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No I can't decide what to do! I am currently a fighter, with only 14 str and 18 dex and 18 int. I put such high int because I intended on becoming a mage at the beginning of the game, because I didn't know how PS:T IS. Anyway I'm having massive problems on what to decide what to do!

I could become a thief easily because of my high dexterity and later dropping Annah later, or I could become a mage and drop Dak'kon, but I don't WANT to drop Dak'kon if I become a mage because there are massive experience points to be gained from getting trained in the Circle of Zerithmon and l8er training HIM in it and at the end you get massive exp from raising him from the dead. But I don't like having 2 mages, because mages themselves are weak!

In my party I have Nameless One, Annah, Morte, Fall-From-Grade and Dak'kon. I'll soon get Ignus and later on maybe even Vhailor or Nordom. The thing about PS:T is that there are TOO MANY FIGHTERS. Morte, Vhailor and Nordom are all pure fighters, so that's why I want to drop the fighter class, because I can get more fighers later on. Annah and Dak'kon are also half-fighters, too! So I can't decide what to do.

Here are some guidlines I want to follow to help out my decisions on who to make up my party and what to become:
-I don't want to drop Morte, even though he's a crappy fighter (only 12 str, 16 dex and 16 const! but it goes up if you talk of the Pillar of Skulls....) because I like his personality, it makes the game funny! He's also cute, a floating skull!!
-I don't want to drop Fall-From-Grace 'cus she's my ONLY priest and therefore my source of aid spells and healing spells
-I want a powerful mage, so either I could become one, and drop Ignus later on, or I could not become one, keep Ignus and drop Dak'kon. But if I become a mage, I'll keep Dak'kon because massive exp can result. But keeping Dak'kon also means I have 2 mages, even though Dak'kon is a half-mage, but still I don't like 2 mages (mages die easily)
-I could become a thief and drop Annah later on, or become a mage and keep Annah. I don't want to drop her right away 'cus I didn't get exp from her kissing me or anything else yet. Plus I need at least one good thief in my party because I love pick pocketing and lock picking. Nothing beats stealing stuff for free!
-I want some good fighters, I can't use up all my spells on one stupid zombie. I usually save my spells for powerful creatures like wererats, Tropicanos (is that how you spell it?) or whatever else i might encounter.

So what do you think I should do? Become a mage or a thief?

Hello and welcome to GameBanshee.

PS:T is different from other RPGs, and you can change your class easily. It even doesn't matter your stats. You can still be thief with 12 dex. (You should pump up your Wisdom a lot, though. It's the most important stats in the game and you can get more experience points)

You need to talk to trainers and train as each profession to access to the new class first. After that, you can change your class by talking to either trainers or your party members (if you want to change to thief, speak to Annah. Speak to Dak'kon for mage or fighter). For this and story wise, I strongly recommend keeping Dak'kon. Morte is also important to keep till the end.

If you don't want two mages, you can change NO back to fighter/thief after you gained exp for mage class. Mage can fight in PS:T well, though weapon type is limited.

Okay, here's my advice.

Stats: Don't put any extra points into Strength or Constitution until you reach really high levels. (Other stats are more important. Strength bonuses don't make a huge difference in combat--you'll win most battles, anyway--and hit points aren't a big issue since the Nameless One regenerates and recovers full hit points if he's killed.) Make sure your Dexterity is at least 13. Add points to Charisma until you reach 16. Put as many points as you can into Wisdom.

Class: Become a 12th Level Fighter, then switch to the Mage class. Put as many proficiency points into Knives as you can. The great thing about changing classes in Torment is that you can retain most of the benefits of being a Fighter no matter what class you happen to be at the moment. For example, you'll retain the THAC0 and proficiency points you earned as a Fighter even if you're a 1st Level Mage, although you'll be restricted to weapons a Mage can use. That's why I recommend putting proficiency points into knives. In order to become a Mage, you must have someone besides Dakkon teach you the Art, but once that happens, Dakkon can train you whenever you like. It's not easy to find the best spells in the game, but some of them are really good and worth the wait.

Party composition: Let Annah handle your thieving needs. If you want to earn an incredible amount of experience really fast, let her backstab larva worms underneath the Clerk's Ward. (The Rubikon is also a great place to earn experience and gold, and you can use it as a teleporter.) Let Dakkon train you as a Fighter and a Mage. Give Annah and Dakkon tattoos and other items that boost their Strength and Constitution. Find Nordom, upgrade him, and equip him with the Lens of Seeing Double. He can kill a lot of monsters before they ever reach your party. If you can acquire the Aegis of Torment, give it to Nordom and he'll regenerate hit points. At low levels, Morte makes a great tank because he has high resistance to damage, especially if he uses Clot Charms and other items. Fall-From-Grace also makes a good party member, but keep her out of melee. Let her concentrate on healing spells and lightning strikes and things like that.

Strategy: Talk to EVERYBODY, pay attention to details, and have a good time! You don't need to rush, and you should savor every minute of the game.

Well I've done my stuff.

Well i guess it's too late, I've become a mage, level 8 already and I was a level 8 fighter before. Level 8 mage? I just got trained to become a mage and I start out as level 8?? What's with that, I thought I start at level 1! Anyway I've decided on my stuff. I'm going to get Nordom, keep Morte, Annah and Fall-From-Grace. Dak'kon I'll keep for the rest of the game 'cus he's a fighter/mage and he's pretty good at fighting. He doesn't damage as much as I'd like and he gets hit a bit too much but it's better than a pure mage with 4 hp. I will get Vhailor but I read that if you talk to him right he disappears and you get lots of experience. When you kick someone from your party in PS:T, do they stay where you kicked them and they can rejoin or do they leave forever? I know in Baldur's Gate some ppl you kick they just stay at that spot and can rejoin if you talk to them.

Any, N1 has:
str 14
dex 18
con 10
int 18 (good for mage)
wis 12
cha 13
I know my wisdom sucks so I'll up that right away asap. I didn't know wisdom was so important in this game. I thought it just was good for clerics, I didn't know it adds lots of more things to say to ppl. So I'll up my wisdom and if I need my charisma to increase, I can just use the friends spell to up it 2-5 pts, which is good.

VonDondu you are ignoring class specialization.
You should get level 7 and 12 first in the class you want to keep.

If you don't you'll miss out on stat gains, and also you won't be considered double-specialized for certain dialog options, and you also miss out on the best tattoos for your class.

Your advice would make him miss out on this Mage tattoo;
"TATTOO OF THE MAGI
Special:
+3 to Intelligence
Doubles all 1st Level Mage Spells
Doubles all 2nd Level Mage Spells
Weight: 0
Usable only by Mages

This tattoo represents the fact you have achieved the pinnacle of your skills in the arts of magic. This tattoo enhances your natural talent for the Art considerably, heightening your reasoning and deductive abilities, and doubling your spell memorization capacity for minor spells."

And read this from Dan's FAQ;
"____________________
Specialization Bonus
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
The Nameless One also gets a Specialization Bonus at the 7th and 12th levels of whichever class he currently is. You only get each bonus once, so if you take the 7th level fighter bonus, you can't get the 7th level mage bonus. You could, however, take the 7th level fighter bonus, then the 12th level mage bonus. If you do THAT however, you will end out taking the 7th level mage, as you must have the 7th level specialization to get the 12th.

Fighter:
7th: + 1 STR, able to have 4 proficiency in a weapon
12th: + 1 STR, + 1 CON, + 3 HP, able to have 5 proficiency

Mage:
7th: + 1 INT
12th: + 2 INT, + 1 WIS, + 5 Lore

Thief:
7th: + 1 DEX
12th: + 2 DEX, + 1 Luck"

And you don't think it's worth it...

No, I wasn't ignoring class specialization. I just didn't say anything about it because I was trying to keep things simple. Since CannibalBob is having trouble making decisions, I didn't want to make things worse by giving him too much information.

So here's my reasoning for choosing the Fighter specialization bonuses. (They're the reason why I advised him to advance to a 12th Level Fighter.) CannibalBob doesn't want to be weak in melee, so the ability to use knives with five proficiency points would help quite a bit. (Having ten hit points per level also helps.) I advised him not to add any points to Strength or Constitution, so the Fighter specialization bonuses also help make up for that. There are two Tears in the game that raise Constitution (which can be used as long as the NO is Lawful Good), and there are opportunities to raise Strength and other stats through dialogues. (The dialogue with Vhailor comes to mind.) As for the tattoos, I think that Annah should be given both the Tattoo of the Warrior and the Tattoo of the Supreme Warrior. I give the NO tattoos that increase his rate of regeneration, increae his Wisdom, increase his Charisma or Intelligence as needed, and improve his armor class. I think those help the most. The reason I give the real goodies to other party members is because I don't believe in making the NO a bad-ass at the expense of the party; I'd rather build up the entire party and let other party members do some of the heavy work. In the Fortress of Regrets, Nordom and Annah are particularly protective of the NO, and I think that's a lot more meaningful and a lot more touching if you have allowed them to be the Nameless One's "bodyguards" the whole time. Besides, I think that helping them develop is an end in itself.

Passing up the other specialization bonuses, such as the Tattoo of the Magi, is a difficult tradeoff. But if you choose to take the Mage specialization bonuses, then you can't give Annah the Tattoo of the Warrior and the Tattoo of the Supreme Warrior--and to me that's a lot to give up. (Not to mention giving up the proficiency bonuses for the NO.) It just comes down to what you prefer, and I told CannibalBob what I think he should do if he can't make up his mind.

Re: Well I've done my stuff.

Originally posted by CannibalBob
Well i guess it's too late, I've become a mage, level 8 already and I was a level 8 fighter before. Level 8 mage? I just got trained to become a mage and I start out as level 8?? What's with that, I thought I start at level 1! Anyway I've decided on my stuff. I'm going to get Nordom, keep Morte, Annah and Fall-From-Grace. Dak'kon I'll keep for the rest of the game 'cus he's a fighter/mage and he's pretty good at fighting. He doesn't damage as much as I'd like and he gets hit a bit too much but it's better than a pure mage with 4 hp. I will get Vhailor but I read that if you talk to him right he disappears and you get lots of experience. When you kick someone from your party in PS:T, do they stay where you kicked them and they can rejoin or do they leave forever? I know in Baldur's Gate some ppl you kick they just stay at that spot and can rejoin if you talk to them.

Any, N1 has:
str 14
dex 18
con 10
int 18 (good for mage)
wis 12
cha 13
I know my wisdom sucks so I'll up that right away asap. I didn't know wisdom was so important in this game. I thought it just was good for clerics, I didn't know it adds lots of more things to say to ppl. So I'll up my wisdom and if I need my charisma to increase, I can just use the friends spell to up it 2-5 pts, which is good.

I'm not sure why you levelled immediately to an 8th Level Mage. You get experience early on when you become a Mage, which bumps you up to 3rd or 4th Level before you even train, but I don't know what else could have caused it.

Fell can sell you tattoos to increase your Wisdom, and that would help a bit. I wouldn't say that you have done anything "wrong" so far. Just go with the flow, put your focus where you want it, and carry on.

As I recommended earlier, you should give tattoos to Annah and Dakkon to increase their Strength and Constitution. As Platter and I discussed, the tattoos you that become available from Fell when you reach 7th Level and 12th Level (when you get your specialization bonuses) are very desirable, but I usually give them to other party members instead of the Nameless One. Annah rocks, and so does Dakkon. One thing I forgot to mention about Dakkon is that he can use spells to buff himself up. Try Strength, Blur, Haste, and Luck (all at the same time), for example. He'll deal out more damage in melee than he would by using low level offensive spells, so the tradeoff is worth it.

It's really up to you how you want to play the Nameless One. Personally, I prefer to let him avoid combat as much as possible unless he throws himself into a suicidal beserker rage. I suppose it's cheesy, but if the party gets stuck in a tight spot, letting the Nameless One be killed can put the party in a safe zone--and the NO will have full hit points when he wakes up. If you want to play the game as a realistic RPG, you shouldn't do things like that. But if you want to play the game like a video game where you can exploit all its features and take advantage of tricks like that, go right ahead. It's up to you.

As for kicking people out of my party, I never do that unless I have to. For example, you have to enter the tomb alone, and near the end of the game, your party might become separated. There are also a couple of other situations where a party member might be temporarily absent or the Nameless One might be caught alone. Also of course, you'll have vacancies open in your party until you meet the NPCs you want inside your party. So take advantage of those opportunities while you can. For example, if you want to recruit Ignus temporarily to exploit what he can offer you and then dump him, do it while you have a spot available in your party instead of waiting until your party is full and you have to kick someone out. As far as I know, kicking out party members doesn't have any adverse effect (it doesn't seem to lower their Morale, for instance), but they don't like it, and I don't like to do it. Normally, they stay where you leave them.

Since you seem to have had the impression that Torment is a lot like other RPGs such as Baldur's Gate, and you were not aware that stats such as Wisdom have a dramatic effect on the game, it might be useful for us to point out some of the differences to you. The Nameless One is a blank slate, so to speak, and you can play him and have him develop any way you want to. As you've probably noticed, his alignment is determined by the choices you make. You can also determine his disposition, and you can choose your own strategy for playing the game. It jall depends on your own playing style. Theoretically, there are only four opponents in the entire game who must be killed (starting with the zombie who has the key). In all seriousness, you don't have to kill anyone else. In my opinion, combat isn't really all that important. I still want to be able to kill anything in my path if the need arises, of course--I enjoy playing a bad-ass as much as anyone else--but I think it's more important to look for alternatives. You never know what might turn up. Unlike other RPGs such as Baldur's Gate in which body counts are extremely important, the vast majority of the creatures you meet in Torment are not hostile. Why should you go on a killing spree? There are strategic advantages in killing hordes of larva worms and high threat constructs, but the game itself will remind you that typical adventuring like that is just mindless killing; setting it apart and restricting it to a couple of areas should emphasize that the rest of the game isn't really like that. To me, the conversations you can have are a lot more interesting than any of the battles. But you'll probably enjoy some of the battles, just the same.

I don't mean to scare you, but if you haven't pursued all of the dialogue options in your path so far, you might have missed a lot of things. For example, there's a character named Stale Mary who can teach you the ability called Stories Bones Tell (I can't remember if there are minimum stat requirements for that), and there's another character named Mebbeth who can aid you if you ask her the right questions and do the right things. Some quests are easy to find, and some aren't so easy to find. To me, the game is more about being a detective than being a warrior. That really sets Torment apart from other RPGs.

If you get all the right items you can memorize Magic Missile 36 times by Mage level 29, and actually cast it 72 times with the spell "Enoll Eva's Duplication."

Just a... random little factoid there...

Powergaming is great, Platter. I missed out on things like the Magic Missile trick when I played the game, but hopefully CannibalBob can master them all on his first run through the game.

One more thing, CannibalBob. In case it's not clear, you can switch classes at any time. All you need to do is find a trainer. If you have Annah and Dakkon in your party, you can switch to Fighter, Mage, or Thief whenever you please. Just keep in mind the class restrictions. Before you train to 9th Level Mage, you might want to switch to Fighter and become a 9th Level Fighter, then switch back to Mage and become a 9th Level Mage. I think you'll figure it out if you just try it a couple of times.

Also, if you want to put four or five proficiency points into a weapon type, you have to find a trainer who can help you do that. Some trainers can only help you put two or three proficiency points into a weapon type, at which point they'll tell you that they can't teach you anything else. So be sure to talk to more than one trainer.

Bah if I go to level 9 in all 3 classes, I'll be done the game. I just want to play the game good, not continually go through Rubikon constantly killing for hours on end... you know I don't want to just spend hours building up xp, I want to continue the story! Plus after this, I haveta play Baldur's Gate+expansion, then Baldur's Gate 2+expansion, then Icewind Dale, then I wanna get Icewind Dale 2. Then there's Morrowind (massive game!). Ooh I should finish Redguard. What about Age of Wonders 2? Oh yeah gotta play that one too. Oh yes let's not forget Fallout and Fallout 2! Commandos 2? Thief! Ah Wheel of Time, Rune? Unreal.... Unreal 2? Ah Return to Castle Wolfenstein! Blood 2!!! Oh yeah. Grand Theft Auto 3 (naw don't like it)... Bah there's more where that came from (such as Deus Ex, Jagged Alliance 2, No one Lives Forever, No One Lives Forever 2, Soldier of Fortune 2 and... Battlezone 2!)

Think that's all? Naw there's more. But I don't want to talk about it.

Anyway I just kept at mage, I actually started at level 3. Stupid infinity explorer said I was level 9.

Crap forgot 2 more big games, Pool of Radiance and Neverwinter Nights. Argh. Oh and Warcraft III..... Any more, CB? Why yes, but the others are not RPGs and hence will only take a week or so to complete....

Obviously, you enjoy playing games. Or at least, you think you're going to enjoy playing all of those games.

I've played several "big titles" over the years, but I never tried to play a bunch of different titles in a short period of time. Some games don't take long to complete, but their real value lies in their replayability. Take a game like Doom, for example. When I first started playing it, I could make my way through most of it without any major difficulties. But some of it was almost impossible. The more I played it, the more skilled I became as a player. That was the reason for playing it over and over. Eventually, those "impossible" situations were no longer impossible. When the game wasn't challenging enough anymore, there were MODs and expansions. When I got to the point that a level wasn't challenging unless it had a bunch of cyberdemons, it was time to quit (or time to enter contests and death-matches). Warcraft and Starcraft were kind of the same way. Even when I reached a point where my skills stopped improving, I still enjoyed facing the same challenges over and over. If I say "Garden of War with five opponents" to my boyfriend, he knows exactly what I'm talking about. We had lots of fun. Unfortunately, I didn't have time to play other games when I got wrapped up in one. So I probably missed out on some other great titles. In hindsight, I wish I had played Ultima: Underworld instead of Wolfenstein 3D. But that's just the way life is. You can't always play all the games that are out there, but hopefully you'll enjoy the ones you do get to play. I for one am pretty happy about the games I've played.

As a rule of thumb, I think it's a good idea to play games in the order in which they were released, at least when it comes to certain games. Every new release tends to "set the bar", so to speak, and usually, the next game released is a little better. How much you enjoy a game depends a lot on your expectations, so I think it's a good idea to play games that successively get better and better. For example, Baldur's Gate is a fine game, but Shadows of Amn takes it to new levels.

On the other hand, replayability also comes into play for me. Even after playing BG2, BG1 did not lose its appeal. Once you see how the saga ends in Throne of Bhaal, you might want to go back to the very beginning and play BG1 again. That's what I did. It's a new perspective, and it brought everything full circle. If the question is, "Which one should I play first," then I think the answer is "BG1". If the question is, "Should I play BG1 again after I finish Throne of Bhaal," then I'd say "yes".

One of the best things about PS:T is that the main character is the "center of the universe", so to speak. He's not an anonymous hero who shows up just to kill the monsters. You take everything that happens to him personally. That makes everything he does more interesting. That personal element is also present in the Baldur's Gate series, where you can personalize your character even more. He's a bad-ass, he's important, and he's you. That makes the game fun, and it makes the story come alive.

I haven't played IWD, but from what I've seen, it seems to be a little less personally involving than BG1. On the other hand, the combat in IWD looks more exciting than the combat in BG1. For that reason, after you've had a chance to hone your playing skills in BG1, I think IWD would be a good next step. (I didn't play it because I didn't have time to do so before BG2 came out.) After playing IWD, I think it would be a good idea to play Shadows of Amn and Throne of Bhaal. At that point, I would either take a break from Infinity Engine games (and play something else) or else play IWD2. Actually, I did both. I stopped playing the Baldur's Gate series for several months, and then I started playing IWD2 a couple of months ago.

I had mixed feelings about IWD2. On the one hand, it takes RPGs to a new level. Character development is complex, the plot is intricate, the game looks and sounds great, there are hundreds of characters (or at least, it feels like there are), there are tons of puzzles, you travel all over the country, and the monsters don't stop coming. IWD2 has everything but the kitchen sink. If you want to play a challenging, epic game, IWD2 is great. On the other hand, IWD2 was...overwhelming. If I hadn't played BG2 several times, I think just about everything in IWD2 would have intimidated me. You really have to be a trooper if you want to play IWD2. It just goes on and on, and you need to keep a diary if you want to keep up with everything that's happening and everything you've done. (Who did I talk to? What did I do? I can't remember, since so much has happened.) Also, since there are about 200 different magical swords to choose from (unlike BG1, where if you find a magic sword, you're going to keep it), you need to be able to make up your mind and decide which one(s) you want to keep and which ones you need to get rid of.

As you mentioned, IWD is combat-oriented. So is IWD2. The storyline is almost impersonal. "We're the heroes, they're the bad guys, and someday we'll be powerful enough to defeat them and win the game." That's what's important. PS:T is obviously a lot different, and so is the Baldur's Gate series. I don't know how going from one kind of game to the other is going to make you feel. But you might take that into consideration. Again, what you expect from a game will affect how much you enjoy it. So try to expect the right things.

I just bought Fallout and Fallout 2. I've already installed Fallout 2 and played it a little bit, but Fallout doesn't run under Windows 2000, so I don't know what I'm going to do yet. I'd like to play Fallout (the original) first. I also intend to make sure that I play it under the best possible conditions instead of jumping into it half-heartedly just because I feel like I need to play it and get it over with. I might have played IWD2 when I shouldn't have (I was worried about the war and other things), and that might have had an adverse effect on my reaction to it. I'm glad that I played it because I needed the distraction, but I wish I'd had more fun. You can play whatever games you want whenever you want, but that's my opinion on the subject.

I heartily agree with your statements about PS:T. I found when I played the game, I kept thinking to myself, "What would I do if I was the NO?" That was very interesting. I find in BG and others I mostly say whatever I want as long as it gets me something good (ie gold, experience, items).

I find IWD is much more combat-oriented and PS:T is much more story oriented. The fighting in PS:T is just so you can "show off your XP". BG is sorta a mixed bag: it's not as personal when you play it, it also has lots of fighting too... it's mostly get out of town and fight a lot, then go back into town and tell people what you did and collect quest fees.

You should check out Morrowind. It's a great free-for-all game. The only thing that sucks about it is that there's no definite 'goal'... well there kinda is but it's not apparent. In PST you're trying to find out who you are, and in BG you're trying to find out who killed Gorion. Icewind Dale is just mostly travel around, people want you to do stuff, you do it and continue on. Morrowind is more you know you haveta to somewhere but you can decide to go there later on. It's really cool, I highly recommend buying it (or downloading it... whatever you want).

Originally posted by VonDondu
I just bought Fallout and Fallout 2. I've already installed Fallout 2 and played it a little bit, but Fallout doesn't run under Windows 2000, so I don't know what I'm going to do yet.

"Q: How do I install Fallout under Windows NT/XP?

A: Click on the link below for instructions on how to manually transfer Fallout 1 onto your computer under Windows NT/2000/XP.

http://www.interplay.com/fallout/faq.html

Also copy the critter.dat file to the fallout directory.

To run Fallout 1 under XP, you also need to run the compatability program: Start->Programs->Utilities(?)->Program-Compability Assistant"