How do I defeat the Githyanki at Ember Village??

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DoubleDutch1971
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How do I defeat the Githyanki at Ember Village??

Postby DoubleDutch1971 » Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:44 pm

I have pulled out all that I have, Qara's spells, sheer violence from my main character and Khelgar, running away, loaded up with healing potions. Got through the first battle once or twice (before the cutscene) but the second part is the tricky one as there is no resting/saving in between. Does anyone know if the Githyanki have a particular weakness? E.g heat/cold

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Scottg
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Postby Scottg » Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:03 pm

This one shouldn't be difficult.

Mostly hold your characters back, and concentrate attacks on each opponent.

Summons and Animal Companions are also nice additions for drawing threat. Let them attack first, THEN have Khelgar do his thing.

Make sure that everyone is "buffed" with AC enhancement protection spells. Look at what protection spells you have. If you don't have enough then choose another character (..like Elanee vs. Quara). Also, Protection from Arrows is a decent spell to have.

Basically because Gith's have spell resistance, offensive spells don't often work that well - so generally stick to buff's and summons. HOWEVER, for offensive spells look to spells without a spell resistant component. Melf's Acid Arrow is one:

http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Melf%27s_Acid_Arrow

Flame Arrow is another.

Bishop should have Acid Arrows (..can be purchased at Old Owl Well merchant.)

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Claudius
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Postby Claudius » Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:46 pm

Make sure that everyone is "buffed" with AC enhancement protection spells. Look at what protection spells you have. If you don't have enough then choose another character (..like Elanee vs. Quara). Also, Protection from Arrows is a decent spell to have.

Basically because Gith's have spell resistance, offensive spells don't often work that well - so generally stick to buff's and summons. HOWEVER, for offensive spells look to spells without a spell resistant component. Melf's Acid Arrow is one:


Yes I agree. I buff to holy hell before every 'day'. Prot alignment, barkskin, stoneskin, cat's grace, bull's strength.


Another tip is to have bishop use his 'many arrow' feat on the casters. You can drag it to his toolbar from feats. Bishop also has spells such as cat's grace.

Another way to mess up long distance casters is the grease spell. I like grease because it is long range and casters don't have a high reflex stat. However Khelgar also has bad reflex save.
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Postby Scottg » Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:58 pm

Yeah, Grease is a FANTASTIC spell. In practice a few castings of it are better than any other disabling spell in the game.

No spell resist component,
Auto-slow for everyone UNLESS you have freedom of movement OR Haste (..which just slows you to normal speed)

+ Reflex Save for a chance of Knockdown (or no Knockdown if there is an immunity to it).

It's biggest weakness is duration, but with Extended spell and a caster of even only moderate levels it will last quite some time. It's second weakness is dispelling (or Gust of Wind), which can remove multiple castings of grease in one fell "swoop". It's final weakness is area - which is still good at "Huge", but not great like Colossal (..or fantastic like Vast).

Basically 3 castings will knockdown just about anyone (almost continuously) barring an immunity to knockdown, OR if an opponent has a high reflex save AND Epic Resilience (..which voids the problem of rolling a "1").

I particularly like setting-up casters with an item that confers immunity to knockdown - that way you can wade-in to your pool of grease and even if slowed, hostiles will head toward you and get knockdown while you can cast damage spells.

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Postby Claudius » Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:03 pm

With my yuan-ti party I discovered that spell resistance (on grease) also does not work! If not that would have been awesome..

Another help for hard encounters is to buy +1 arrows (which I do always anyways) or elemental damage arrows (which I generally save).
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Postby Scottg » Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:50 pm

Claudius wrote:With my yuan-ti party I discovered that spell resistance (on grease) also does not work! If not that would have been awesome..

Another help for hard encounters is to buy +1 arrows (which I do always anyways) or elemental damage arrows (which I generally save).


:p You got me to push another character through SOZ.. this time my Ninth Zulkir build with modifications to skills. Started her off at level 6 with with a few non-uber items - particularly "Steadfast" boots that give immunity to knockdown. Played it Solo of course (most difficult setting). The grease spell was very handy overall, and particularly at the end-battle. Triple-cast it at both ends of the divided "concourse" on the end-battle map and slowed the Herald to a crawl (..but never Knocked him down due to high reflex saves and Epic Resilience).

It played pretty much like this:

1.Buff.
2. 3 castings of Grease on the end of the concourse near opponents.
3. Move close enough toward opponents to become detected.
4. Battle commences - cast Wail of the Banshee on one side (right).
5. Move back into grease and let enemies follow (particularly Herald).
6. Cast Wail of the Banshee on opponents near me (which does nothing against the Herald due to Death Immunity - but expected).
7. Move over to other side (left) and cast Wail of Banshee yet again.
8. Run away from Herald into grease again and move down the concourse to the other end.
8. Cast grease a few times and run through it and away from Herald.

- at that point it pretty much allows me to circle the concourse to keep away from the Herald and cast almost anything I want to at him. I choose 2 Energy Drains and Banishment (..all from scrolls).

Oddly, despite the supposed immunities of the Herald (based on the most difficult level), the Missile Storms do work, and 3-4 of those empowered can kill him (assuming there are no other opponents in the area effect). (..it was something I wanted to test.)

I never did find out what the Herald's level was, and if either of my Energy Drains were necessary for Banishment. (..I was level 22 for the fight.)

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Postby Claudius » Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:50 pm

Scottg wrote: :p You got me to push another character through SOZ.. this time my Ninth Zulkir build with modifications to skills. Started her off at level 6 with with a few non-uber items - particularly "Steadfast" boots that give immunity to knockdown. Played it Solo of course (most difficult setting). The grease spell was very handy overall, and particularly at the end-battle. Triple-cast it at both ends of the divided "concourse" on the end-battle map and slowed the Herald to a crawl (..but never Knocked him down due to high reflex saves and Epic Resilience).

It played pretty much like this:

1.Buff.
2. 3 castings of Grease on the end of the concourse near opponents.
3. Move close enough toward opponents to become detected.
4. Battle commences - cast Wail of the Banshee on one side (right).
5. Move back into grease and let enemies follow (particularly Herald).
6. Cast Wail of the Banshee on opponents near me (which does nothing against the Herald due to Death Immunity - but expected).
7. Move over to other side (left) and cast Wail of Banshee yet again.
8. Run away from Herald into grease again and move down the concourse to the other end.
8. Cast grease a few times and run through it and away from Herald.

- at that point it pretty much allows me to circle the concourse to keep away from the Herald and cast almost anything I want to at him. I choose 2 Energy Drains and Banishment (..all from scrolls).

Oddly, despite the supposed immunities of the Herald (based on the most difficult level), the Missile Storms do work, and 3-4 of those empowered can kill him (assuming there are no other opponents in the area effect). (..it was something I wanted to test.)

I never did find out what the Herald's level was, and if either of my Energy Drains were necessary for Banishment. (..I was level 22 for the fight.)



Do you find lore books or quest info about the herald or is it all meta-gamed online to help beat him? I would hope that just a casual party on the core DnD settings could beat him?
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Postby Scottg » Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:39 pm

Claudius wrote:Do you find lore books or quest info about the herald or is it all meta-gamed online to help beat him? I would hope that just a casual party on the core DnD settings could beat him?



Some of it was learned originally 1st game through - damage reduction in particular (also one spell grouping immunity). (..and I played before there was any significant info. on it.).

I remember everyone originally bitching about the damage immunity, but me personally - I was bitching about the spell-specific immunity. That's what "grabbed my attention" to go looking online for info.

SPOILER ALERT: here are the immunities based on difficulty setting (though in the case of missile storms it's not correct):

http://thieves-guild.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1562&page=3

Almost any party *can* beat the Herald, but often players aren't familiar enough with the limitations of the D&D system to fully appreciate *how* to beat the Herald. Also, what "stopped some players short" was just how much more difficult this battle was (or could be) compared to others in the game. (..I mean your playing a "B" game at best most of the time and at the very end you need your "A" game - which somehow people didn't expect and didn't know how to achieve.)

The other major bitch that people had was the boss's race in context to the rest of the game. Frankly it was "consonant" with game's story (if "abrupt"). An evil deity is likely going to pick a champion that is extra planar in origin - and specifically one that is a Devil or Demon. In other words it's isn't something totally unexpected (nor something you couldn't prepare for).


For my long "bitch" though,

Outside of some quirky equipment, specific spell immunity is unbelievably rare. The developers however gave this "boss" specific spell immunity to some of the most effective spells in the game - and it breaks the game to do so (..no matter what the difficulty setting is).

Damage reduction - OK
Damage resistance - OK
High AC - OK
Higher Saves - OK (..though still relative to class and level)
Monster Attacks - OK
Particular Immunities - OK (mental, death, paralysis, phantasms, etc..)

All of the above you can find on monsters in the monster manual. If a Dungeon Master wants to make it harder, they usually increase LEVEL to improve on those features (..much the same way that a Druid's animal companion improves with Druid level), and/or class to add additional features that are part of that class.

If you want to add something "quirky" to the build (like a spell-specific immunity that you wouldn't find in any class structure), then you do that the same way a character would - with items. Items provide a little extra for your effort, and generally should have a *chance* for removal (i.e. weapons disarmed or sleight of hand from inventory). That chance for removal provides better variety to "win" for any possible class.

Some argue that its the final boss and should have god-like protection - and it does via the Disciples and their auto-healing of the boss. That's OK though, after all - you can have a companion heal you in the game, the method of the auto-healing isn't technically within D&D rules, but it is within the bounds of legitimate game-play. Frankly I would also expect that opponents have healing kits/items within their inventory to use, and actually make use of (..but that in fact wasn't implemented).

Really though, there are many methods in the game for god-like protection that is within game rules that makes other means of protection just plain hinky.

Death Ward/Shadow Shield, Freedom of Movement, Greater Spell Mantle? Ethereal Visage? Premonition? Energy Immunity? HELLO! Why didn't they implement those spells as features? I think it was a combination of laziness and stupidity. Doing so puts real limits on their use that you can actually understand because it's actually part of the game. As a God - Zehir should be able to add most or even all of these spells to the Herald say at level 40 (for their duration and "strength"). It would make MKD relevant, Spell Breaches relevant, spell-scroll use/Use Magic Item more relevant (for either of those spells if you didn't have them), or just plain lasting long enough until some of those spells "ran out of time". It would also make your party's spellcraft more relevant - providing the info. you would need to fully know what kind of additional defenses were being added to the Boss.

..eh, LOT's of missed opportunities. :(

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Postby Claudius » Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:52 am

[spoiler] So it looks like missile storms are a weakness?
Spoiler highlight text...


Damage Resistance: Acid [10/-]
Damage Resistance: Cold [10/-]
Immunity: Miscellaneous: Poison
True Seeing
Immunity: Miscellaneous: Knockdown
Immunity: Miscellaneous: Mind-Affecting Spells
Immunity: Miscellaneous: Paralysis
Immunity: Miscellaneous: Fear
Immunity: Miscellaneous: Disease
Immunity: Miscellaneous: Death Magic

At EASY level add the following:

Damage Resistance: Fire [10/-]
Damage Resistance: Electrical [10/-]

At NORMAL, replace the EASY settings with these:

Immunity: Damage Type: Electrical [100% Immunity Bonus]
Immunity: Damage Type: Fire [100% Immunity Bonus]
Spell Resistance [18]

On HARD, replace the spell resistance (18) and add the following:

Spell Resistance [28]
Immunity: Specific Spell [Bigby's Clenched Fist]
Immunity: Specific Spell [Bigby's Crushing Hand]
Immunity: Specific Spell [Bigby's Forceful Hand]
Immunity: Specific Spell [Bigby's Grasping Hand]

On Hardcore, ADD the following:

Immunity: Specific Spell [Isaac's Greater Missile Storm]
Immunity: Specific Spell [Isaac's Lesser Missile Storm]
Damage Resistance: 10

[/spoiler]
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Postby Scottg » Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:35 pm

Yeah, missile storms worked for me at the highest setting.. and I personally don't think of it as a spoiler - I mean they *should* work provided you can beat the opponent's spell resistance (..well, unless they have a spell mantle on soaking it up, or it's the lesser version and the opponent has globe of invulnerability).

Another thing that might have been cool would have been an inventory (non-wear) item providing immunity to all evocation spells with perhaps an off-setting attribute drain like Wisdom (say -6). THAT would have been interesting, sort of like Kangax's ring (..and something that could potentially be stolen to remove that protection).