GameBanshee Forums

Okay, so I realize I'm a bit behind the times, but I just read the Point & Counterpoint editorial and wanted to say a couple of things about deity like levels and RPG's in general.

The general question seems to be whether higher levels create poor CRPG's in the sense that it removes the RP portion. I think the answer to that question is maybe. However, consider the response to BG2. When you ask most people what they enjoyed most about the game, the response is usually the NPC romance. Despite the incredible levels of experience foisted upon the PC during the game, what people enjoyed was the RP portion!

To boot, consider the P&P game. Think about how, even though the game was about RP, there was always the moment when you read through the Monster Manual and saw the coolest monster, the one you could never use because you never had a character who was powerful enough to even come close to such a creature. I think the massive levels in BG2 help bring the dreams of incredible opponents back to life. Is the goal to level? No, the goal is to play - and while the fighting is not RP'ing exactly, it is an integral and exciting part of the game. Within the restrictions of a CRPG, I think that high levels don't have to mean loss of the RP aspect, although it can make it more difficult. BG2, in the end, is not about leveling, it's about the story. Contrasted to, say, Diablo, you can see the difference in a game where the goal is to level, and one where the goal is to tell a story. (Not that I'm shooting down Diablo, it's just a different type of game.)

Well, that's my pontifications on that. Anyone else?

I agree with your statment of people enjoying the romance aspect of BG2, but one of the main reasons people enjoyed it so much was because it was a new, and unexplored type of RP in CRPG's. It made it more interesting for those people who were more into the RP aspect of the game, instead of the fighting aspect.

Now, onto the Counter-Point! (I love this part ) About your comment about using that cool powerful creature, it's not always the case that you can't use it because your not strong enough. Why should that limit it? Why not make a creature you have to find a way to avoid? Kind've what they did with Firkraag in BG2. If you were too weak to take on a great red Dragon, you were given the choice to come back at a later time. What could've been done for other such powerful creatures, is to make part of a quest getting around having to fight it, and come up with an alternitive. That way, the RP aspect remains, and you don't have to fight it. Thats one of the great things of RP, and DnD. I've known GM's that love thorwing challenges like that in front of me and my friends, and seeing how we react. The problem with doing that in CRPG's is that people have learned to play using *Ugh* Diablo, which is hack'n'slash the entire game, so developers have to cater to the mass public.

Sadly enough, to most people, the point of the game is leveling up, and become uber-powerful. That does ruin the RP aspect of the game because it means people can chose the bloody path everytime, and pretty much get away with it, without any strategy, or plans. It also unbalences a lot fo the game, and the world. PS:T is the prime example of what a CRPG should be like. In other portian of the game, there was a chance to avoid the combat aspect.

Anyway, there's your counter point. Any takers?

Another problem with fighting godlike opponents even if you have enough levels is the dice rolling. It would take forever to roll the calculate when fighting things such as Beholders, Liches, or a horde of monsters like the the test in Throne of Bhaal where you have to defeat a horde of orcs to pass the test in Watcher's Keep. DnD presents an alternative to fighting, it lets deal with the situation realistically. I don't think anybody will fight all the time in real life. THey probably will negotiate or deceive his opponents to get away without a fight. It's situations like these that make the usually "useless" stats such as wisdom, int, or charisma shine.