why can't mages cast healing spells?

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why can't mages cast healing spells?

Postby Blackrose » Sat Jul 21, 2001 3:48 pm

i know healing spells are the province of clerics, but their gods grant them spells. And what are gods but beings with powerful magic. Magic is magic! i am sure a mage can craft a healing spell. Heck, if i was a mage in Faerun, i would make dam sure to research healing spells. Hmmm, remember Gorion? In BG1 he casts cure light wounds on your character when you leave Candlekeep. Gorion was supposely a human mage!

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Postby Aegis » Sat Jul 21, 2001 3:54 pm

Mages usually spend their time create spells of a non-clerical nature, hence the differation between mage and cleric. You notice how clerics still get some offensive spells, that because the spend their learning magic of a clerical nature.

We could also bring this back to the orignol concept of magic, where their was White magic, being the more restoritive, and clerical type of magic, and black magic, being the more offensive, and destructive type of magic. Over the years game developers have pbviously wished for more of a difference in the magic catagorey, so that seperated it in to Clerical, and Magic, instead of the traditional white and black.

Black magic is also more of a mortal creation then it is a Deity thing. Deities get their power inheirantly, whereas mortals have to learn, and memorize, and even create their power, which is made into the form of magic. Clerics, and priests power is given to them through their god (hence no scroll scribing) and therefore, now anyway, not a real form of magic. It instead is a form of power.

I hope that helps.

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Postby Meerlight » Sat Jul 21, 2001 6:28 pm

Because Healing is considered to be a miracle that only the gods (or alchemists) may give to you. Mages create their own spells and are therefore much more limited. Remember it is by far much easier to destroy something than to heal something.

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Postby pip » Sat Jul 21, 2001 6:35 pm

To Blackrose

Do you remember if the cure light wounds on your charactor done in baldur's gate 1 by gorion was quick? If it was it might have been a special ability (such as what the main chractor may get after having a special dream i.e Gained 1 cure light wounds ability per day).
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Postby fable » Sat Jul 21, 2001 6:46 pm

Because when TSR first got going as a corporation and did the D&D manuals in the 1970's, they wanted to create a class that was all offensive spells and no defensive ones, and a class that was all defensive spells and no offensive ones. These were the prototypes for the mage and priest/cleric, and they were deliberately designed as complimentary and "necessary" for a party.
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Postby Metatron » Sat Jul 21, 2001 8:38 pm

Limited Wish can be used to heal.
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Postby Aegis » Sat Jul 21, 2001 8:50 pm

Yeah, but how many people use it often enough, and only use to heal your party?

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Postby Sabretooth » Sun Jul 22, 2001 12:04 am

This probably isn't relevant but in DSOTSC Mages could cast a spell to heal gradually, kind of like regeneration. I cant remember what it was called but it fell under the Necromancy catagory.
Personally and logically I think Mages should be able to cast healing spells especially if Clerics have the ability to cast some offensive spells. Although on the other hand I can see why Mages aren't allowed to, for the sake of game balance etc.

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Postby GEorGE » Sun Jul 22, 2001 12:28 am

The trick is that clerics are the servants of gods, but mages try to be (small) gods and they don't trouble themselves over petty little details like healing. Take Edwin as an example - he said that death was just a passing or momentary condition, it won't disturb him and his path.
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Postby Xyx » Sun Jul 22, 2001 3:34 am

Healing spells for Mages:
[*]Limited Wish: 20 HP and various ailments (poison, blindness, etc)
[*]Larloch's Minor Drain (cast on self): 4 HP
[*]Vampiric Touch (cast on self): 6d6 HP, unless it glitches, in which case it could be anything from 30-150...
[*]Tenser's Transformation (self): All HP (cast after combat just to heal if need be)
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Postby HighLordDave » Sun Jul 22, 2001 9:40 am

It goes back to the nature of magic versus the divine. In a fantasy world, magic is the prevailing technology (read: science) of the day. That is under the rules for AD&D and AD&D2, until the Time of Troubles and the "wild mages", magic is learned through study, apprenticeship, and is subject to laws, rules, and its own sort of "scientific method." Wizard magic is powered by universal forces and is a naturally occurring phenomenon.

As some of our friends have said before, clerical spells are the province of the gods and granted at their whims. There is no rhyme or reason; they are empowered by a higher being.

Since spirituality and an individual's essence is often seen as the domain of priests, so too is healing and restorations. Mages have a limited command of these forces, but it is usually confined to spells such as Animate Dead or other necromantic magicks.

There are several workarounds for mages, as our friend Xyx has mentioned, but none of these spells are intended to heal someone. The added hit points and such are a side-effect of another power, not their primary purpose. Plus in very few instances (ie-Wish and Limited Wish) can HP be transferred to anyone other than the caster.

There are some other RPG systems where magic-users do have command of healing magicks. For instance, in in Palladium Fantasy RPG and Rifts, there are wizards spells which can be used to heal. PFRPG also has gods, although they are different from the gods of AD&D/D&D3. Rather than being supremely divine beings, they are super-powerful alien intelligences who can transfer some of their powers to followers. It is this subtle difference from AD&D gods (which are full deities in their own right) which enables wizards in other systems to cast healing magicks.

The inability of mages to heal is not accidental; that is not their purpose under the designs of Gary Gygax et al. While some mages may know healing techniques (ie-herbalism, holistic medicines, even basic surgery, etc.), it is priests who are responsible for magical cures.
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Postby Nippy » Sun Jul 22, 2001 10:36 am

@ Sabretooth

The spell was called Ettins Healing, there was also a wand created in DSOTSC.
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Postby Stilgar » Sun Jul 22, 2001 11:24 am

Gorion is a mage/cleric (or was that elminister) IIRC
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