Awful 2´nd edition rule!!!

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Classic
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Awful 2´nd edition rule!!!

Postby Classic » Sun Sep 16, 2001 2:51 am

I haven´t played pnp for 8-9 years but now that the 3´rd edition is out I was wondering if anyone could tell me if the #¤&% stupid rule which lets high str increase chance to hit is still alive and kicking. Why would str have any impact on your aim?! :mad: Dex, on the other hand comes to mind, and even int or wis but certainly not str!!!

Please, tell me they´ve changed it!!!

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Postby Xyx » Sun Sep 16, 2001 4:07 pm

Because attacks from strong people...
  • are more difficult to parry or block
  • penetrate armor more easily

The "roll to hit" thing is actually more of a "roll to inflict real damage"...

D&D3 has a Feat that allows characters to use their Dex bonus instead of their Str bonus for hit rolls (when using light weapons).
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Postby Classic » Sun Sep 16, 2001 11:22 pm

Have you ever tried to block an attack from a big fellow? Strength and size aren´t that important if you´re just trying to deflect a blow. If someone uses all of his strength in a blow he´s usually less accurate than if he controls his swing.

As for the penetration of armor, well that´s what the increased damage represents. Think of a medium sized guy and a big guy stabbing you in the stomach with a knife. Do you think one is going to hurt you alot more than the other?

Although there is some logic to your argument I still think the bonus is misplaced, especially when you consider the importance of the strength rating compared to the other ratings.

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Postby Worldfrog » Mon Sep 17, 2001 6:05 am

Y'know, it might make sense if you thought about it in a more general sense. Charisma is clearly stated not to be so much a measure of physical beauty as it is a measure of the character's ability to attract people. Despite that, many people still equate charisma with physical attractiveness. In one of the earlier gamebooks, it specifically mentions Hitler as an example of an 18 charisma!

In the same sense, strength probably should not be interpreted as sheer brute force so much as force combined with the ability to properly use that force. While that blurs the lines between strength and dexterity, one can't really expect to distill any character down to a collection of six statistics...

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Postby Xyx » Mon Sep 17, 2001 12:10 pm

Strength also determines some athletic capabilities, such as simming and jumping.

I'd agree that Dex should be the real fighting stat, though.
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Postby RPGeek » Wed Sep 19, 2001 12:31 pm

I'm not sure, as I don't have it, but I think AD&D Player's Option: Skills & Powers made some changes here.
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Postby Johnny » Wed Sep 19, 2001 11:12 pm

But someone who is strong can better control a heavy melee weapon. Dexterity is for light, graceful precision that missile weapons need.
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Postby RPGeek » Fri Sep 21, 2001 5:07 am

Actually, the dodging ability comes from the defenders DEX., not from the attackers STR.
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Postby Cynik » Fri Sep 21, 2001 8:26 am

I think you answered yourself:

"If someone uses all of his strength in a blow he´s usually less accurate than if he controls his swing."

Ie a str18 character only needs to use half his str to do the same thing as a str9 character (assuming str to be linear wich it's not but...) and can thus be more accurate.

Now, why you get both enhanced damage and accuracy beats me.

Still I think that if you add accuracy to Dex that would unbalance Dex and (IMO) add nothing to the gaming experience.

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Postby Classic » Fri Sep 21, 2001 10:04 am

Well, I was just pointing out that str is already unballancing the game as it is, determing both damage and accuracy as well as the permitted gear carried. By the existing rules, strong fellows are always more accurate than their even leveled weaker counterparts. Wielding a simple not-too-heavy weapon like a dagger or longsword this is just lame. Controling your blows by not using all of your strength is very difficult and shouldn´t add to the chance to hit, quite the opposite, actually.
But hey... it seems that there are differing oppinions on this subject so maybe it´s not such a terrible rule after all. My gaming group has just always thought so, and we feel that it added to the balance of the game when we shifted the modifier to dex. Each to his own! Do whatever feels good for you! :cool:

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Postby Xyx » Fri Sep 21, 2001 1:09 pm

I always felt the Dex AC modifier was worth much more than some dumb clobbering bonus... :D

For the record: D&D3 manual says the following:
Strenght: Allows you to swing faster and harder.
Dex: Allows more precision and coordination.

I agree with both, but not the way that is translated into the rules...
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