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That is mentioned as a "prestige class tip" in the manual, but I thought the CoT was primarily of use to fighters. Does it add something to clerics, or merely substitute a different series of bonus feats? In other words, do you get something new from becoming a CoT, without sacrificing anything you otherwise would have (such as a feat progression) as a cleric?

It's been a while, I think Champions of Torm get bonuses to saves, as well as the standard fighter bonus feats, Hit Point and Base Attack Bonus progression. I may be missing something, but I THINK that is all they get. They would be a good choice for a fighter, or for a martial cleric, or for a paladin as well. The bonuses to saving throws are definately something that a fighter should consider looking into, you don't lose out on feats or combat ability, so why not?

As for clerics, you lose out on your spell progression I believe. So, you would be switching out spells for better hit points, better ability to hit your enemies, and more fighter type feats, as well as the saves. If you want a cleric that can toss high level spells, that prestige class (PrC for short) is a bad choice for you.

Thanks--that does clarify it. Sounds like the CoT would be of more use to a fighter, or possibly even a paladin, neither of which I care to play. At the present time, I'm leaning towards a cleric, or a sorc.

*nods* Exactly. A martial cleric CAN be very good if you want to play a melee type character. The mix of heavy armor and minor spells is a decent one if done properly. In which case, if you want to be able to go after a group of people with a sword and be able to heal yourself, deal with poisons, and improve your combat abilities, it may be worth looking into. However, as I said, it ruins your abilities to cast higher level spells.

Yet, with HoTU, I think you can go up to 30th level or so? In which case, you really do not gain a whole lot in class abilities after 20th level in a caster class. It may be worth considering once you get to 20th level. You won't improve your spells after that level, and may want to boost your combat abilities.

Magrus wrote:Yet, with HoTU, I think you can go up to 30th level or so? In which case, you really do not gain a whole lot in class abilities after 20th level in a caster class. It may be worth considering once you get to 20th level. You won't improve your spells after that level, and may want to boost your combat abilities.

I think it's 40th level. I'm not sure if there are worthwhile feats for the druid, cleric, or sorc above that level; probably a few; but the Red Dragon Disciple looks interesting for a sorc.

That RDD class is something decent if you bring your sorcerer past 20th level, and want to add some defensive abilities to your character. Or, if you want to go just a small amount of levels as a sorcerer, switch to RDD, and then another class. Such as Paladin if you are still Lawful Good, or to get into another class, like Fighter, or Rogue. It does not in any way improve your spellcasting though, that's definately something to keep in mind.

Magrus wrote:That RDD class is something decent if you bring your sorcerer past 20th level, and want to add some defensive abilities to your character. Or, if you want to go just a small amount of levels as a sorcerer, switch to RDD, and then another class. Such as Paladin if you are still Lawful Good, or to get into another class, like Fighter, or Rogue. It does not in any way improve your spellcasting though, that's definately something to keep in mind.

Thanks; good point. I really would prefer to stick with spellcasting, if I went that path, since I understand some of the HotU bosses are pretty tough, and the first time through, at any rate, I'd rather single-class to face them. Especially since I expect my henchmen to contribute very little, given their wonderful AI.

I've tried the Cleric/Champion of Torm build before and I wasn't impressed. You just end up with a weaker version of a Paladin IMO and you'd be better off just going for a Paladin as you will struggle to get to the higher level cleric spells if you multiclass in the Original Campaign or SoU.

mr_sir wrote:I've tried the Cleric/Champion of Torm build before and I wasn't impressed. You just end up with a weaker version of a Paladin IMO and you'd be better off just going for a Paladin as you will struggle to get to the higher level cleric spells if you multiclass in the Original Campaign or SoU.

I see your point. And as far as paladins are concerned, they're not in the cards at the moment. I'm still thinking cleric, sorc, or druid (with DW's insights). Not sure which.

Champion of torm is by far the most horribly insane and powerful class there is in the game of Neverwinter Nights.

Thing is, you can take straight fighter and go in it if I remember. What makes it so powerful is, is it gives you both the progression of a paladin and the progression of a fighter. Feats every other level, smiting and disease removal.

IIRC, this class seriously needed retuning when I played it. It was more powerful than the Wizards of the coast consider most powerful class, the Weapons Master.

EDIT: Just checked, there is only one difference between this class and a gestalt paladin/fighter (Gestalt in DND is gaining both abilities at the same level), you don't gain spells. A paladin gains spells starting at 4th, but this class you don't continue.

Either way, it's still pretty broken.

Well, I'm not looking to be a munchkin. I don't mind having a single class to win, but I'll avoid something that just goes over the top like that. Plus, I like magic. I've always had a weakness for playing characters with a main or sideorder of magic.