GameBanshee Forums

Seriously, I just started watching dragon ball Z, and vegeta is SO friggen cool. Note the new avatar... or not, depending on if it worked...

But in everything a character with an evil side is way more interesting. Look at Lore instead of Data from Star Trek TNG.

or a... The black guy, Tyr from that stupid andromada show, if hes not a main char that episode, I dont bother watching.

Then theres Othello and Iago, Macbeth, Javert to name a few from classic literature.

Think about it, how much do you care for the goodie goodie hero compared to the slightly evil guy>??

It's because it allows people to explore the darker side of people. They are "cooler" because they stand for rules. It's the classic rebe without a cause type of thing.

Originally posted by Obsidian
or a... The black guy, Tyr from that stupid andromada show, if hes not a main char that episode, I dont bother watching.

Tyr rocks the house. The Nietzscheans of Andromeda are more “alien” in their values and cultural personality than most of the extra-terrestrials on Star Trek.

Villains are cooler because they get to do all the fun stuff. Shooting stuff up, making evil one-liners, being feared by everyone. Actors always say that villains are much more fun to portray than heroes.

Villains are cooler because they are flawed. Traditional heroes (as opposed to modern ones) have no flaws. They also advance the plot. Without them, there isn't any story. Milton admitted to his friends that he found Satan far more interesting to write about than the Good Guys, and wondered what was wrong in his nature. Nothing was wrong--if you don't count the fact that he was a good writer.

Originally posted by fable
Villains are cooler because they are flawed.

And here I was thinking the papers had been sealed. One day when I have the time I will refute the study and prove I'm not flawed.

Well, besides the whole space combat thing, Darth Vader was the coolest part of Star Wars.

@Aegis
You really take the fun out of a discussion with your succient, no nonsense answers

@Kayless - I concur

As for actors enjoying being villians more, I do a bit of dabbling in the finer arts, and I agree. I'd love to play Javert!!
He'd be sooo cool. Not that Jean Val Jean is boring, probably cuz he's flawed.

@fable - You mention how "modern" heroes are flawed. ?

Originally posted by fable
Villains are cooler because they are flawed. Traditional heroes (as opposed to modern ones) have no flaws. They also advance the plot. Without them, there isn't any story. Milton admitted to his friends that he found Satan far more interesting to write about than the Good Guys, and wondered what was wrong in his nature. Nothing was wrong--if you don't count the fact that he was a good writer.

you got that kind of backwards...traditional heroes are flawed...most common: hubris. maybe our definitions of traditional are different, i am thinking of as far back as classical greek.

The "old" tragic greek heroes were flawed as were those from the Shakespearian times. However fable might be pointing to the golden age of Hollywood. Or maybe a little later like Conan

My pov.

Most villains have visions, as well as more developed thoughts about moral, religon, philosophy etc. They are generarly more intellegent and planning than the heroes. Its often easier to put their emotions, actions and thought in relation to your own.

edit: They also differ from society more than the heroes usaly do. And are more likely to challange cultural patterns.

This is obviously not true for all villains, but its true for those who are cooler than the heroes.

Originally posted by nael
you got that kind of backwards...traditional heroes are flawed...most common: hubris. maybe our definitions of traditional are different, i am thinking of as far back as classical greek.

By traditional, I meant in terms of the 20th century media. The traditional hero was represented by The Whistler, Superman, James Bond: bigger than life, without any real flaws (as Western culture judges flaws, that is). The flawed anti-heroes like Sam Spade and John Constantine are always more interesting, because they're less predictable, and you can suffer and triumph vicariously through them.

Now, if we're going to speak about Greek heroes--they're really more like hero-villains in the modern sense, all rolled into one. Their flaws propel the plot forward. What lies between them and modern anti-heroes is a shift of world view. The Greek heroes remained heroic, because there is something noble and grand and tragic about being human (as the Greeks might say), condemned to die by the gods and the fates. The modern anti-hero doesn't fight the gods; he fights his own nature, and at best achieves a temporary stalemate in which he reaches an immediate objective. But the anti-hero still has to face a ruined and bitter life. That's one of the reasons I think Hammett is an exceptional writer. His villians are great fun--who can forget Caspar "The Fat Man" Gutman or Joel Cairo, from the Maltese Falcon?--but his heroes like Sam Spade are just as compelling. Their flaws are huge, and they lie just this side of the people they're chasing.

For two intersting examples of how a character's emotional state affects the way people react to them I recommend Ghost in the Shell and Neon Genesis Evangelion. The latter in particular is an excellent example.

bad guys are cool because (in modern standards of course) they are depicted out to be cool

imagine an alternative universe where people that wear shoes on there hands are cool?

look at gangster rappers to me with there baggy trousers hanging around there knees just looks plaind to me

but to some people it's cool

cool is how you sees it

Snoochie Bootchies