GameBanshee Forums

(Sorry to rehash a well-worn SoA topic when you're probably all mad-keen on ToB, but [a] I'm a relative newbie, and here in Australia we don't HAVE ToB yet! )

I have read quite a few posts making statements like "... we all know abjurers are the best specialist mage ..." and "... Edwin is the best mage in the game, even better than a PC specialist mage ..."

Can someone tell me why???

I am playing through for the first time as an Invoker (Envoker?) and two-thirds of the way through the Underdark I am 16th level and (humility-mode-off) I REALLY ROCK!

While this is my first game of SoA, I've played dozens of CRPGs (including BG1).

Why is any particular specialisation better than another (apart from personal playing style/spell preference)??

What about Edwin makes him better than a specialist mage PC?

1)Edwin is best because he can memorize 2 more spells than any other mage. So when he raises a level and all other specialist mages get 2 slots, he gets 4.

2)I don't think that Abjurors are best. I personally think that Conjurers are. How often to you really use divination spells? I know what your thinking, what about identify? Well, there is always the Glasses of Identification!

Just my humble opinion of course

The only PC mage I've been was a Transmuter in BG1. This was fine then since the only Necromancy spells were pish, but now in BGII there are much better Necromancy spells. Abjurations are just things I never use.

Edwin is the best mage in the game becuase of his extra spell slots and his int. of 18.

About best mage class i think it depends on your playing style....i really like necromancy but it's a personal opinion. I also prefer abjuration to conjuration....

The question is not so much which School you like best, but which School you could do without. A Conjurer can throw Fireballs just as well as an Invoker.

The Conjurer's advantage is that his/her Opposition School is Divination, arguably the most "missable" of all. Especially if you have a priest or Inquisitor to provide True Sights anyway.

looks like you guys pretty much covered the basics. For a rousing argument on why Edwin is the best, check the post Nalia is Better than Edwin

The reasoning behind choosing a specialist mage is their Opposition school. For a list of opposition schools you can check this site or you handy BG2 handbook. good luck

Also if u want to know why he has so many spells u should read the villains lorebook (free to download at the WotC site at this address)
[url="http://www.wizards.com/dnd/DnDDownloads_classics.asp"]http://www.wizards.com/dnd/DnDDownloads_classics.asp[/url]

U can read that the Red wizards get extra spells per lvl:
1 for specialising, 1 for being a red wizard and 1 for being a zulkir of a specific school.

Perhaps Edwin is a Fallen Zulkir(or somthing else in their hirarcy) or somthing like that??? anyway 2extra spells pr. lvl is explained.
Extra spells after that I dunno

Wow - with all those extra spell-slots, high ability scores (that matter for a mage) and a bundle of experience/levels/items from adventuring all over the countryside with you for the vast majority of the SoA plot, Edwin could end up more powerful than Irenicus!!!

In the final battle, I'd like to see Jon's face when Edwin gates in just as many 'fiendish friends' to join the fray!!!

high ability scores (that matter for a mage)

He has good Int and Con, but is seriously lacking in the Dex department (unlike all the other Mages, I might add). It bothers me that I have only one pair of Gauntlets of Dexterity between him, Keldorn and Anomen... Would there be a second pair in ToB?

Like every superhero, there is a weakness within. Edwin has bad HP and with his necklace, he can't wear the Amulet of power.

That's as much trade-off as I can think of right now...

Just an hour till the PIES play the EAGLES tonight, can't wait...

the best mage is a sorc.

the best mage is a sorc.

Or perhaps a dual or a multi... Edwin (despite his amulet) still doesn't compare to a well-built PC.

Originally posted by Xyx:
<STRONG>Or perhaps a dual or a multi... Edwin (despite his amulet) still doesn't compare to a well-built PC.</STRONG>

Agree, if Edwin had 5 extra slots he still couldn't compare to a well-modelled PC.

Xyx I thought there was a saving throw penalty if you cast a save-or-else spell from your specialty school? -2 as I recall. And now I have no idea where I saw that, and it's gonna bug me - aarrrgh

On a side note, I found a reference to those "fake" combat swings in the BG1 readme:

p.77 To-Hit Rolls and Melee Combat
In Melee combat, not every swing is intended to hit. A character in
Baldur's Gate may make an "cosmetic" swing during the 6-second round
aside from the actual attempt to deliver damage. This swing represents
the feints and parries that would occur in real combat.

How about that, eh? "Cosmetic" swings. Heh...

@ VelvetFreak: You probably saw that in the AD&D Player's Handbook. Perhaps it's also in the BG manuals, but it would surprise me if it was actually implemented.

And, yeah, "cosmetic swing" would be a good name But why would characters make cosmetic swings at helpless enemies..?

How 'bout this: The best Mage is Aerie! (PCs excluded, of course).

Why? Because she can wear the Helm of Vhailor. The Simulacrum will practically double her spell repertoire for the day, giving her more wizard spells than Edwin, and more priest spells than Viconia. Plus she'll get insane amounts of high level abilities.

man, seems like I'm following you around these days, Xyx. Unfortunately I'm going to have to disagree with Aerie being the best mage. I definitely don't want to rehash the whole mage argument again, but AERIE? Even if she did have the most spells from the helm of Vhailor (which I'm not sure about) it would be the most low level spells. She is multi class. She will never have the good high level spells and abilities of either Edwin or Viconia. She'll be a mediocre mage + a mediocre cleric.

If Edwin caps out in ToB, Aerie should have about half the number of high level Mage spells he has... The Helm makes that even.

Of course, you can also clone your tank with the Helm instead.

I don't think that a simulcrum doubles your spells. The simulcrum comes in several levels lower and lacks your highest level spells.

I have an idea ill make an exrra npc and email it to kensai so he can put it in to his expanshun(sorry)