Thief or Fighter which is stronger?

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darkraven
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Thief or Fighter which is stronger?

Postby darkraven » Fri Sep 02, 2005 6:22 pm

I think that this will be fun topic so which in your opinion which class do you think is the stronger the fighter or the thief.So that everything remains pretty clear let just look at each class as a single class so no dual or multiclass talk here because that would change everything.

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Coot
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Postby Coot » Sat Sep 03, 2005 3:00 am

A fighter is better at fighting, therefore you might call a fighter stronger. A thief excels at anything that has to do with thieving abilities. But all of this is obvious, so I'm not sure I understand your question.
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Postby Lonelypilgrim » Sat Sep 03, 2005 3:49 am

I know that a swashbuckler will top a fighter at armor class later in ToB.But fighters will surely hit stronger.
A fighter can be a grand master(*****)in all weapons,but the assasin can only put 1 * in those slots.Maybe 2...

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darkraven
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Postby darkraven » Sat Sep 03, 2005 10:22 am

What I am asking is which class do you think is more powerfully.Which class has the best high level abilities and things of that nature.Both class has there own field where they excel at but I am asking which class do you think is the stronger class overall in the game and I know depends how you play but I think that is a fun debate so I thought that I would get different peoples thoughts on this.

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Postby Sononara » Sat Sep 03, 2005 7:15 pm

Personally, I think fighters. Masses of HP, absolute experts with weapons, can wear any sexy armour they come across, and they get sick abilities.
Thats my two pence.
Thiefs arent half bad though, sneak attack can finish of mellissan stage 1.
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Postby Faust » Sat Sep 03, 2005 9:05 pm

For most of the games Fighters are the more "powerful" class. While the class brings a lot of of versatility and needed abilities, a fighter's superior defense and offensive abilities (though, quite frankly, back stab can be quite potent if applied properly), really gives them much more of an edge in terms of raw power. The question becomes more complicated, however, when we're considering the highest levels of ToB. For the most part, the theives receives some of the very best HLA (like use any item). At this point, if molded properly, they really can best a fighter in many ways.

All in all, it's not a question I like much. Power is such a relative term in a game like BG2. For a balanced party, you're going to need both classes and they will each bring somethign unique to the party.

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Postby Deadalready » Sun Sep 04, 2005 7:41 am

I would a take a full thief over a fighter anyday, combat wise a fighter is much stronger but a well managed thief can easily decimate an unwitting group.
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Postby darkraven » Sun Sep 04, 2005 8:14 pm

Well I like theives but in alot of aspects they are like mages and priests.After they use all there traps and other abilities that are limited each day then they are less effective.I suppose that you could just rest bewteen every few battle but I found that to be annoying so I must have my fighters there take the all the damage while the rest my party is working there spell and using there other abilities.The thing that I hate about traps is that you can't set them in the middle of a fight.

As for the thief being able to take the down the strongest fighter then that is something I more then agree with but that is true about most classes.Any class can defeat the other class if they use right tricks.

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Postby roug3l3ad3r » Sun Sep 04, 2005 8:22 pm

However all the fighters in ToB have better dialouge.
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Postby krunchyfrogg » Sun Sep 04, 2005 9:47 pm

I'd go with Fighter.
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Postby Apeiron » Tue Sep 06, 2005 9:59 am

I think the thief versatility beats the "square" power of the fighter. Backstab or traps, for instance, are very usefull abilities.
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Postby Apeiron » Tue Sep 06, 2005 10:02 am

[QUOTE=darkraven]Well I like theives but in alot of aspects they are like mages and priests.After they use all there traps and other abilities that are limited each day then they are less effective.I suppose that you could just rest bewteen every few battle but I found that to be annoying so I must have my fighters there take the all the damage while the rest my party is working there spell and using there other abilities.[/QUOTE]

That´s right, but you don´t have to use them every time. Three traps should last for a lot of days, if used when they are really needed...
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darkraven
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Postby darkraven » Tue Sep 06, 2005 9:50 pm

The problem with traps is that you only get so many which need to be set ahead of time and fact of the matter is that in most of the game you really don't have the chance to set the traps.Backstab isn't that great in TOB because after you backstab then you are pretty much toast when a horde of people surround your thief.You can drink a potion and then backstab again but even that take a few seconds and you can easily be killed a few second.Also backstab didn't work alot of the time because some enemies can even see you when you are in the shadow.Also another problem with this is the true sight spell because I needed to cast it alot to get by mages defenses and that made impossible to backstab after casting it.

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Postby Phantom Lord » Wed Sep 07, 2005 12:25 pm

Without a second thought - Thief.

Aside from those thieving abilities that deal with traps, locks and other persons pockets, which render him priceless in any party, there are two abilities that make him very, very powerful: Backstab and UAI.

The value of backstab is pretty obvious. A critical quintuple backstab with the Staff of Ram will most likely take down anything that's backstabable (funny word, isn't it), including the strongest fighter you can think of.

UAI means unlimited scroll use. In combination with Helm of Vailor it means that a thief can blow pretty much anything off the face of Toril without regret (and also raise dead, of course). Even if he doesn't resort to Helm of Vailor to save the scrolls, he can still use scrolls. He also wields the Staffs of Ram and Magi, wears the Amulet of Power, the Melodic or Bladesinger chain and whatever else he desires.

Fighters are fine, but they lack the special and spellcasting abilities that a thief has at hand.

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Postby Thrifalas » Wed Sep 07, 2005 5:31 pm

I'll also go with the thief. Sure, the fighter is a fine klick'n'kill character, but a thief is able to deal so much more damage when used correctly. Since we're talking HLA's anyway.

A well-made backstabb can slay pretty much any foe outright, and I know that I'm not alone on this forum to see traps as a "last-resort-solution". They are purely overpowered.

And why not combine them? Time Traps+Potions/Ring/Whatever of Invis+Backstabbing ... ... ...

Combine that with every already mentioned advantage of UAI, and you've my reason why the thief is "stronger" than the fighter.

But you cannot compare them like that. Fighters are essentially to keep your foes at a distance. Thieves cannot take nearly as much damage unless they're abusing scrolls. ^^

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Postby darkraven » Wed Sep 07, 2005 9:52 pm

I agree that a thief is powerfully and deadly but they are mastered at the sneak skill and sometimes that doesn't work to well in the game.In alot of the fights the thief can't backstab because they can see him and in some fights you do the option of setting traps.While use any item is great I really don't think it is that great because the thief is not a master at the skills he using like casting spell from scroll.I would rather have that spell in my spell book being used by a magic users that can take more advantage since they can cast the spell more then once.I thief loses his backstab ability when he uses a weapon or armor that isn't what they can normally use but when they are using some of the other item mentioned then I agree that they are quite deadly.

The fighter also has some great hla abilities that can take more then easily take down any thief.

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Postby Thrifalas » Thu Sep 08, 2005 5:19 am

If you really want to, you usually can run out of the enemies sight (especially with BoS), hide and then return into the fight. And yes, there are a few fights were you're unable to lay traps in advance.

And scrolls are not to be underestimated, if of cource not as usable as they are in the hands of a mage. If they were, the thief would be the strongest character ever, hands-down. :P

A well-equipped fighter will never ever be able to take down a well-equipped thief. He wouldn't ever had the chance of seeing him, and the traps would slay him outright. The only exception would probably be the Inquisitor. ;o

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Postby darkraven » Thu Sep 08, 2005 10:32 am

Any class can defeat another class with the right gear and there is no point in fighting that because with the right items that can change anything. While the thief does have those annoying traps but it very possible for the fighter to just to hold his place and wait for the thief to attack the fighter because this way the traps won't be a problem and there are items out there can protect againist backstab and you must remember that the thief can't place a trap when an enemy can see him.Not that there are enemies in the game fight like this because this but what would be interesting if I could I put my fighter up againist your thief and see who wins in the end.

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Postby Lady Morgana » Fri Sep 09, 2005 1:17 am

I say the thief is more powerful than a fighter because traps can kill even dragons in single hits. a thief at high levels can use any item and a thief is more versitle. even a high level paladin or monk would be little match for a well prepared thief.

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Postby Thrifalas » Fri Sep 09, 2005 5:29 am

[QUOTE=darkraven]Any class can defeat another class with the right gear and there is no point in fighting that because with the right items that can change anything. While the thief does have those annoying traps but it very possible for the fighter to just to hold his place and wait for the thief to attack the fighter because this way the traps won't be a problem and there are items out there can protect againist backstab and you must remember that the thief can't place a trap when an enemy can see him.Not that there are enemies in the game fight like this because this but what would be interesting if I could I put my fighter up againist your thief and see who wins in the end.[/QUOTE]

If the fighter were to stand on the same spot the whole game he would get backstabbed to pieces and not be able to land a single hit. But then there are items that protects against backstabs...