Why are dragons so easy?

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XtraniuM
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Why are dragons so easy?

Postby XtraniuM » Mon Jan 01, 2001 5:06 pm

shouldnit a dragon kill the entire party with ease?

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Alienbob
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Postby Alienbob » Mon Jan 01, 2001 5:10 pm

If your party sucks than a dragon will kill them all with ease

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magusg
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Postby magusg » Mon Jan 01, 2001 5:22 pm

I don't know about you, but I've gone into Firkraag's lair at high level and still gotten my ass whooped, until I experimented and finally beat him. In my opinion, anything with lich or dragon in its name is a worthy foe. Even though I'm at the cap, liches occasionally still get the best of me on the first try. But then again, it may be different for me since I have a party of only two fighters, and four mages. The use of magic is arbitrary at best, since the type spells you have memorized can mean the difference between an easy victory and a total rout.

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XtraniuM
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Postby XtraniuM » Mon Jan 01, 2001 5:43 pm

my point was that shouldn't dragons be much harder to kill? being one of the most powerfull monster in ad&d...

[This message has been edited by XtraniuM (edited 01-01-2001).]

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Postby magusg » Mon Jan 01, 2001 5:48 pm

I suppose you have a point there. But the size and age of a dragon are major factors. A dragon continues growing in size and power for its entire life. It only grows feeble at the very end, to the best of my knowledge, and even then continues to grow in magical power. Of course, a hatchling would be nothing for even a mildly experienced band of adventurers, while the ancient ones would be like demigods. If Firkraag is one of the younger variety (mature, but not yet advanced in years), then his power might not be underestimated in BG2.

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Omar
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Postby Omar » Mon Jan 01, 2001 5:52 pm

Yes,of course,but there is also something called frustration! How would you feel encountering a nigh invincible dragon and having to reload forever; or worse:leaving him be and retreating!!!
If I were a dragon, and six adventurers were challenging me I would use these attacks:
---with my jaws I would bite of heads and limbs
---with my tail I would crush those fragile,robe-wearing spellcasters
---trampling!!!
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Drakron Du´Dark
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Postby Drakron Du´Dark » Mon Jan 01, 2001 6:11 pm

I best reply.
Well looking in the monstrous manual the red one is age 6, an adult dragon with 101-200 years old, the same for the shadow one. if someone knows the xp for the others I can look up in the book and give more info.
And if you are going to use the dragon attacks I point out that a party would attack diferents parts of the dragon body diableing it´s breath weapon, wing attack, and others.

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[This message has been edited by Drakron Du´Dark (edited 01-01-2001).]
- Waterdeep city constrution.

- Shadowdale low level adventure module.

- Rashmare /Thay high level adventure module.

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Alienbob
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Postby Alienbob » Mon Jan 01, 2001 6:35 pm

The silver dragon gives u 54000xp

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Postby Drakron Du´Dark » Mon Jan 01, 2001 6:41 pm

Are you sure?
because if you are,there goes the book.
my opinion She is a old one for game balance.

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Postby Alienbob » Mon Jan 01, 2001 6:48 pm

yep im sure. i just killed her again a few minutes ago and she gave me 54000

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Postby fluffy_ferret » Mon Jan 01, 2001 7:05 pm

Dragons easy to kill? Hahah trust me mate, noone has or will ever kill a dragon on the first try(without reading any of the fine strats here of course). Not easy, hard.

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Postby Rail » Mon Jan 01, 2001 10:41 pm

Also keep in mind, how many parties of 17th level characters would there be in the world? Not many. Maybe 4 or 5? This goes back to my gaming experience, but I once got a character to 12th level after years of gaming. Once. After a long time gaming. I know lots of this depends on the DM. Here in the computer, the stats may seem a little skewed, since we're all going through the same story, but I think killing a dragon in either game (PNP or computer) is quite a feat! Easier in the computer than PNP, but still not easy.
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Postby Curdis » Mon Jan 01, 2001 11:07 pm

Easy?

Try walking your fully buffed up fighter with all the anti dragon gear straight at the red one. The dragon wins. I was very impressed by the lethality of the dragons and (as a paladin) felt really bad about walking away from Lord F. the first time. Because it is a scripted opponent it will always have a crack that can be exploited (Strategy guide stuff).

As a D.M. (1st edition) I wrote a dungeon for an anicient spell casting red dragon (before wing buffet was a common attack form for dragons AND standard dragon spell casting was limited) and ALWAYS had to have mercy on my player characters. A wing buffet enabled 2nd edition rules PNP anicient spell casting red dragon played with the intelligence listed; a career ending (one way or the other) encounter (if the P.C.'s win then they retire because they were 20th+ level anyway, or ascend to godhood etc.).

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Rail
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Postby Rail » Tue Jan 02, 2001 12:04 am

Try tackling these without the strategy guide, and these creatures are more than adequate. I consider myself pretty good with BG2 strategy, and I reloaded a number of times on my first attempts without reading the strategies.

As a former DM (both 1st and 2nd Ed.), I agree with curdis. These creatures are nearly impossible. As it should be! My players never reached such super levels as 17th, and only once did they successfully take down a dragon. I seriously had to reign myself in to keep them alive, at times, with villans such as dragons. DMing is always a difficult balance between realism and player fun.
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Postby Aegis » Tue Jan 02, 2001 1:18 am

First I would like to say this. In all my years of RPing on systems like Nintendo, and Playstation, I have grown used to being able to reach level 99. Now, I have been playing for a week, and in that time I would've been mid 50's by now. I am only at level 10. So, amen to the hard level gaining, challenge is afoot!

Next...

Are you out of your mind! That Dragon is not an easy feat! I reloaded about 20 some odd times trying to beat him! (I'm also at lower levels then I would've hoped, but hey, thats the fun of the game.) I finally beat using an ingenius combo of Blockheads, and finally, to my dissapointment, magic. I actually had to go to the thing I hate slightly less then Anomen. Socerery! I think that says something about both the difficulty of this game, and the usefullness of magic...

*Wanders off grumbling about his admission to magic...*

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Postby Carrot » Tue Jan 02, 2001 4:09 am

Just kill him with a wand of cloudkill. I killed him on the second shot. First time my wand ran out.

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Postby rumagent » Tue Jan 02, 2001 5:00 am

Dragons too easy?!? Whatever it is you are smoking, I want some Image

Unless you exploit some flaw in the AI (line of sight/cloudkill, faketalk, or whatever), the dragons in the game should prove a match to anyone. If dragons are so easy, howcome there is a section called "defeating dragons"? - not to mention the countless posts on the topic. The very fact that you need some kind of strategy showes that it is a tough monster. A kobold you can attack and forget about, attack a dragon whitout any preparetions and you are more than likely dead within the first 10 rounds (or is it turns or keep mixing them up) - give or take a few depending on your level.


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Postby Carrot » Tue Jan 02, 2001 5:08 am

You have a point there.

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Postby Gruntboy » Tue Jan 02, 2001 5:59 am

Dragons are *not* easy.

You have to take them ou to dinner at least twice.

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Postby Beelzebub » Tue Jan 02, 2001 8:45 am

I was quite disappointed as my cleric (level 14) extinguished the shadow dragon with a finger of death spell the first try. Shouln't they have a higher magic resistence?
I for my part reloaded to kill him old-fashioned style with the sword