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So here is the strange thing, I'm trying to develop a nice build and somehow I ended up with 13 feats on one character (started with 17 and ended with 21 intelligence) and 12 feats on another character (started with 16 and ended with 20 intelligence)

What gives?

How many feats should a wizard get max ?

Depends on the race of the character. I am going to assume your character was a human for the character with 13 feats?

Magrus wrote:Depends on the race of the character. I am going to assume your character was a human for the character with 13 feats?

that's the strange thing, BOTH where human hence why I'm confused why one got 12 and the other got 13 feats. And this is while both got 2 feats at start.

Odd. Here's when you get feats, excluding racial and class bonus feats:

1st, 3rd, 6th, 9th, 12th, 15th, 18th level

So, you should have 7 + 5 (20th level wizard bonus) and +1 for human.

I have two different human wizard builds,

one where I use

8 strength
14 dexterity
15 constitution (+1 asap)
16 intelligence (+4 after)
14 wisdom
10 charisma

and the other

8 strength
14 dexterity
14 constitution
17 intelligence (+4 asap)
13 wisdom (+1 asap)
10 charisma

Now with the second build I end up with 13 feats, as Magrus suggested but with the first build I only get 12 feats.... Can someone tell me why this happens? I've been tinkering around with this but it seems a bit weird.

Are you counting your feats as you select them, or are you looking at the feats tab and counting there? I'm wondering if maybe you selected greater spell penetration, and it no longer shows spell penetration, and if something like that could be the problem.

SWC

@ De_Priester,

Hmm, I think you'll have to post the entire list of feats for each character if you want a better answer than has been given so far to be honest. It could be that you got a feat from something in the story that you are counting.

Another possible reason is if you took a 1st background feat in one of your builds, I think it shows up under a different category than standard feats.

With the build I started with 17 intelligence (human wizard 13 feats) I got:

dodge
toughness
combat casting
greater spell penetration
spell penetration
greater spell focus necromancy
greater spell focus evocation
spell focus necromancy
spell focus evocation
spellcasting prodigy
iron will
great fortitude
empower spell

For a total of 13 feats as it should be

Now whenever I test a build with only 16 intelligence I can end up with

toughness
combat casting
greater spell penetration
spell penetration
greater spell focus necromancy
greater spell focus evocation
spell focus necromancy
spell focus evocation
spellcasting prodigy
lightning reflexes
great fortitude
empower spell

So somehow I end up with one less feat in this build, is this due lower intelligence? I tried this about 10 times now because I was going nuts over it thinking it was a bug but it happens everytime now.

I just tested leveling a 16 int human wizard to level 20, and it worked fine for me. I got all the feats I was supposed to. So I have no idea what's going on with you. Your int shouldn't have any effect on how many feats you get.

SWC

Yeah, all of those seem like normal, that is odd that you have one feat missing. Must be a bug or something.

Magrus wrote:Yeah, all of those seem like normal, that is odd that you have one feat missing. Must be a bug or something.

Well if it was a bug it wouldn't happen everytime I'd think and it does... so I'm kinda puzzled about the whole thing

De_Priester wrote:Well if it was a bug it wouldn't happen everytime I'd think and it does... so I'm kinda puzzled about the whole thing

Well - at what level do you "miss" out on a feat?
Perhaps that can help figure out the reason.

Xandax wrote:Well - at what level do you "miss" out on a feat?
Perhaps that can help figure out the reason.

Okay since I've been working on this a while can you translate this for me in steps so I am sure I won't miss anything

on character creater you receive 2 feats, at 2nd lvl you receive..

lvl1 2 feats
lvl2 ...

Please can you tell me what it SHOULD be so I can walk through it and check, hopefully I can give you an answer that way

You don't get any feats at level 2.

For a human wizard you should have this for a rundown of feats and wizard bonus feats:

1: Human Bonus, 1st level character {you will also get Scribe Scroll for free}
3: 2nd char
5: Wizard Bonus-2
6: 3rd char
9: 4th char
10: Wizard Bonus-2
12: 5th char
15: Wizard Bonus-3, 6th char
18: 7th char
20: Wizard Bonus-4

Magrus wrote:You don't get any feats at level 2.

For a human wizard you should have this for a rundown of feats and wizard bonus feats:

1: Human Bonus, 1st level character {you will also get Scribe Scroll for free}
3: 2nd char
5: Wizard Bonus-2
6: 3rd char
9: 4th char
10: Wizard Bonus-2
12: 5th char
15: Wizard Bonus-3, 6th char
18: 7th char
20: Wizard Bonus-4

ehrm might be my math but aren't those 12 feats? 7 charfeats, 1 bonus for human and 4 from wizard equals 12....

so you get 12 and not 13 meaning the char I created with 13 is a bug and not the one with 12?

Magrus wrote: Odd. Here's when you get feats, excluding racial and class bonus feats:

1st, 3rd, 6th, 9th, 12th, 15th, 18th level

So, you should have 7 + 5 (20th level wizard bonus) and +1 for human.

You say 5 bonusfeats as a wizard but you get the first at lvl 5 so 4 total meaning you end up with 12 right?

De_Priester wrote:You say 5 bonusfeats as a wizard but you get the first at lvl 5 so 4 total meaning you end up with 12 right?

Sorry, yes, the Scribe Scroll feat was in my head when I counted this number. That is technically a wizard bonus feat as well. I honestly do not know how you get the 13 feats excluding that.

Magrus wrote:Sorry, yes, the Scribe Scroll feat was in my head when I counted this number. That is technically a wizard bonus feat as well. I honestly do not know how you get the 13 feats excluding that.

Well I just noticed something else on the build with 17 int, he also has immunity to mindspells (will saving throws on 16 without gear)

Can I just count that one as bugged then and consider this solved? Cuz I wasn't able to recreate the one with 13 feats anyway and I only needed it to compare builds anyway

Yeah, I am assuming so. Could be equipment too. Some items give bonus feats.