BGT or Tutu? (SPOILERS!)

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NocturneN
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Postby NocturneN » Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:46 pm

Firstly, apologies for late replies. I seem to have miraculously cured the connection issue (atleast temporaily)...by running an AVG scan and removing some tracking cookies...which baffles me to no end. Perhaps there was some malware somewhere messing up my IE, or just my ISP having problems these past weeks (though what's confusing is why only ONE site would be affected, by any of this) and they fixed it coincidentally after my scan...

...aaanyway, back on topic. Just a heads up that if I mysteriously "disappear" again, you now know why.

galraen wrote:Not sure what sort of advantage there is in bringing back dated menus and UI, any graphic mods which affect BG2 will affect the BG1 element of the game in BGT. Not that there are any graphic mods that do improve the look of the game. One of the advantages of BGT is that it does combine the disperate elements of the game into one game.


This is pretty much what I feel too, I never really liked the BG1 menus, Garriath. It's a nice thing to incorporate, though, and I'm sure many people feel just as you do. Though in my specific case, it's not really an advantage. :)

galraen wrote:PS Strange that only two of us, apart from Thomas has joined in this debate, it doesn't really help Thpmas to have only two inputs. Surely someone else has a view, even if they all disagree with me, I'd still be interested in knowing why. I'm not exactly unused to being proven wrong, so if you disagree say so!


Alas, this game is ooold. Can't really wonder at the lack of activity on forums that cover such an old game, though Gamebanshee has been strangely quiet lately I have to admit. My guess is they're all busy playing BG:EE. :D

galraen wrote:Spoiler:

After your confrontation with your bro the game doesn't end, you are told to return to the Ducal Palace, when you get there you're asked to deliver a message to the authorities in Amn. On the way you get ambushed by a bunch of hired thieves, lead by a certain guild leader you may later meet in Athkatla.[


That seems...very nice, to be honest. Lovely little transition work done, right there. I've been weighting back and forth and looking at different sites (only this site has given me trouble, strangely enough), and I must say BGT is looking nicer. The fact that it seems to effectively meld the games into one seems a definite bonus.

Just a question (apologies if you already covered this Galraen):
If I play with Edwin and Viconia in BG1, will their stats transfer over (level, xp, stats etc) to BG2? So if I gave Viccy 3xTomes of Insight, would she start BG2 with 21 WIS? :D

Tricky wrote:So, what is the final verdict?


It's looking like I'll try BGT. Depends on if the stats carry over, that'd be quite nice. Eh, I feel both BGT and Tutu would probably work just fine. I might aswell try BGT given the conversion seems better. I'm nowhere near done with my character, however, so it'll probably be awhile still before I start playing proper. Thanks everyone for you replies! :)
Selinde Truesword- I am clearly deranged. Look who I travel with! Minsc, meet the Pirate Lord!

Minsc- Pirate Lord? Such a name does not conjure images of righteous behavior. Stand still a moment and let Boo have a look at you.

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Postby galraen » Thu Dec 20, 2012 7:10 am

If I play with Edwin and Viconia in BG1, will their stats transfer over (level, xp, stats etc) to BG2? So if I gave Viccy 3xTomes of Insight, would she start BG2 with 21 WIS?


I don't think so, but haven't used those two on BGT, so can't be definite. No problem if you use Shadowkeeper though.
[QUOTE=Darth Gavinius;1096098]Distrbution of games, is becoming a little like Democracy (all about money and control) - in the end choice is an illusion and you have to choose your lesser evil.

And everything is hidden in the fine print.[/QUOTE]

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Postby NocturneN » Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:37 pm

galraen wrote:I don't think so, but haven't used those two on BGT, so can't be definite. No problem if you use Shadowkeeper though.


I'm trying to limit overall Shadowkeeper use, whenever I can. But thanks. :)
Selinde Truesword- I am clearly deranged. Look who I travel with! Minsc, meet the Pirate Lord!

Minsc- Pirate Lord? Such a name does not conjure images of righteous behavior. Stand still a moment and let Boo have a look at you.

Desharik- Er, why is your friend pointing a hamster at me?

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Postby galraen » Sun Dec 23, 2012 7:20 am

Never had any problems with the 'Beregost Bug' in BGT, I did bite me in the ass on Tutu though, I think the latest BGT found a way to overcome the problem.

As BGT uses the SoA engine you should be able to use any BG2 mod, but not Tutu mods due to the crazy labelling system they used for Tutu.

I'm not sure if the silly XP cap is removed in BGT, in the last run through my 6 person party wound up with the main having 250K+ xp without exploiting things like the ever spawning golems, Anhkegs or Dread Wolves. However I do use the G3 tweak pack.

Not much level scaling in the game, just what you'd expect from the vanilla game, Durlag's Tower can be quite challenging first time, or even second time through, even without the XP cap though, especially the final encounter. It's actually more difficult if you rely on spamming summoned monsters & undead as BGT uses the 5 max summoned creature rule.
[QUOTE=Darth Gavinius;1096098]Distrbution of games, is becoming a little like Democracy (all about money and control) - in the end choice is an illusion and you have to choose your lesser evil.

And everything is hidden in the fine print.[/QUOTE]

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Postby NocturneN » Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:39 am

galraen wrote:Never had any problems with the 'Beregost Bug' in BGT, I did bite me in the ass on Tutu though, I think the latest BGT found a way to overcome the problem.

As BGT uses the SoA engine you should be able to use any BG2 mod, but not Tutu mods due to the crazy labelling system they used for Tutu.

I'm not sure if the silly XP cap is removed in BGT, in the last run through my 6 person party wound up with the main having 250K+ xp without exploiting things like the ever spawning golems, Anhkegs or Dread Wolves. However I do use the G3 tweak pack.

Not much level scaling in the game, just what you'd expect from the vanilla game, Durlag's Tower can be quite challenging first time, or even second time through, even without the XP cap though, especially the final encounter. It's actually more difficult if you rely on spamming summoned monsters & undead as BGT uses the 5 max summoned creature rule.


Ah yes, been doing some reading (ALOT of reading, actually! :D ), and it seems that bug's been corrected in the latest BG2Tweaks mod. Now I'm utterly confused, however: Should I install the BG2Tweaks-mod or the BGT-Tweaks mod? :D

Ah, I guess I can find the info in the readmes...unfortunately what with the G3 site being down and all, I'm having more trouble finding the correct information than I'd normally have, causing me to ask some stupid/obvious questions. Bare with me. :) I shall edit the previous post. EDIT Opted to simply delete is as most questions have been answered now /EDIT

They've removed the cap, then - good. The xp cap for TotSC is otherwise 161,000. Since there's so little xp in ToB (wierd design decision there, as SoA was overflowing with xp), I was hoping to milk every last bit out of TotSC...though I'm not a fan of "grinding" either, so I'll probably end up around the same as you.

What's your opinion on SCS? Been thinking about spicing up the combat abit, though it's the same problem here - not sure if I should install SCSI or SCSII - or both, sigh.

By the way, is it just me or is the GameBanshee site uncannily quiet as of late? It almost feels like we're the only ones posting, atleast in these sections. I was thinking it may be because of the holiday season, but I'd figured atleast a few more people would be posting... It's generally abit quiet here due to the game being old and such, but still...we normally had around 10-20 active posters atleast, aye? :D
Selinde Truesword- I am clearly deranged. Look who I travel with! Minsc, meet the Pirate Lord!

Minsc- Pirate Lord? Such a name does not conjure images of righteous behavior. Stand still a moment and let Boo have a look at you.

Desharik- Er, why is your friend pointing a hamster at me?

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Postby galraen » Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:17 am

GB has been getting quieter and quieter for a year or so now, in small part due to some people not liking the changes that were made to the site but mainly due I think due to the increasing popularity of social sites like Facebook and Twitter. The virtual death of genuine CRPGs hasn't helped.
[QUOTE=Darth Gavinius;1096098]Distrbution of games, is becoming a little like Democracy (all about money and control) - in the end choice is an illusion and you have to choose your lesser evil.

And everything is hidden in the fine print.[/QUOTE]

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Postby NocturneN » Sun Dec 23, 2012 2:20 pm

galraen wrote:GB has been getting quieter and quieter for a year or so now, in small part due to some people not liking the changes that were made to the site but mainly due I think due to the increasing popularity of social sites like Facebook and Twitter. The virtual death of genuine CRPGs hasn't helped.


That's awhile before I joined (I joined in late August, so been here roughly 4-5 months), so I can't comment on the site's changes. But when I joined, and the months after, there was still atleast some ~10-20 (hard to say) active posters around... but suddenly it's like everyone just up and vanished. :3 Facebook, hmm...should probly do a search for BG groups, there, though I vastly prefer this site (and similar) which lets you post and comment without disturbances...

Well, sadly it seems that games like BG are a thing of the past. Been a very long time since I played an RPG that actually made me think before rushing into combat, or when I truly had no idea of what was coming... RPGs nowadays are just... Well, I blasted through Mass Effect 2 on Insane recently, and while there were challenging fights and the story was quite good, the strategical depth and the plot twists were nowehere near those of BG. I remember thinking to myself "what a great game this is!" when I played ME, now, I almost regret having wasted time playing it when I could've been playing BG instead. :D

We still have Dragon Age and the Elder Scrolls series, though. I haven't tried DA or Skyrim, yet, but apart from those two, there isn't much. Still, it feels good knowing that Bioware is still around making high-quality RPGs...or trying to keep the genre alive, atleast.

Feels like most RPG-developers are focusing on the MMO-market, though, which is quite a shame. After 7 years of WoW I saw firsthand the decline of a great, challenging, game into a boring no-danger, no-reward, no-immersion-mess. :( Not to mention the RP limitation which was always there (that has declined too, though, as all the immersion-granting experiences have been either removed or dumbed down).

As always, I write too long - and OT too... Apologies. ><
Selinde Truesword- I am clearly deranged. Look who I travel with! Minsc, meet the Pirate Lord!

Minsc- Pirate Lord? Such a name does not conjure images of righteous behavior. Stand still a moment and let Boo have a look at you.

Desharik- Er, why is your friend pointing a hamster at me?

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Postby NocturneN » Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:05 am

I have now installed a bunch of mods. Being confused at the lack of install directions, I have installed all mods that come packed in a .zip format to the Baldur's Gate II directory. Now I read on the SCS launch screen that I should install it in the BGT-folder...

Many mods come with 2 files; a folder and an install script. I've run these install scripts just fine from the BG2-folder (C:\BGII - SoA) and subsequently placed the folder also in the BG2-folder, even for BGT mods. So my question is: Should I move these folders into the BGT-folder, or will it work anyway? Do I need to completely reinstall everything? Or should I just leave it as is?
Selinde Truesword- I am clearly deranged. Look who I travel with! Minsc, meet the Pirate Lord!

Minsc- Pirate Lord? Such a name does not conjure images of righteous behavior. Stand still a moment and let Boo have a look at you.

Desharik- Er, why is your friend pointing a hamster at me?

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Postby friendlyarm » Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:57 pm

Happy new year everyone

Am I really the only one disliking BG2 graphics in BG1? I feel that with improved graphipcs bg1 seems rather empty, also I find that the darker colors create better atmosphere for the first game. The transition from 1 to 2 in bgt sounds magnificent though, which might make me give it a try.

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Postby NocturneN » Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:19 pm

friendlyarm wrote:Happy new year everyone

Am I really the only one disliking BG2 graphics in BG1? I feel that with improved graphipcs bg1 seems rather empty, also I find that the darker colors create better atmosphere for the first game. The transition from 1 to 2 in bgt sounds magnificent though, which might make me give it a try.


Happy new year.

I finally got it up and running tonight (loads of mods installed, gave me a headache trying to figure out the load order...), and I must say Candlekeep looks really good with BG2 graphics. The place feels greatly detailed...it looks just as good as anything in BG2, honestly, though we shall see if it holds up once I'm on the road.

Have a small problem though that I'm hoping someone might know the answer to:
The XP recieved is not the same as what's displayed in the combat log. I've only been strolling around abit, picked some locks, and delievered the scroll to that Mage in the Inn. If the log says I get 10 xp, I actually get 11. If it says 50, I get 55. Not really signifcant enough to matter, though if I kill a creature worth 2000 xp, I suspect I'd get 2200, and THAT is too much. Anyone know what causes this, and how to resolve it?

EDIT
Found the solution [url='http://social.bioware.com/forum/Baldur039s-Gate-1-and-2/Baldur039s-Gate-1-and-Tales-of-the-Sword-Coast-Official-Campaigns-Spoilers-Warning/Which-BGT-mod-gives-10-experience-from-quests-and-creatures-8294901-1.html']here[/url]. Hopefully, I wont have to reinstall everything, AGAIN. :P This mod buisness is a pain, but once you finally get everything to work as intended, it's generally worth all the hassle. Found that out in Oblivion. :)
Selinde Truesword- I am clearly deranged. Look who I travel with! Minsc, meet the Pirate Lord!

Minsc- Pirate Lord? Such a name does not conjure images of righteous behavior. Stand still a moment and let Boo have a look at you.

Desharik- Er, why is your friend pointing a hamster at me?

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Postby galraen » Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:05 am

It's not a bug, AD&D gives a 10% experience bonus if your prime attribute is 16 or above. So if you're a thief and your dexterity is >15 you should get 11 xp rather than 10, 55 instead of 50 and 2,200 rather than 2,000. If your multi class then all prime attributes should be 16 or greater to receive the 10% boost, not sure how well Bioware implemented that though as I've always had 16 or greater.
[QUOTE=Darth Gavinius;1096098]Distrbution of games, is becoming a little like Democracy (all about money and control) - in the end choice is an illusion and you have to choose your lesser evil.

And everything is hidden in the fine print.[/QUOTE]

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Postby NocturneN » Thu Jan 03, 2013 7:37 am

Bah, small problems seem to be cropping up all the time... I just recruited Khalid and Jaheira, and Jaheria starts with +3 in Staves, for some reason. As a multi-class, she should only be allowed 2. I'm not sure if that is in adherence with the AD&D rules or not -I like it regardless. I am loath to use Shadowkeeper to correct this for fear of savegame corruption, is there another way (CLUA)? Can't find anything from searching...

galraen wrote:It's not a bug, AD&D gives a 10% experience bonus if your prime attribute is 16 or above. So if you're a thief and your dexterity is >15 you should get 11 xp rather than 10, 55 instead of 50 and 2,200 rather than 2,000. If your multi class then all prime attributes should be 16 or greater to receive the 10% boost, not sure how well Bioware implemented that though as I've always had 16 or greater.


Interesting, thanks. From the link I posted, it seems they implemented it succesfully in BG2SoA/ToB, but not in BG1. I had honestly never noticed this in BG2; probably because of the rather high numbers of xp. Starting in BG1 it became more obvious...thought it was a bug. Again, interesting.
Selinde Truesword- I am clearly deranged. Look who I travel with! Minsc, meet the Pirate Lord!

Minsc- Pirate Lord? Such a name does not conjure images of righteous behavior. Stand still a moment and let Boo have a look at you.

Desharik- Er, why is your friend pointing a hamster at me?

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Postby galraen » Thu Jan 03, 2013 7:41 am

Jaheira is a multi-classed fighter/Druid therefore is entitled to 5 stars in staves, or any other weapon she can use.
[QUOTE=Darth Gavinius;1096098]Distrbution of games, is becoming a little like Democracy (all about money and control) - in the end choice is an illusion and you have to choose your lesser evil.

And everything is hidden in the fine print.[/QUOTE]

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Postby NocturneN » Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:05 am

galraen wrote:Jaheira is a multi-classed fighter/Druid therefore is entitled to 5 stars in staves, or any other weapon she can use.


I see. I'd prefer if she is only entitled to 2, as that is one of the few disadvantages a multi-class in BG has. Likewise, she has too many proficiencies. If I start a half-elven fighter/druid I'm only allowed 4 starting proficiencies, whereas Jaheira has 6...
Selinde Truesword- I am clearly deranged. Look who I travel with! Minsc, meet the Pirate Lord!

Minsc- Pirate Lord? Such a name does not conjure images of righteous behavior. Stand still a moment and let Boo have a look at you.

Desharik- Er, why is your friend pointing a hamster at me?

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Postby galraen » Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:03 am

The trouble with the way 2ed developed, or at least the way Bioware/Black Isle interpreted it, is that they got rid of the level limits for demi-humans, and that completely broke the balance. Under 1ed rules, and as I recall original 2ed rules for example, an Elven fighter could only reach 7th level, and then only if they had max Elven strength, which was 18/75. Elven Mages could only reach 11th level, and that required 18 intelligence. Demi-human thieves were unlimited, so an Elven or Half-Elven F/M/T could only reach 7/11/unlimited levels. Such things as magic items and tomes could enable them to exceed the limits, providing they could somehow achieve extraordinary related abilities.

Under the original 'rules' an Elf who had 18/75 strength who read a tome of strength would have her/his strength increased to 18/85, not 19, is another iniquity.
[QUOTE=Darth Gavinius;1096098]Distrbution of games, is becoming a little like Democracy (all about money and control) - in the end choice is an illusion and you have to choose your lesser evil.

And everything is hidden in the fine print.[/QUOTE]

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Postby NocturneN » Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:52 am

Yes...I see...but, do you know if there's a way to change a chars proficiencies with the console or somesuch? Also, are multi-classed characters supposed to recieve starting proficiens from BOTH their classes, or only from the most beneficial class? Like Jaheira, Fighter/Druid. She has 6 proficiencies, indicating she recieved from both her classes, and same with Montaron. But if I try to create a multi-class Fighter/Druid, I only recieve 4 slots, like a standard fighter.

By the way, I'm quite pleased with the BG2 graphics. Hunting bear in the forest with only PC and Imoen was awesome. Will see if I can't upload some screenshots later!
Selinde Truesword- I am clearly deranged. Look who I travel with! Minsc, meet the Pirate Lord!

Minsc- Pirate Lord? Such a name does not conjure images of righteous behavior. Stand still a moment and let Boo have a look at you.

Desharik- Er, why is your friend pointing a hamster at me?

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Postby galraen » Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:04 am

I always use shadowkeeper for things like that.

If you want to 'legalise' Jaheira SK can also handle that. Personally I've never come across the surplus proficiencies you mention, I suspect it's one of the mods you installed, or my memory is worse than I thought.
[QUOTE=Darth Gavinius;1096098]Distrbution of games, is becoming a little like Democracy (all about money and control) - in the end choice is an illusion and you have to choose your lesser evil.

And everything is hidden in the fine print.[/QUOTE]

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Postby NocturneN » Thu Jan 03, 2013 11:18 am

galraen wrote:I always use shadowkeeper for things like that.

If you want to 'legalise' Jaheira SK can also handle that. Personally I've never come across the surplus proficiencies you mention, I suspect it's one of the mods you installed, or my memory is worse than I thought.


Suppose there's no other way around.

Mmm, yes...thing is I'd never install something like that, intentionally, anyway. Guess I'll go scrutinize my WeiDU-log. Thanks Galraen.
Selinde Truesword- I am clearly deranged. Look who I travel with! Minsc, meet the Pirate Lord!

Minsc- Pirate Lord? Such a name does not conjure images of righteous behavior. Stand still a moment and let Boo have a look at you.

Desharik- Er, why is your friend pointing a hamster at me?

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Postby NocturneN » Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:33 am

Well, been travelling around the Friendly Arm and Beregost awhile now, searching for companions and tangling with some beasties. I was hoping for some random encounters though, i.e. "You have been waylaid by enemies", but haven't had a single random battle, yet, which is kinda wierd. First time I played Baldur's Gate I remember my mainchar and Imoen got ambushed by some 8-10 bandits on the way to the crossroads between Beregost on the Friendly Arm, i.e. the very first zone-to-zone travel. :D Naturally we got slaughtered, but it really added to the feeling of being weak and helpless in an big, mean, world. I liked it.

I must say, battles in the early game are so different from when you blundered out of Irenicus' dungeon: 1 hit here and someone croaks. Got ambushed by a bunch of Kobolds while moving towards Beregost (SCS beefed up encounter) and it was like, a hail of arrows and instantly Jaheira dies. Then Xzar. Then Montaron. xD Or that Ogre south of the Friendly Arm, boom 16 damage, Kagain dies. :D Feels like the best tactic is to hammer the "healing potion"-button when someone gets hurt, and pray the dice rolls are in your favor. Luckily, resurrection costs are minimal, though I hate that they're using the BG2 tables for improving reputation in temples. :S Makes playing an Evil character VERY restrictive.

I'm also starting to remember some of the reasons why I didn't like BG1 as much. The game is very, very slow to get going. First, you have to go to the Friendly Arm, then to Beregost, THEN to Nashkel... I mean, I don't have to, but I want Edwin in my party so I need to get there relatively early before automatic levelup rolls have ruined him. And going to Nashkel means bumping into Minsc, who I want in my party for the consistency with BG2, which means racing out to the Gnoll Stronghold and clearingthat...how I'm going to solve that without either of Minsc or Edwin dying I have no idea.

Here's some screenshot, mainly to show what the graphics look like. I must say I'm quite happy with it. All these images are 1024x768. No widescreen mod, though that doesn't really bother me at all.

1. Not bad for a thief, eh?
2. Candlekeep Grounds
3. Gibberling down! Dragons, next, right?
4. Trapping bears with Imoen
5. Mainchar
6. A gentleman with a proposal
7. Beregost
8. Bandits!

[ATTACH]Not bad for a thief, eh?[/ATTACH][ATTACH]Candlekeep grounds[/ATTACH][ATTACH]Gibberling, down! Dragons, next, right?[/ATTACH][ATTACH]Trapping bears with Imoen[/ATTACH][ATTACH]Mainchar[/ATTACH][ATTACH]A gentleman with a proposal.[/ATTACH][ATTACH]Beregost[/ATTACH][ATTACH]Bandits![/ATTACH]
Selinde Truesword- I am clearly deranged. Look who I travel with! Minsc, meet the Pirate Lord!

Minsc- Pirate Lord? Such a name does not conjure images of righteous behavior. Stand still a moment and let Boo have a look at you.

Desharik- Er, why is your friend pointing a hamster at me?

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Postby olnorton » Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:31 pm

I prefer EasyTuTu for a few reasons, (although I haven't used BGT for a couple of years)
The two games are quite different, in that you are all pretty weak in BG1 & ranged weapons rule.
But ranged weapons are hardly needed by BG2, so waisted points.
There isn't a lot of good weapons in BG1 & with TuTu only covering the BG1 part you can use BG2tweaks to return the much simpler & more appropiate weapon proficiency system.
It also makes modding much simpler, most of the mods are intended for the BG2 part of the game.

You can't romance viconia in BG1, so if you going evil male, be sure to get the BG1NPC mod & do the Sharteel romance.
You can't romance both Viconia & Fade (great mod) in BG2, but it's fun to try.

EDIT: Ignore this, I was replying to the first page, I didn't see the 2nd.