CHARACTER CLASS HELP

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RVPERTVS
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CHARACTER CLASS HELP

Postby RVPERTVS » Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:04 pm

Hi, this would be my first post on this forum, this site is just great for the TES rookie!

I´m just starting my first run with the character below, I wanted a decent melee warrior, heavy armour-capable and at the same time posessing high magicka levels/resistances, specially on the offensive. Let´s say it´s my custom "battle mage" class, I´ve run trhough the planner and I don´t see much problem though I feel it a bit weak on melee (currently level 3) I-m just asking to please take a look and toss some advice on whether Im wasting my time with this build and should start over with a REAL WARRIOR? I believe the concept could work though.


RVPERTVS


Class..."AlterWarriorMage"
Race... Male Breton
Birthsign...The Lady
Class... Custom
Specialization.... Combat
Fav. Attributes:St and Int


Strength 45
Intelligence 55
Willpower 60
Agility 30
Speed 30
Endurance 40
Personality 40
Luck 50
Health 80
Magicka 160
Fatigue 175
Encumbrance 225

Leveling order intended: End, St & Sp (until 100)


Skills

Armorer 30
Blunt 30
Alteration 30
Illusion 30
Mysticism 35
Light Armor 25
Sneak 25


Athletics 10
Blade 10
Hand-to-Hand 10
Alchemy 10
Conjuration 15
Mysticism 35
Alteration 30
Destruction 5
Restoration 15
Marksmanship 5
Security 5
Acrobatics 5
Light Armor 25
Armorer 30
Block 10
Heavy Armor 10
Mercantile 5
Speechcraft 5


Thanks in advance

R

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galraen
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Postby galraen » Mon Mar 18, 2013 6:28 pm

Wear some heavy armour, definitely a heavy cuirass to make sure endurance geos up as quickly as possible. Use swords and H2H as much as possible to increase strength (buy training if you can afford it) if you just use a blunt weapon you'll end up as a 7 stone weakling character. Use Alteration very sparingly, ditto Illusion and Mysticism or you'll go up in levels too fast and your endurance won't increase adequately.

Remember Alchemy rules, because you didn't make it a major (good move) you can increase that skill very rapidly. Collect and buy ingredients that do shock, fire and health damage as well as healing and magicka restoration.
[QUOTE=Darth Gavinius;1096098]Distrbution of games, is becoming a little like Democracy (all about money and control) - in the end choice is an illusion and you have to choose your lesser evil.

And everything is hidden in the fine print.[/QUOTE]

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Claudius
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Postby Claudius » Mon Mar 18, 2013 7:19 pm

There are mods if you are on pc that fix the problem of majors leveling you too fast and also fixing the fact that if you don't train in 10 ranks in each level you can't get the +5. I hate to mess up vanilla some times, but oblivion really has a problem in the level scaling. There is a problem that is very huge. You can also make the level scaling more like morrowind. If you didn't play morrowind there were a variety of power of enemies. If you took the risk and beat them at low level you would get the treasure. And also some areas the enemies stay at less power so they don't just rise in power the same as the hero.
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Postby GawainBS » Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:34 am

Claudius, which mods would that be? The leveling issue stopped me from touching Oblivion so far. (I want to be able to min/max my character, but I don't want to play counter-intuitive by NOT using my major skills/only using them when I want to level.)

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Postby RVPERTVS » Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:43 am

Thank you guys! your comments and advice are much appreciated! My main concern is wasting time with this build while I can just start over with a different concept.

1.- Do you see any major flaw? would you change anything?

2.- My main issue at level 3 is that he´s not strong enough, I have won a couple of battles in the arena however. I assume it´s not a big difference with a pure warrior class at level 3? Any idea where to get a cheap or free heavy armor at the very beginning?

3.- My second concern is that he´s not dealing much damage with melee weapons (h2h means melee right?) Im dealing damage with Flare to help me out but my destruction skill is growing too fast this way, also I'm getting knocked down a lot.

4.- Maybe following your advice on using alchemy? what potions or alchemy do you recommend to deal more damage and improving melee performance?

I assume it´s going to be this way (unless I made something wrong and have to start over) for the first 6-8 levels, once my endurance and strength get to a decent level and my skills start to develop at a slower pace then I can start to "play" the game more freely.

Thanks in advance

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Postby galraen » Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:04 pm

@ Claudius, pure mages don't, or shouldn't have a problem, it's mainly pure melee types that need to be careful, just don't picj Alchemy as a major and a mage should be fine.

No serious flaw Rupertus, apart from having sneak as a major, as long as you avoid throwqing too many alteration and/or Illusion spells about. By H2H I meant hand-to-hand, if you use blunt weapons exclusively then you'll be lucky to get more than 2 points of strength each level up.

Nothing wrong with destruction improving as you have it as a minor skill, quite the reverse.

It's your acrobatics/agility that reduce the chances of being knocked down, I'd advise concentrating on that after strength and endurance; speed is pretty irrelevant, just letting athletics (another good move having that as a minor) grow should be enough.

It's been a while but off the top of my head, spiddal sticks + impgall + FlyAmanitaCap make a devestating poison, but you need to have 75+ alchemy for that. Harrada or Stinkhorn Cap + Nightshade poison can be made right from the start though and will help; just remember that Argonians are immune to poison. Just keep experimienting, and remember even useless potions can be sold, often for daft amounts of money.

I assume it´s going to be this way (unless I made something wrong and have to start over) for the first 6-8 levels, once my endurance and strength get to a decent level and my skills start to develop at a slower pace then I can start to "play" the game more freely.


Unfortunately because of the levelling system this isn't necessarily true, if you don't get at least 3 strength and endurance points to add every level up it can be the reverse.
[QUOTE=Darth Gavinius;1096098]Distrbution of games, is becoming a little like Democracy (all about money and control) - in the end choice is an illusion and you have to choose your lesser evil.

And everything is hidden in the fine print.[/QUOTE]

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Postby galraen » Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:06 pm

PS It's actually easier to play the game as a mage, and, believe it or not, get a better armour class than any warrior fairly quickly. Just make sure you get all the mage recommendation quests done as soon as possible, so you gain access to spell makers and enchanters.
[QUOTE=Darth Gavinius;1096098]Distrbution of games, is becoming a little like Democracy (all about money and control) - in the end choice is an illusion and you have to choose your lesser evil.

And everything is hidden in the fine print.[/QUOTE]

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Postby galraen » Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:07 pm

PPS
The latter is true for any character really unless you're a role player running a warrior or thief.
[QUOTE=Darth Gavinius;1096098]Distrbution of games, is becoming a little like Democracy (all about money and control) - in the end choice is an illusion and you have to choose your lesser evil.

And everything is hidden in the fine print.[/QUOTE]

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RVPERTVS
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Postby RVPERTVS » Thu Mar 21, 2013 12:14 am

galraen wrote:@ Claudius, pure mages don't, or shouldn't have a problem, it's mainly pure melee types that need to be careful, just don't picj Alchemy as a major and a mage should be fine.

No serious flaw Rupertus, apart from having sneak as a major, as long as you avoid throwqing too many alteration and/or Illusion spells about. By H2H I meant hand-to-hand, if you use blunt weapons exclusively then you'll be lucky to get more than 2 points of strength each level up.

Nothing wrong with destruction improving as you have it as a minor skill, quite the reverse.

It's your acrobatics/agility that reduce the chances of being knocked down, I'd advise concentrating on that after strength and endurance; speed is pretty irrelevant, just letting athletics (another good move having that as a minor) grow should be enough.

It's been a while but off the top of my head, spiddal sticks + impgall + FlyAmanitaCap make a devestating poison, but you need to have 75+ alchemy for that. Harrada or Stinkhorn Cap + Nightshade poison can be made right from the start though and will help; just remember that Argonians are immune to poison. Just keep experimienting, and remember even useless potions can be sold, often for daft amounts of money.



Unfortunately because of the levelling system this isn't necessarily true, if you don't get at least 3 strength and endurance points to add every level up it can be the reverse.



Very concise advice thank you very much!

Why the difference with the blunt weapons?

You´re right, I definitely need to improve on acrobatics before speed, this is one of the main weaknesses of this build IMHO, he´s hitting the ground often during melee combat.

Those would be the Damage Health and an Expert Level poison? I think I can take more advantage of DH at this point.

What I meant is that at lower levels (hopefully until lvl 6-8) I should plan ahead and keep track of every skill improvement more closely, worrying more about pimping my character than playing the game. Later on, when my skills grow at a slower pace I can stop worrying about them for longer periods, during which I will hopefully be able to play the game.

I wouldn't waste part of my life with a mediocre character by the end of the game, if Im playing Oblivion then I want to end up with the most massive warrior-mage possible for my time and particular class... that would be rewarding!

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Postby galraen » Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:33 am

I wouldn't waste part of my life with a mediocre character by the end of the game, if Im playing Oblivion then I want to end up with the most massive warrior-mage possible for my time and particular class... that would be rewarding!


Your build can achieve that.

Why the difference with the blunt weapons?


Because it's a major skill every time you gain a skill point you get that much closer to going up a level; if you use a blade or hand-to-hand that's not the case.

What I meant is that at lower levels (hopefully until lvl 6-8) I should plan ahead and keep track of every skill improvement more closely, worrying more about pimping my character than playing the game.


Not that much monitoring needed, Just make a note of your weapon skills, endurance related skills and skills related to Agility hen you level up. When you start getting close to levelling up again check to see which, if any need extra training.

For example your char is getting close to levelling up, you check you record and see that you currently have increased weapons by 8 points, Endurance skills by 7 points and agility skills by 8 points. Wear nothing but heavy armour, wield blade or open hand. First run around picking locks (the Thieves Den DLC really helps here), if you are on a PC then you can use the console to lock a chest/door etc., select the chest/door type Lock X where X is a number between 1 and 99 depending on the difficulty level you desire. Of course you will need a lot of picks or be damn good at twitching, or alternatively player.additem a 100. Once you've increased Security twice, run around the shoreline beating up mudcrabs (block -bash - block, always block - bash - block even when not training) until your blade/H2H skill goes up by two and your Heavy Armour/Block goes up by three; you could even briefly increase the difficulty level a bit for this exercise. Once all three are at ten cast illusion, Mysticism or alteration spells until you level up, note your skill levels and get back to just playing.
[QUOTE=Darth Gavinius;1096098]Distrbution of games, is becoming a little like Democracy (all about money and control) - in the end choice is an illusion and you have to choose your lesser evil.

And everything is hidden in the fine print.[/QUOTE]

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Postby galraen » Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:50 am

PS Note the above post is relative to powe3r playing not role playing; for role playing it's a lot more rewarding to play a straight mage in this game:

Race Dark Elf (the Fire resistance is just too useful)
Birthsign: Your choice
Favoured abilities: Endurance and Luck (never, ever underestimate luck no matter what your build)
Specialisation: Magic (duh! :D )

Majors:

Destruction
Restoration
Mysticism
Conjuration
Ilusion
Block
Heavy Armour (only wear it when you have to)

Level up time is potion making time, but don't get carried away, the only potions you really need are elemental shields, Health restoration and Magicka restoration, the rest are just for getting your intelligence up.

Use Alteration at will or just for practise anytime.

With this you need to worry very little about mechanics, you should gain willpower, intelligence and, by buying armourer training, endurance naturally. Just play the game; you look like a mage, well battle-mage anyway, you can act like a mage to your hearfts content. Strength? Weapon skills? Theyr'e for dumbass jocks!
[QUOTE=Darth Gavinius;1096098]Distrbution of games, is becoming a little like Democracy (all about money and control) - in the end choice is an illusion and you have to choose your lesser evil.

And everything is hidden in the fine print.[/QUOTE]

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Postby galraen » Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:54 am

PPS The one problem with the Mage build is that once you've completed the recommendation quests and figure out how to mix and match spell effects you own the game. The only remotely challenging recommendation quest is the Leyawiin one; just make sure you do them before going anywhere near Kvatch.
[QUOTE=Darth Gavinius;1096098]Distrbution of games, is becoming a little like Democracy (all about money and control) - in the end choice is an illusion and you have to choose your lesser evil.

And everything is hidden in the fine print.[/QUOTE]

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Postby Claudius » Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:11 am

@Gawain, OOO adjusts the level scaling issue. I forget what the leveling mod is called for calibrating stats with leveling. In the mod I remember it calculates your stats and level from the skills you have improved. You could probably get the name on a oblivion centric site. There's anothe one I never used that has you get 'xp' like many other games. So you beat a key dungeon or whatever and get xp that way.

Another one I liked was race rebalancing mod. Another one I liked was LAME (acronym) less annoying magic experience.
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Postby GawainBS » Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:24 am

Thanks, I'll check those out. I hope they have a decent description on the Nexus.

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Postby galraen » Fri Mar 22, 2013 8:56 am

less annoying magic experience


What is the 'annoying magic experience'? This is something that's puzzled me for ages?

If you want an alternative levelling system I actually prefer the much less buggy Francescos mod, no missing meshes and textures for one thing!
[QUOTE=Darth Gavinius;1096098]Distrbution of games, is becoming a little like Democracy (all about money and control) - in the end choice is an illusion and you have to choose your lesser evil.

And everything is hidden in the fine print.[/QUOTE]

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Postby RVPERTVS » Sat Mar 23, 2013 7:04 pm

galraen wrote:For example your char is getting close to levelling up, you check you record and see that you currently have increased weapons by 8 points, Endurance skills by 7 points and agility skills by 8 points. Wear nothing but heavy armour, wield blade or open hand. First run around picking locks (the Thieves Den DLC really helps here), if you are on a PC then you can use the console to lock a chest/door etc., select the chest/door type Lock X where X is a number between 1 and 99 depending on the difficulty level you desire. Of course you will need a lot of picks or be damn good at twitching, or alternatively player.additem a 100. Once you've increased Security twice, run around the shoreline beating up mudcrabs (block -bash - block, always block - bash - block even when not training) until your blade/H2H skill goes up by two and your Heavy Armour/Block goes up by three; you could even briefly increase the difficulty level a bit for this exercise. Once all three are at ten cast illusion, Mysticism or alteration spells until you level up, note your skill levels and get back to just playing.


Do you think it would be a smart move to forget entirely about speed and focus on agility instead? My current plan is to increase End, St and Sp for efficient leveling, but I'm noticing I could get more advantage from agility at this point, though I ignore if that could dampen my character at higher levels?

Im planning getting into Arvena Thela´s house in Anvil and practice a couple of combat skills with her rats, maybe getting some sneak increases while she sleeps.


EDIT: Just found the following on TESwiki. Should I worry about it?

"If you want your character to reach the highest level possible, for maximum skill points and health, then you may wish to take major skills which do not receive a bonus from your race or focus. This is because starting these skills higher means that they can get fewer advancements in total

To maximize your character's final level, you want to avoid any initial skill bonuses to your major skills: make sure that all specialization skills are minor skills, and make sure that racial bonuses all apply to minor skills. In other words, make your major skills all start with a value of 25 (you can actually allow one of the seven major skills to start at 30 without decreasing your maximum level). In that case, your character's maximum level will be 53. At the other extreme, if all skill bonuses are applied to your major skills, your character's maximum level will be 45"

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Postby galraen » Sat Mar 23, 2013 7:48 pm

maybe getting some sneak increases while she sleeps


The problem with that is Sneak is a major skill isn't it, and Light armour? Which is why I suggested using lock-pick in my previous post.

Just started another run through not having played the game in over a year. I don't know what is doing it but the levelling definitely isn't vanilla. Running into clanfear runts and Scamps at level 4, and instead of singles there groups of three or more,. So I'm finding it tougher than I used to; joke is on me as I think it may be a mod I edited to increase the difficulty level, I just can't remember exactly what I did, so I'm actually having to play properly! :eek: :D
[QUOTE=Darth Gavinius;1096098]Distrbution of games, is becoming a little like Democracy (all about money and control) - in the end choice is an illusion and you have to choose your lesser evil.

And everything is hidden in the fine print.[/QUOTE]

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Postby RVPERTVS » Sat Mar 23, 2013 7:58 pm

You´re right! That would be my first trial run with the game, Im thinking it´s time to start over with the real deal, I'm sticking with the concept, but maybe this time switching sneak for security as major? Agility is important to make this build work IMHO.

I edited my last post with some advice from TESwiki, do you think I should worry about it?

EDIT: Since all my majors are entirely under control, maybe it could work by just increasing sneak if I want to level up and raise Agility at the same time, just the necessary to take agility to 100? of course marksmanship and Security could help to get the attribute bonus.

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Postby galraen » Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:36 am

I overlooked the fact Marksmanship isn't a major, so yes, use a bow to round out the agility requirements.

A viable fighter build would be something like

Majors:

Heavy Armour
Armourer
Blade
Marksman
Athletics
Restoration
Light Armour (but don't wear any until you want to boost speed)

The Block-Bash-Block-Bash routine (mixing your weapons to control levelling) should take care of endurance; sneaking a lot should should make sure agility improves nicely, strength is slightly harder after a while, but you can always buy skill training.

Always take luck as a favoured ability, I'd go for strength or agility with a fighter build, depending on the race you choose, also the Thief birth sign is well worth considering.
[QUOTE=Darth Gavinius;1096098]Distrbution of games, is becoming a little like Democracy (all about money and control) - in the end choice is an illusion and you have to choose your lesser evil.

And everything is hidden in the fine print.[/QUOTE]

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Postby RVPERTVS » Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:20 am

Thank you for the advice.

Ok so I´ve gone trough the character creation tips again and I believe I have things finally figured out, though I still have a couple of question which I believe would be decisive:


I'm replacing Birthsign, I'm getting The Warrior instead of the Lady this time. Running the planner I see that I get improved health and fatigue if I start with higher strength. Is there any reason for keeping the Intelligence boost over the Strength? Do you recommend the Thief instead or St and End boosts are more important than agility and luck?

Im replacing marksmanship for sneak as major, Im not planning a ranger and I believe sneak is far easier to improve if I want to increase agility after finishing with speed.

I read something about increasing intelligence early on and willpower at later stages but couldn´t find a clear explanation behind this advice.

TESwiki advices against any skill bonuses at the start of the game in order to reach maximum level, but after running the planner I noticed that it´s not necessarily true since I don´t see any problem there. In case of any situation with this issue I´ve read that going into jail could solve it, is that so?