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I want to ask you all a question, fellow SYMers, and it is one that has bothered me for quite some time, how do people reconcile killing and murder, and other such horrors with their religion. It seems like every major religion has a prohibition against killing, yet people still kill even rationalize that they are not doing a bad thing when they kill, or claim that it is God's will to kill, I am not just talking about those stereotypical Muslim terrorists, I am talking about people like Bush, or Blair, or I don't know some other so called good religious people, people who genuinely believe in good values. Yet at the same time they will either directly or indirectly violate some of the most basic tenets of their faith, and still call themselves as in the case of Bush, good Christians. People like the rightwing Christians who support Israel, but only for the reason that it would bring about the endtimes, people who support murder rape whatever it takes to get their goals accomplished, so that great end time can come and all 'good' Christians will go to heaven while all the unbelievers and sinners will go to burn in hell for all eternity. How do these people consider themselves good Christians, good anything, if daily they violate their own beliefs, I asked one of my friends who is heavily religious this, and he confessed he did not know. I don't know either, I am not religious myself, but have always had a respect for those few real Christians out there, or real Muslims, or real Budhists, it seems to me that by the tenets of their own faith why do any of them really think they are going to a reward, aren't they sinning by perverting their own religion.

It's a matter of good and evil, yeah but whos evil and whos really good, it seems there are few good people in this world, and many evil people who believe that they are good.

Damn this depresses me, and I just came from the war thread, must go on mad killing spree to take mind of depression, anyway for now some mindless ICWII slaughter.

You're not alone, man...

...trying to figure that out myself. Perhaps trying to reconcile their religious beliefs with what they do in the name of their god(s) is something beyond me.

Hypocrisy is common in everything, it seems to be a part of human nature.

Religious Hypocrisy exists.

Thats why I believe in atheism (or humanism, more specifically).

Originally posted by Nightmare
Religious Hypocrisy exists.

Thats why I believe in atheism (or humanism, more specifically).

You don't think hypocrisy can exist in Humanism?

I can only speak about Christianity - Christians who find justification for abhorent things generally look to the Old Testament for support. The New Testament's "11th Commandment" was to "love one another," "love your enemies," and so on. Obviously this isn't much help to those who want to use violence, so they find ample support in Old Testament quotations (which, incidentally, are always taken out of context). When not looking for support in the Old Testament, Christians can find some in the later apostles' books (Paul, Acts, Revelations, etc.), but I doubt you will find any back-up for violence coming from the 4 gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke & John) of the New Testament.

I think that one of the great ironies of the New Testament is that in a world where the majority of people tend to think very concretely, very literally, the whole thing is written allegorically, in parables. It was doomed to be misunderstood, and twisted to suit certain people's ends.

Well, there is certainly a lot of grey area within whats considered right and wrong, and how much one can push the border. And the individual, defines where their own borderline between right and wrong and the moral tension within those restrictions for him or her selves. So people like Bush or Blair or Osama may have defined their own lines of morality, and filled in their own preferences to fill in the grey area to ultimately decide what is considered right and wrong and what God has intended. And sometimes they could feel they are just simply doing a "justice".

Or theyre just not thinking...not thinking at all...

It's a matter of good and evil, yeah but whos evil and whos really good, it seems there are few good people in this world, and many evil people who believe that they are good.

Now wait.....
No religion ever requires its followers to be perfect. We are but humans, and we sin. Theres no stopping it. Not everyone in this world kills or commits vile acts of crime. And within the most twisted minds and the most innocent minds, there is always a sign of good. It could be burried, or it could be voluminous...but upon our birth, we invested some good within us. But we all commit sin, so contrary to the good, there is also an element of evil within us. These sides create tension within ourselves through life. Evil is the side that is easier to follow, so that can prevail more then good, but the stronger the person is, the more they can fight it.

Only the extreme people can truly be considered "evil" or "good". Certainly there are heroes and there are twisted minds. And often there are more sinners then heroes, but you simply cannot make a huge generalization that the masses are more evil then good. Good people typically can commit sin, and evil people are often capable of comitting good deeds.

But I understand what you are saying. The people that are in power are generally the minds that are corrupted or do more visibly bad things over those who do beneficial things. And these people in power are often representing a larger group of people. But remember, this larger group of people do not, necessarily, follow the same ideals as their corrupted leader. So while people like Bush and Blair are going to invade another nation that they really shouldnt, that doesnt mean that all the people they represent would want to do the same thing.

Those who truly have lost control of their minds and consider themselves "good" but are evil, are really just not thinking right anymore.

Those who commit evil things that cause thousands to die under for petty reasons, and call themselves good in their religions are wrong.

Hypocracy is in everything. Just look at the Yin and Yang symbol. Somewhere along the line there is good in the bad, and bad in the good. It's simply a matter of choosing which side you'd like to see.

Personally i think the whole religion thing is just there for people to set guidelines. It gives them something to follow, which i think is wrong. Religion throws ideals at you. I think people should form their own opinions. Let their own moral compass tell them what's right. That doesn't have much to do with the subject at hand, but i thought i'd just mention it.

First off, I agree with those who have said here that human beings are fallible and will rationalize many reprehensible behaviors that will help them reach their goals. This is not limited to any one particular religion, either. Over the centuries pretty much all religions have been corrupted in this way, including Buddhism, which most people believe to be an indiscriminately peaceful religion.

Different religious traditions have different views on and justifications for warfare. You can read about Buddhist just-war ideology in an article from the Journal of Buddhist Ethics. And Catholic just-war theory can be found at this site.

My personal opinion, as a Christian, is that war is neither "always right" nor "always wrong". I don't believe in absolutism. I think that sometimes warfare is unfortunately justified for the defense of a nation. Each case has to be examined seperately and discernment has to be applied. Some wars are justified; others are not.