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This is a public query addressed to the 1812 thread. I could PM those involved but its not worth it if no one else sees . This might be construed as a poke in the eye to Mr Sleep but that is not my intention.

I think the situation has been completely misread. Is the war of 1812 not a friendly bone of contention or matter of rivalry between the US and Canada (as evidenced by thug's retorts)? We've all seen the top 10 things about being Canadian - 5 of them are for burning the whitehouse. Aegis' songs are specific adaptions of Johnny Cash and Johnny Horton Songs. I thought they were quite ammusing, actually.

Only after Ysh's post did I think they *might* be misconstrued. Did anyone complain? Were they misconstrued? Mr S only closed them after a given time and no response. Maybe it is bad timing but there's been an awful lot worse posted in far less well-intentioned spirit that has been left up to fester in the name of freedom of speech - with no regard for the feelings of others.

Might I add that War of 1812 was a piffling affair - a US attempt to open a "Second front" if you will to assist Napolean against the British (amongst more base motiviations). It was really British troops who burned the whitehouse (which was painted white only after the burning). Canada was merely a colony.

Originally posted by Gruntboy
Canada was merely a colony.

uh, so was america once.

I admit to being ignorant of the events, could I have been alone in considering this some kind of possible chest beating then? I did not complain, I stated publically my thoughts...

The way I see it is, if you are not so sure your audience will receive your post as intended, then be wary of posting.....

Thank you Grunty! I appreciate someone noticing the humour value of it, and obvious unwarranted closure of the thread! Also, thank you for just backing something I said in my PM to Sleep about much worse things having been posted (and allowed to stay open).

@ Aegis if you have a complaint please take it to pms..

Originally posted by T'lainya
@ Aegis if you have a complaint please take it to pms..

I already have. that was the first thing I did when I saw it closed. But, what you just told me here, was basically I am not allowed to voice my public outrage, which is blatant censorship. I was thanking Gruntboy for speaking up for me, during my absence from the board.

Originally posted by Aegis

Thank you Grunty! I appreciate someone noticing the humour value of it, and obvious unwarranted closure of the thread! Also, thank you for just backing something I said in my PM to Sleep about war worse having been posted (and allowed to stay open).

To be honest, Aegis, personally I would rather be comfortable that the humour in what I was posting was obvious - ie it gave no ground to ambiguity and misunderstanding...we should take some care on a multinational board...

I agree that there have been occasions when there have been some more questionable comments posted, but the reason for having moderators is to ensure that threads do not get out of hand....

I'm not advocating censorship, as I have no problem with what Grunt posted. And you've already showed your public outrage. I wasn't aware you had pmd someone about your complaint and I think you know the rules well enough to know that I always suggest pming the mod first before publically screaming about a problem.

Originally posted by Yshania


To be honest, Aegis, personally I would rather be comfortable that the humour in what I was posting was obvious - ie it gave no ground to ambiguity and misunderstanding...we should take some care on a multinational board...

I agree that there have been occasions when there have been some more questionable comments posted, but the reason for having moderators is to ensure that threads do not get out of hand....

You know, if the situations were reversed, you would probably be just as peeved as I am. The humour was very obvious! look at the first few lines (The comments about no T.V., Hockey Night in Canada, and the CBC!)

Also, when have I been known for intentionally, or even unintentionally, posting things that could be considered a national insult? I scan everything I post, and make sure that it won't insult anyone! Besides, I see plenty of Americans on the board making fun of Canadians, and the Canadians here take with a grain of salt and a grin, but the moment I post something that is actually somewhat pro-Canadian, it gets closed. It is hypocracy, in it's simplest form.

Also, if the questionable content is talking about a war that Americans did lose, then I guess we should stop discussing WWI, and WWII, as me might offend some Italians, or Germans in the process. Also, any mention to the 100 Years War is certainly out of the question because we might insult the French.

So, explain this to me, why is it for people to post Pro-American, or Pro-British threads, but something that is just slightly Pro-Canadian, with an obvious humour attempt thrown in, is closed within 12 hours of being opened.

Originally posted by T'lainya
I'm not advocating censorship, as I have no problem with what Grunt posted. And you've already showed your public outrage. I wasn't aware you had pmd someone about your complaint and I think you know the rules well enough to know that I always suggest pming the mod first before publically screaming about a problem.

I pm'd Sleep before I even left the thread! And yes, I am fully aware of the rules. Also, I'm not saying your censoring Grunts post, but rather mine. I voiced my thanks to Grunt where everyone could see it, but I'm told no.

Originally posted by Aegis

You know, if the situations were reversed, you would probably be just as peeved as I am. The humour was very obvious! look at the first few lines (The comments about no T.V., Hockey Night in Canada, and the CBC!)

Also, when have I been known for intentionally, or even unintentionally, posting things that could be considered a national insult? I scan everything I post, and make sure that it won't insult anyone! Besides, I see plenty of Americans on the board making fun of Canadians, and the Canadians here take with a grain of salt and a grin, but the moment I post something that is actually somewhat pro-Canadian, it gets closed. It is hypocracy, in it's simplest form.

Also, if the questionable content is talking about a war that Americans did lose, then I guess we should stop discussing WWI, and WWII, as me might offend some Italians, or Germans in the process. Also, any mention to the 100 Years War is certainly out of the question because we might insult the French.

So, explain this to me, why is it for people to post Pro-American, or Pro-British threads, but something that is just slightly Pro-Canadian, with an obvious humour attempt thrown in, is closed within 12 hours of being opened.

@Aegis, don't rant at me, I only stated that your post could have been misconstrued - and it was. If the humour was so obvious, why are we here now?? And regarding being "peeved" no I wouldn't, I do not put myself in that situation, it is not worth the angst. I understand the first few lines as possibly being humourous, but the regular chant of burning the White House and calling Americans babies? It seemed unnecessary to me. Call me an idiot, but hockey nights and CBC mean nothing to me...

My comment was not a personal attack, it was merely an observation. Consider some that may not post in SYM as often, what may they think? And regarding anything pro-Canadian being closed, do you want to provide examples and comparisons?

I take your last question to ask why it is "ok"?? for pro-American/British threads to be posted? IMO it is no more acceptable. All posts depend on the context...

Originally posted by Aegis
I pm'd Sleep before I even left the thread! And yes, I am fully aware of the rules. Also, I'm not saying your censoring Grunts post, but rather mine. I voiced my thanks to Grunt where everyone could see it, but I'm told no.

I fail to see where asking you to take a problem to pms is censorship...
Obviously this is going nowhere.

Originally posted by Yshania


@Aegis, don't rant at me, I only stated that your post could have been misconstrued - and it was. If the humour was so obvious, why are we here now?? And regarding being "peeved" no I wouldn't, I do not put myself in that situation, it is not worth the angst. I understand the first few lines as possibly being humourous, but the regular chant of burning the White House and calling Americans babies? It seemed unnecessary to me. Call me an idiot, but hockey nights and CBC mean nothing to me...

My comment was not a personal attack, it was merely an observation. Consider some that may not post in SYM as often, what may they think? And regarding anything pro-Canadian being closed, do you want to provide examples and comparisons?

I take your last question to ask why it is "ok"?? for pro-American/British threads to be posted? IMO it is no more acceptable. All posts depend on the context...

You can't say you wouldn't be peeved though. I know you are generally a person with strong opinions, and you like to be heard if you have a point to make, so by saying you wouldn't even be, in the slightest way, miffed about a closed thread is a lie straight to my face. Also, about the humour being misconstured, one person posted a complaint. Only one, and it was by a person that is a well known Patriot of America. About the comment of the lyrics that call the Americans Babies, alright, that may be a bit on the edge, but there have been things said about Canadians on these boards that are far worse (of which I'm not going into detail, as that is not the matter of discussion).

Also, known what the CBC and Hockey Night in Canada is rather irrelevant, but due to it's obvious misconnection with the rest of the song, it is a sure fire thing that the song is, in totallity, a parady and spoof on the War of 1812.

For an example of a Pro-Canada post being closed down, you have just below! It was offensive only on the smallest scale, while some of the posts by some of the Americans on the boards (especially during the 9/11 incident) where ten times more offensive, yet they are allowed to stay, as Grunt has already pointed out for me.

Lastly, just because this is a multinational board, that, by no means, means we have to sacrifice our own National pride, just so we don't accidently offend some other person from a seperate nation (Hell there goes a large amount of small pokes, teasing, jokes and other related humour for a lot of people on these boards). Sleep closing the thread has indirectly told me that Canadian Patriotism is not as tolerable as American or British Patriotism. Also, if we were to go by what you said, that there should be no Pro-nationality threads, then we are just becoming a censored community, which will not grow, or expand, but merely settle as is. It also discourages any sense of individual patriotism on these forums.

Originally posted by T'lainya

I fail to see where asking you to take a problem to pms is censorship...
Obviously this is going nowhere.

And you fail to see the fact I have already taken it to PM!

@Aegis, I may be many things but I am not a liar. Shame you have come to perceive me this way. I may also be opinionated, but I am not one to deny another's point of view, nor the validity of it. One person posted a complaint, but it referenced my possible misconstrued post in your own thread...just because only one spoke up (in both instances) does not mean that only one misunderstood (in both instances). My stance here is not pro-American, my issue was that I may not have been the only one to misunderstand your intentions...

There were many emotions flying during 9/11, threads were closed down - as you might recall. Allowances were made because of the circumstance, but overall I thought the mods did a very good job all things considered.

Re nationalism, we grow within our communities in RL and OL, and if our 'communities' are biased and chest beating we will chase our own tails. It is a wide world beyond our garden gate....

Why would we need to publically profess individual patriotism here - on this board?? when it has proven to be damaging IRL? Even the Football World Cup caused upset, why bother? We are dead a long time. This needn't be necessary.

<edit> it is late here, I am off. Feel free to take this to PM.

@Aegis...

I will be honest...as you know I am quite familiar with the cultural references that were made, yet I did wonder if perhaps the tone of what was written might be viewed as offensive by some.....

Further....you are calling good friends of mine liars...and that is even more offensive... you should know better than to engage in such behaviour.....

Originally posted by Kayless
Hmmm... Well isn't this topic is a hot potato. Did I know Aegis was making a joke? Yes. Did I find it funny? Not particularly. Was I offended? A little (the repetition of the burning the White House line, ad nausem, started to get to me). I don’t think anyone here has a problem with Canadian patriotism though. If Aegis had simply made a topic about how Canada rocks I daresay no one would have been offended. It’s that he decided to beat America down to build Canada up. If I wrote a limerick about how cool America is because we nuked Hiroshima... Well I wouldn’t blame anyone for being offended (that's an extreme example, I admit). There are plenty of stuff you can use to show why Canada is great, but IMHO burning other nations' capitals is not one of them. So let's have a topic about the real reasons Canada is great.

I respect your honesty, but also I cannot take credit for writing those lyrics. they were in fact written by a group called "The Arrogant Worms". Ironically enough, it was an American compan that published them

To rebut, though, I don't think thats true, about people having a problem with Canadian Patriotism. I'm starting to see why our government and media is begining to say we need to become more assertive. We have been viewed as a timid nation, globally, for so long, that when a Canadian stands up, and makes a wise crack at our neighbours, the community (wherever that may be) gets into an uproar, because it is not the Canadian thing to do.

My biggest problem, though, is not whether or not people enjoyed the thread or not, but the fact that something that was minutely offensive was closed so promptly, when other, more offensive threads, are allowed to remain open, in the "spirit of free speech" (to find them at this point would cause this post to not be finished for a great deal of time, so I will post links to them when I find more time). This is censorship of Canadian pride, because it speaks against the Americans in a jocular manner.

The thing that bothers me the most, is that if an American member posted this, it wold probably be received differently.

I don't get it...I thought that Canada and the US are friends Why would you want to burn down the White House???

I wish I lived in Canada (Maybe like Toronto, or some town in southern Canada).....

Just thought Id backup my friends up north with some Canadian pride from an American