper, Track, Willow, and Trig." Alas, where is young Spraynerd?

The Republicans are saying that her six years as mayor of Wasilla, Alaska (population 9780, circa 2007) has provided her with enough executive experience to be Commander in Chief of the United States of America. (Of course they say that.) Here's a picture of Wasilla City Hall. It does look sort of like the White House:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/images/wasillacityhall.jpg

Here's the White House:

http://z.about.com/d/dc/1/0/C/J/whitehouse2.jpg

See what I mean?

On a serious note, for what it's worth, her husband Todd owns a commercial fishing company and works for an oil company. He is also a world champion snowmobile racer. Her son Track, age 19, enlisted in the Army immediately after high school and will deploy to Iraq on September 11.

Sarah Palin is the daughter of a school secretary and a teacher/track coach. She was the point guard and captain of her high school's basketball team, where she earned the nickname "Sarah Barracuda". She won second place in the 1984 Miss Alaska beauty pageant (for which she won a college scholarship) and was voted Miss Congeniality. She earned a B.S. degree in Communications-Journalism from the University of Idaho with a minor in Political Science. She worked briefly as a sports reporter until she went to work for her husband's fishing company. She and her husband supported unions. When she got involved in politics, first as City Council member, then Mayor, then Oil and Gas Commissioner, and then Governor of Alaska, her stated purpose was to fight corruption and graft. Along the way, she gave birth to five children.

When she speaks, she is energetic, poised, and articulate, and she sounds smart. She is very good at thinking on her feet as well as delivering a message. When asked by a reporter what she thinks about the perpetual comments about her good looks, she said that she wears her hair on top of her head and wears "school marm" glasses to make herself look frumpy. I think she'll give Joe Biden a run for his money in the Vice Presidential debate, not because she knows anything, but because I think she can present convincing arguments to undecided voters who don't know anything.

No matter what you think about her lack of experience, her political and religious beliefs, and the allegation that she abused her power by firing Public Safety Commissioner Walter Monegan (allegedly because he refused to fire a state trooper against whom Palin and her family have a personal vendetta--her sister's former husband), and even if you think that she will crash and burn when she runs for national office, Palin's personal history is actually pretty inspiring, even to a "damn liberal" like me. I mean, wow, she's had a busy life. I sure hope she doesn't become Vice President of the United States, but wow.

What about John McCain's personal story? Son of an admiral. Accepted into the Naval Academy, where he graduated at the bottom of his class. Became a Navy pilot (think of "Top Gun") and became notorious for womanizing, partying, and crashing planes. Got married. Went on bombing missions during the Vietnam War, got shot down, and became a POW for seven years, while his wife appealed for help for POWs. After returning to the United States, he still wanted to fly planes against the advice of his superior officers. He became even more notorious for womanizing, partying, and crashing planes. His flying privileges were revoked after his third crash. Then he partied even harder. (No need to be drug-free, I guess.) He began an affair with a young "beer heiress" named Cindy, then divorced his wife (who had been disfigured in an automobile accident) and married Cindy. When it became clear that he would never become an admiral, McCain used money from his new wife's family to launch a political career. Since he's a Republican, nobody cared that he had cheated on his wife and married his mistress. (As the new saying goes, "It's Alright If You're A Republican.") Shortly after becoming a U.S. Senator, he was involved in a big scandal (the "Keating Five"), but he actually became a hero as a result of it because he said he was very sorry and it would never happen again. After he became a national figure, the rest of his political career is pretty well known. Ann Coulter called John Kerry a "kept man" because he married a wealthy wife and "lives off money made by other men", but apparently the same judgment does not apply to John McCain, since he's a Republican. Personally, I think John McCain selected Sarah Palin to be his running mate because he likes hot younger women who are smarter than he is.

Under the circumstances, a lot of people are going to say that Sarah Palin is a pretty good candidate for national office. Don't underestimate "Sarah Barracuda". She could kick Hillary Clinton's ass. Be afraid.

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Postby Xandax » Mon Sep 01, 2008 5:25 am

VonDondu wrote:<snip>
The Republicans are saying that her six years as mayor of Wasilla, Alaska (population 9780, circa 2007) has provided her with enough executive experience to be Commander in Chief of the United States of America. (Of course they say that.) <snip>


It was exactly this reason I started taking an interest in the situation. Because frankly - when critiquing that Obama was "not ready to lead" akin to Hilton and Spears, then such a selection made me puzzle as to what the actual reason behind the nomination was.

Whether it was right-wing politics (aren't there more "qualified" right wing people?), women (more qualified women) or something third.

I do not buy it on face value that it is women and right wing votes, she can't be the most experienced/qualified they can front.

I do think there must be something more under this. I'm starting to think conspiracy, that she wants this to keep her mouth close about something, or that she've donated a lot of money or ..... something. There must be something.
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Postby VonDondu » Mon Sep 01, 2008 5:39 am

Xandax wrote:I do think there must be something more under this. I'm starting to think conspiracy, that she wants this to keep her mouth close about something, or that she've donated a lot of money or ..... something. There must be something.
Aarrggg - logical failure, can't comprehend. Must... Shut ... Down. :laugh:

I told you. John McCain selected Sarah Palin to be his running mate because he likes hot younger women who are smarter than he is. (Did you see him checking out her ass during her acceptance speech?) What's so hard to understand about that?

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Postby Xandax » Mon Sep 01, 2008 5:53 am

VonDondu wrote:I told you. John McCain selected Sarah Palin to be his running mate because he likes hot younger women who are smarter than he is. (Did you see him checking out her ass during her acceptance speech?) What's so hard to understand about that?


Hehe - well .... although it did literally make me laugh out loud, then ...."hot younger women" might be relative to McCain then.
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Postby Ashen » Mon Sep 01, 2008 6:09 am

I wasn't so surprised when they announced her, as I have read about her before, she was mentioned in passing in one of the papers here as a possible, but highly unlikely candidate. At the time I thought no way, but then again, if you look at the surface she fits pretty well with the Rs and all that ... they call politics etc.

On a personal note I was appalled, not surprised but appalled. Talk about a disaster. I am not sure what gets me the most, but I think the final drop was that refusal to abort the baby God gave me line, even though the child is sick. I am sure the nanny is taking real good care of him, while Momma is off doing God's work. Disgusting really. Oh well...
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