Cleric/Mage vs Sorceror

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Arcane
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Cleric/Mage vs Sorceror

Postby Arcane » Tue Mar 19, 2002 1:42 pm

well im sure this topic has been discussed before but im just too lazy to search.......which is more powerful, the cleric/mage or the sorceror.....

Cleric/Mage:
1.better in the beginninng because of priestly healing spells and hold person.
2.can wear platemail after all the summoning mage spells have been cast and join the melee with DUHM and Righteous Magic and other clerical buffing spells (chant bless aid)
3.can use the clerical buffing spells to buff the minions (skeletons, ogre beserkers, ettercaps)
4.summoun elementals (clerics) summon hakeshars (mages)
i could go on....
sorcerors:
1.harder in the begginning (no cleric spells) 2.smaller spell book
3.smaller spell book causes fewer spells (they HAVE to be selected during a lvl up)
4.cant use sheilds and cleric weapons......

feel free to torch me :D :D :D :D
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Arcane
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Postby Arcane » Tue Mar 19, 2002 3:02 pm

*bump*bump*bump*bump*bump*bump*

come on plzzzzzzz
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Postby dios » Tue Mar 19, 2002 3:35 pm

Just let me point on one thing first: sorcerers are the best, not from the beginnig of the game but in the end and halfway through there is NO other characther that can hope to survir a battle with a sorcerer...

1. sorcerers can cast SIX (6) magis of every level...including ninth.
that means that a sorcerer can cast SIX (6) Abi-Haldim's Horroid wilthning, do you really think that you will survive that?

2. sorcerers casts magis faster than any other maig user in the game, without using Robe of vecna and amulet of Power...

:D
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Postby Casius » Tue Mar 19, 2002 3:45 pm

I have to agree with that. At first, I thought Cleric/Mage would be a good class, but when I tried it, frankly it sucked, beginning to end, except when you have an insane amount of XP. Sorcerer is amazing, especially where he's at a high level, but he's not bad beginning either.

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Postby fable » Tue Mar 19, 2002 3:47 pm

@Arcane, this thread idea is so old that it died last year. If you really want to revive it, we'll probably have to drive a stake through its heart. ;)

Suffice to say, you can hire a damn fine cleric/mage from within the game, but you can't find a sorc, and each serves a very specific and effective purpose. Them's my POV, in any case. :)
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Postby UserUnfriendly » Tue Mar 19, 2002 4:10 pm

yeah, but try cleric mage fighter vs sorc...cleric mage fighters are the ONLY chars capable of taking on a sorc one on one...

quite simply, if both are allowed buffing, the cleric mage fighter has so much more going for them, like righteous magic and chain contingency earth quakes. at some point, the spells will drop from major machine gun from both sides, as cleric mage fighter runs out of chains, but hte sorc will be going strong, but by then the first chain from cleric mage fighter, with breach and khelbens warding whip and acid arrows will kick in , and the sorc will die fast unless the sorc started with mislead and spell immunity. the cleric mage fighter has a good chance of using buffing spells under mislead, so has a chance to rest and prepare next volley once mislead wears off. if either decides on elemental immunity spells and manages to carpet the room with inc clouds, sorc tactic, they could win unless cleric mage fighter manages to cast elemental protection too. finaly, when things are reduced to damage over time spells, it will be a matter of area effect remove magic, whos remove will punch thru protections. one will die brnt, other live...but quite oftn, both WILL DIE...



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Postby Lykwid » Tue Mar 19, 2002 6:31 pm

@Arcane

Clerics of 15th lvl or higher can summon the skeleton warriors with the 3rd lvl animate dead, these are one of the best summons short of plantars and the like IMO at least.

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Postby samcu » Tue Mar 19, 2002 10:23 pm

With or without the exp cap? Multiclass will flatten out any single class with the exp cap off. With TOB installed, c/m can be a better competitor with the right spells. Without TOB or with the exp cap on, c/m will be real crap...
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Postby UserUnfriendly » Tue Mar 19, 2002 10:57 pm

Likwid, one of the first things a sorc or mage cleric knows is to have death spell or death fog mem at all times. even if one of the duel lists summons skellys via spell, that move is so easy to counter its pitiful death spell them, or my fav, death fog. low damage, so rings of regen can easily keep you alive, and kills any summon.

now pit fiends and planetars, that gets tricky, as tehy are resistant to almost anything. thats why in this duel, teh first one to get off a mailison, and symbol stun or fear will win. unless the cleric mage has free action cast, and the sorc has ring of free action.
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Postby dios » Wed Mar 20, 2002 3:36 pm

:( I think that all (almost) of you has forgotten that a sorcerer is the most valuable class in the whole game, there is simply no one that beats a sorcerer i a fair combat...(fair=both has decided to figth, and has intoduced themselves=multiplayer...) NO enemy in the whole game will kick a sorcerers butt...get it! :D
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Postby Astafas » Wed Mar 20, 2002 3:45 pm

Originally posted by dios
:( I think that all (almost) of you has forgotten that a sorcerer is the most valuable class in the whole game, there is simply no one that beats a sorcerer i a fair combat...(fair=both has decided to figth, and has intoduced themselves=multiplayer...) NO enemy in the whole game will kick a sorcerers butt...get it! :D


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Postby Phantom Lord » Wed Mar 20, 2002 4:11 pm

Hmmm, a fighter/thief which is played the way UU plays spellcasters (me points at UU's avatar) could be a serious danger for both. With UAI he can cast any known mage spell except those of level 10. A fighter/mage should prove a worthy opponent too. A fully fledged F/M is pretty much invulnerable and a deadly opponent with weapons as well as with magic. Btw, when people refer about the power of mages they often don't take MR, saving throws and the wondrous results of brute force melee into account. Our friend Johnny made the same mistake ...

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Postby Lykwid » Wed Mar 20, 2002 6:20 pm

@userfriendly

I thought this thread was discussing the merits of the two characters, so my comment about the skells was just to say that the cleric/mage gets them but the sorcerer doesnt.

-Lykwid

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Postby UserUnfriendly » Thu Mar 21, 2002 1:06 am

sorry dude, dont sweat it. I was trying to figure out why that comment was there, and then I realized what you were pointing out was how many great spells a priest can get earlier in the game, so a cleric would get good skellys at lower level than sorc would.

you have to remember that a mage spell table and cleric spell table are shot with duplicated, for example dispell magic and farsight, but also, think armor of faith is identical to spirit armor. I think in the long run the only advantagfe a cleric mage has over sorc is the heavier personal protection he can put up, but in the end, the advantage is so overwhelmingly sorc there is no contest.
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