Principles of natural justice

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Fiona
Principles of natural justice

Postby Fiona » Mon Aug 21, 2006 1:56 pm

I had intended to post this before the latest events and I am just back today. I have been somewhat overtaken but the issues I raise seem more pertinent that before if anything, so I have decided to post it anyway.

Recently there have been a couple of incidents which have led me to think about GB as an entity, and about the way it is governed. I do not want to go into the specific things which have made me think about it,( though many people will know about them as they were all public), but I did realise I know very little about the mechanisms. The rules are there, but of course the way rules are actually implemented is at least as important as their content, generally. In most social settings there are checks and balances because even in the dominoes club power tends to corrupt. Some principles are well established and work well in different contexts. I do not know if they are in place at GB, but I hope that they are.

I start with extracts from a PM I sent to a mod. I did not get a reply, but I am interested enough to bring the general points to the board for comment and information. I prefaced my pm with an acknowledgment that I have not been here that long and I am not a member of any other forum. My inexperience may lead me to saying some daft things, but I expect that people will be tolerant of that, as folk usually are here.


On the one hand you tell me that people can get offended by things which are not immediately obvious; on the other you say you personally do not find the other posts mentioned on an equal level with religious belief. Forgive me but this seems to be inherently contradictory. What you find personally offensive is small guide. Dearly held beliefs are often roughed up at GB without any consequence. To some extent this is because certain groups are less vocal than others, either here or in the wider world, and therefore their views are less well known and have fewer privileges. That does not mean they are less important or that criticism is less felt.

More generally, I do not really know what the system is at GB, and I do not know what safeguards are in place for members. I would like to think that the basics are there since banning is a very serious sanction for a lot of us. In particular I would like to be sure that no action of any formal kind is taken, unless and until a complaint is received. There is always a danger of people having too many different roles in this kind of situation, and none of us is immune to personal prejudice or to accumulated irritation ( especially if someone is causing extra work). It is vital that the roles of victim, prosecutor and judge are separate, for obvious reasons.

Secondly, I have not seen anything like this before and therefore have had no opportunity to comment as I have today. It may well be that problems in the past happened on other forums I do not visit, and that they were of a very different character to what we are discussing now. But I would like to be certain of that. As it stands I have to wonder whether some of those problems were like those today; and whether any countervailing views like mine were heard at all? If the matter was dealt with privately it is possible only the complainant was heard, and that would not be ideal, IMO.


Now that is not the most concise or well thought out statement in the world, I grant. But I have thought more about it and I do think the basic points are both important and relevant. GB is not a democracy, as has been pointed out many times, and it need not be. But there are basic rights which are usually in place in any system, and they derive from a variety of sources such as judicial process and constitutions. The ordinary person needs safeguards from abuse of power and mechanisms have to be in place to ensure that:

A list of such safeguards would include:

Separation of powers so that the complainant cannot also be the judge. That is really what I am getting at in saying I hope that no action can be taken unless a complaint is received

The necessity to hear both sides

Open proceedings so that the arguments and the conclusion can be seen to be fair

That is far from exhaustive and I am sure many people can think of other equally important factors.

I am aware that this is a gaming board and adopting this kind of approach might seem a little over the top. However the ultimate sanction of banning would matter very much to me and I suspect it would to others too. So there is reason to ask the question what safeguards are their for members who are under threat of punishment. And I am asking

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Greg.
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Postby Greg. » Mon Aug 21, 2006 2:15 pm

Perhaps if the disciplinary system was better explained, members would be more understanding...

Fiona

Postby Fiona » Mon Aug 21, 2006 2:30 pm

Greg. wrote:Perhaps if the disciplinary system was better explained, members would be more understanding...


Or perhaps they would be shocked to their socks? Just a thought ;)

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Postby Vicsun » Mon Aug 21, 2006 3:17 pm

I personally think the best way to ensure everyone in the forum is 100% happy is to ban all the unhappy people


tell me your opinions I personally think that's a pretty good plan :)
Vicsun, I certainly agree with your assertion that you are an unpleasant person. ~Chanak

:(

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Postby Luis Antonio » Mon Aug 21, 2006 3:22 pm

Vicsun wrote:I personally think the best way to ensure everyone in the forum is 100% happy is to ban all the unhappy people


tell me your opinions I personally think that's a pretty good plan :)


Are you threatening, Vicsun?
Flesh to stone ain't permanent, it seems.

Fiona

Postby Fiona » Mon Aug 21, 2006 3:23 pm

Vicsun wrote:I personally think the best way to ensure everyone in the forum is 100% happy is to ban all the unhappy people


tell me your opinions I personally think that's a pretty good plan :)



I think the mods are ahead of you. Oh wait....you are a mod.....:laugh:

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Postby TonyMontana1638 » Mon Aug 21, 2006 3:45 pm

Luis Antonio wrote:Are you threatening, Vicsun?


Of course not, you saw the smilie.
"Be thankful you're healthy."
"Be bitter you're not going to stay that way."
"Be glad you're even alive."
"Be furious you're going to die."
"Things could be much worse."
"They could be one hell of a lot better."

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Luis Antonio
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Postby Luis Antonio » Mon Aug 21, 2006 3:51 pm

TonyMontana1638 wrote:Of course not, you saw the smilie.


Oh! :)
Flesh to stone ain't permanent, it seems.

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Postby Phreddie » Mon Aug 21, 2006 3:54 pm

Vicsun wrote:I personally think the best way to ensure everyone in the forum is 100% happy is to ban all the unhappy people


tell me your opinions I personally think that's a pretty good plan :)


:HappyFace:

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Postby TonyMontana1638 » Mon Aug 21, 2006 4:12 pm

Luis Antonio wrote:Oh! :)


I know, it reassured me too... Oh, and careful Luis: one word posts are grounds for banning nowadays.
"Be thankful you're healthy."
"Be bitter you're not going to stay that way."
"Be glad you're even alive."
"Be furious you're going to die."
"Things could be much worse."
"They could be one hell of a lot better."

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Postby mr_sir » Mon Aug 21, 2006 5:42 pm

TonyMontana1638 wrote:I know, it reassured me too... Oh, and careful Luis: one word posts are grounds for banning nowadays.


You don't get banned for one word posts. You can get warnings or infractions for frivalous posting if you regularly post only one or two words that add nothing to the thread but are there just for the sake of posting.

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Luis Antonio
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Postby Luis Antonio » Mon Aug 21, 2006 5:50 pm

mr_sir wrote:You don't get banned for one word posts. You can get warnings or infractions for frivalous posting if you regularly post only one or two words that add nothing to the thread but are there just for the sake of posting.


postfarming.

Hm... something disappeared... I dont know what it schwas... maybe a thread?
Flesh to stone ain't permanent, it seems.

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Postby Dragon Reborn » Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:32 pm

nooooooo...mods dont deleate threads just because an argument get outta controll or they dont like whats being said at them. *snicker* for that the ban people! *snicker snicker*
RAWR

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Luis Antonio
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Postby Luis Antonio » Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:34 pm

Dragon Reborn wrote:nooooooo...mods dont deleate threads just because an argument get outta controll or they dont like whats being said at them. *snicker* for that the ban people! *snicker snicker*


In the good old days threads were closed. I miss those days.
Flesh to stone ain't permanent, it seems.

Fiona

Postby Fiona » Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:38 pm

I made a new thread and it disappeared almost before it was up. I was impressed. They must be deleting them before they even read them now

I did try to make a serious point however. CE had mentioned that the rest of us should realise this is not a big thing in our lives. I propose that the mods should think about that and the logs in their eyes :)

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Postby Dragon Reborn » Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:40 pm

like yesterday?

*snicker* i didnt *snicker* know that they *snicker* could deleat threads *bursts out laughing* :D :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
RAWR

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Luis Antonio
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Postby Luis Antonio » Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:40 pm

Fiona wrote:I made a new thread and it disappeared almost before it was up. I was impressed. They must be deleting them before they even read them now

I did try to make a serious point however. CE had mentioned that the rest of us should realise this is not a big thing in our lives. I propose that the mods should think about that and the logs in their eyes :)


I wonder when the hanta virus will reach this place.
Flesh to stone ain't permanent, it seems.

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Postby Dragon Reborn » Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:45 pm

i wonder where the mods went...oh there probably working on closing the threads I can only imagine rav and fiona are making as we speak! :D

whats the hanta virus...and where did u get that quote? pm?
RAWR

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Postby Xandax » Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:14 pm

The newly introduced policy has been "debated" enough. There is no need to make more threads about it, lest when they are littered with attacks towards the moderators/Buck and the policy.
Read Buck's annoucment/stickies for explanations.


This thread is closed.


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