Only Charisma important for conversational options?

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Tokse
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Postby Tokse » Thu Jan 25, 2007 6:36 pm

Crucis wrote:Yes, you could go with a DEX-style fighter, but I'm not sure that max DEX, leather wearing fighters do all that well as a frontline primary tank, but I could be wrong. I suppose you could go with a 20 DEX build, but at that point, you might have a character better suited to be an archer who only engages in melee when absolutely necessary.

I`m in doubt myself. What if he has the feat weapon finesse and uses two short swords. Wouldn`t he be quite deadly then, as well as having a good AC, even without a shield? If not the weapon finesse feat is disabled when using two weapons at once..hmm. I think I read that the off-hand had to be free.

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Crucis
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Postby Crucis » Thu Jan 25, 2007 7:21 pm

Tokse wrote:I`m in doubt myself. What if he has the feat weapon finesse and uses two short swords. Wouldn`t he be quite deadly then, as well as having a good AC, even without a shield?


Dual wielding isn't exactly all that big a deal in IWD2. Frankly, I think that the best benefit from dual wielding is probably the opportunity to pick up some potent and useful special abilities. The extra attack may be nice, but in terms of overall damage, you certainly get more damage output from a good 2H weapon.


There's no doubt that you can have an effective character wielding a pair of short swords with weapon finesse, high DEX, and good leather armor. I think that the real question is whether such a character would be AS effective as a low DEX, plate-wearing, 2H-weapon wielding tank, offensively and/or defensively. I've never played a "finesse tank" as a full time front line tank. The closest that I've come is playing a medium DEX (14), chain-wearing tank.

In fact, my favorite party's paladin was an elven, 14 DEX, chain mail wearing, longsword-wielding "medium" tank. And she was plenty effective. Come to think of it, this party had a max DEX, mid STR ranger who was primarily an archer, but who was a bit of a dual-wielding badass in melee. Still, for whatever reason, I never really felt that this ranger was suited to hang in the blood and gore of melee for very long, although he had pretty much as many HP and my normal tanks and a perfectly good, high AC.

So, I suppose that if you're looking for a change of pace in tankage, maybe a finesse tank would be an interesting diversion.





If not the weapon finesse feat is disabled when using two weapons at once..hmm. I think I read that the off-hand had to be free.


Not exactly that. If you carry a SHIELD, you have to apply the shield's Armor check penalty to your attack roll. The Weapon Finesse feat description says nothing about having a light weapon in your off-hand.

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Tokse
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Postby Tokse » Sat Jan 27, 2007 10:20 am

Crucis wrote: I've never played a "finesse tank" as a full time front line tank. The closest that I've come is playing a medium DEX (14), chain-wearing tank.


But even with that character I think a full plate(or light weight full plate a la Oswald Fiddlebender) would be a better option than chainmail, as it will earn you 2 more AC even with dex 14.(3 more AC with dex 12).

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Crucis
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Postby Crucis » Sat Jan 27, 2007 12:27 pm

Tokse wrote:But even with that character I think a full plate(or light weight full plate a la Oswald Fiddlebender) would be a better option than chainmail, as it will earn you 2 more AC even with dex 14.(3 more AC with dex 12).


Well, unchanted Chain Mail is +5 AC, +2 Max DEX Bonus (MDB) for a total of +7. And unenchanted full plate is +8 AC, +1 MDB for a total of +9. Yes, that is a difference of 2.

Now, my 14 DEX elven pally also took the Dodge feat cuz of her 14 DEX, although I suppose that it would still work in Plate, even though she couldn't use her full DEX. (I suppose that one could argue that one shouldn't be able to use a Dodge feat if you're wearing heavy armor, regardless of your DEX, but that's neither here nor there.)

I never did put her in plate as I recall, but it's been a LONG while since I played that party. I really, really did enjoy playing that party and that character in particular. Her name was Nya Arenthel and she was the daughter of some pretigious elven mages, but for whatever reason was not blessed with the intelligence ( INT 8 ) to be a wizard, but was blessed with wonderful atheletic gifts (good STR, DEX, and CON) and ended up being chosen by Mystra herself to be one of her paladins rather than a practitioner of the the arcane arts. Ahhhh, those were the days. ;)

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Jelaweb
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Postby Jelaweb » Sat Jan 27, 2007 10:58 pm

I have use Weapon Finesse/Dual Wielding decoys.

When I have done this, they have usually had a Monk level thrown in. Without the Monk level, I usually carry a shield instead. Dual-wielding works for this kind of decoy - they won't cause much damage, but the high DEX and Weapon Finesse will cause them to hit.
Their purpose is not about causing damage, so the whole dual-wielding vs 2-handed weapon argument is redundant.

And also note that hitting an enemy stops them from hitting you (I've seen many Orc archers unable to fire arrows because I hit them)!