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Do we as human beings have a natural predisposition to worship? I don't mean religion specific, you just have to look at the stadiums and terraces of your local sports ground to see people praising the stars.

So is this a continuation of a latent need to worship something, or is a it a backlash against an assumed religious culture.

Opinions?

i don't know.. maby God as an entity is too abstract. So people need something more grounded to worship. and that could be a movie or sport star.

What do you mean by woship? I like some cricket players, but heck i don't kiss the groun they walk on. Might be me, never found a reason to worship a movie star or sports figure.

I personaly dont feel any need to worship and I cant find any things in my life that act substitute for religion, So I think It is a cultural thing more than a human need.

Another reason for worship could be that people want to unite around a cause to feel safe, Both in a cultural and physical way.

Originally posted by CM
What do you mean by woship? I like some cricket players, but heck i don't kiss the groun they walk on. Might be me, never found a reason to worship a movie star or sports figure.

Some people do, maybe you don't get the same press in Cricket that we get that surrounds Football in the UK. Beckham is praised like a mythical figure of some kind, i call it worship, what would you call it?

The sociological function of religion is to fill people's need to follow something and it allays their fear of death. Without either of those two, people wouldn't go to church.

EDIT
People "worship" popular icons (sports figures, movie stars, etc.) because we can live vicariously through them all of our failed dreams and hopes. For instance, not everyone can be a good looking guy like Harrison Ford, but if we watch his movies or follow him around, we hope to absorb a little bit of his aura. We also like to build people up to being larger than life, then when they fail to meet our vision, we like to tear them down (sick isn't it?).

Sleepy i wouldn't know really. I would agree that our sports players are not described like gods or the like. But i can understand what you mean. It might be because of envy. But honestly i don't have a clue. I will most likely do what i normally do with no spam threads. Sit it out, read and learn from people who make sense!

Originally posted by HighLordDave
The sociological function of religion is to fill people's need to follow something and it allays their fear of death. Without either of those two, people wouldn't go to church.

For some. Personally, I worship God out of love, gratitude, and thankfulness.

I wonder whether we shouldn't first agree on a definition of "worship." For some people, after all, worship is an expression of love to a creator. For others, it's a mode of thanks. For some, it's a sort of request box. Some do it out of rote, while others abase themselves from a sense of humility. The deciding factor, I think, isn't personality, but what worship, the act, means to each.

But if worship applies to a creator, how about the term "hero" worship, which has been mentioned already.

I didn't really want the conversation to fall onto why people worship a deity, it was more specified towards the Hero Worship that HLD referred to:

People "worship" popular icons (sports figures, movie stars, etc.) because we can live vicariously through them all of our failed dreams and hopes. For instance, not everyone can be a good looking guy like Harrison Ford, but if we watch his movies or follow him around, we hope to absorb a little bit of his aura. We also like to build people up to being larger than life, then when they fail to meet our vision, we like to tear them down (sick isn't it?).

There was some scientific research released last year (sorry, I can't cite this) that stated there is a specific part of the brain used for 'supernatural' thoughts. This part of the brain is much more active during prayers. It is also more active in religious people than those who aren't. So any disposition towards worship probably comes from this part of the brain (if it's true). I would guess any direction of worship towards famous people over religion would just be a backlash for some failures of religion.

There were more details I remember hearing, but I'm not gonna work on putting out wrong facts. I do think that it's also like an anti-logical part of the brain.

Personally, this part of the brain must be completely shut out for me. Then again, my brain works overtime on logic.

Most of the hero worship in the world is probably because it is people watching people do things that wish they could. Attatin a certain level of skill, or of noteriety. I know thats how I veiw Tolkien.

I agree with HLD...

There are two power instincts: the need to lead, and the need to follow. I might say some things which religious people strongly disagree with, but remember, I do not believe in God, but respect those who do (despite thinking them to be wrong). The instincts to lead and to follow can be confused, alrthough they are sometimes very clear. I guess the instinct to follow is more common. In religion however, one would assume that everyone has the instinct to follow (i.e to follow God), but this is not so IMO. A bishop may have a religious instinct (which is very similar to the follower's instinct), but he also has the leaders instinct. This concept is most clear in the pope - Definately a Leader, but defined be being absolutely servile to God. That's where the leader, follower, and religious instincts get confused. In a football match too, the religious instinct (or probably to call it 'worship instinct' is more appropriate) is involved too. I believe that people believe in god because they have an unchangeable subconscious desire for something in the universe at large to care about them. They believe that if God cares about them, they become more powerful, through him. The same thing happens with cults: a cultist's will is done for him by a massively powerful organisation, so it feels as if his will is being done because of him. He is the powerful organisation! So when a cult makes a political impact, the cultist thinks 'I made a political impact!', even if he was not involved in the campaign, and when Beckham scores the winning goal against Arsenal, the Man U fan thinks 'I have beaten Arsenal!'. He is a follower and worshipper by nature. It's instinctive, and I don't think it is changeable at all. Once you are the type to hero-worship (or Deity-worship for that matter), you always will be, just as sure as you will always need to eat.

I can see your point of view, however i am not so sure that it can be categorically attributed. I do think that some people have a predispotition to religion but there are people like Eminem who seem to veer more towards an intellectual decision rather than instinct.

To say that someone will always be predisposed to worship is not necessarily true either, i know of many different examples in my extended family, at least 3 or 4 used to go to chapel and worship but are now more opposed ot apathetic to that life.

My next question becomes what would you say (if anything) you do praise with fervour or worship or whatever one wishes to call it?

editted to read 'cult' instead of Nazi. However, I stick by my original point...I am not saying that religious people are Nazi's - I am saying that they have the same instinct to follow. The instinct to follow is neither positive or negative though - it is neutral...for example, there is absolutely nothing wrong with Nazis, other than their violent, racist, oppressive and discriminative agendas. I'm sure everyone would agree. Nazis' haircuts are not necesarily bad, their artistic taste is not necesarily bad, and likewise their instinct to follow is not necesarily bad. It is only the instinct to follow which I am claiming to be similar in theists and nazis, no other characteristic whatsoever. It was just an example...now edited, and I'm sure that you all realise I am not so ignorant as to believe that thiests are nazis or racists or anything other than ordinary people... anyway... what do *I* hero-worship?

David Bowie.

Originally posted by frogus
what do *I* hero-worship?

David Bowie.

As i suspected I was just wondering if there was anything that you consider you hold above all else and have almost the same appreciation for as others do for God...okay maybe you don't have one?

Logic. The only thing that gets me angry is a refusal to accept logic...I imagine it is similar for a Christian when someone just refuses blank to accept God.

I guess that would make Socrates my god-figure, but I am unsure if this is an instinct or not. Any thiest will tell you that they came to believe in God through rational reflection, but I am convinced that this is not the case - I believe that it is an irrational subonscious instinct which makes them believe in God. It could be the same with me...maybe logic cannot be arrived at through rational thought, but is just there or not there. However, I think that it is a component of consciousness, in the same way as meaningfullness.

anyway...I don't think that's really connected...it's not really the same as hero-worship. I tend to have the impulse to better myself, rather than to rely on better people to make me feel good. Unless I'm in denial...

Originally posted by frogus
Logic. The only thing that gets me angry is a refusal to accept logic...I imagine it is similar for a Christian when someone just refuses blank to accept God.

It depends greatly (again) on the individual situation, a (rational) christian wants that person to accept God but not through force since that defies the point, if one is to accept it the acceptance must be between the person and God.

I guess that would make Socrates my god-figure, but I am unsure if this is an instinct or not.

In my opinion i would have said Socrates is as much a mythical figure to me as God is to you, since it there is only writings as proof of existence in the same way as the Bible, the dividing line comes from the fact that Socrates is a human being not a deity. In this it requires a leap of faith to accept that Socrates was the being you assume he is, practical or not.

anyway...I don't think that's really connected...it's not really the same as hero-worship. I tend to have the impulse to better myself, rather than to rely on better people to make me feel good. Unless I'm in denial...

Perhaps you have enough of a self image to not need a Hero to worship. I don't worship anything myself, i appreciate many things, such as musical artists (Dave Bowie reference ) but i don't worship anything... this is half my reason for asking this question, i see 55'000 people sitting there cheering some mythical football player and i wonder why i don't feel that like others.

Originally posted by Quark
There was some scientific research released last year (sorry, I can't cite this) that stated there is a specific part of the brain used for 'supernatural' thoughts. This part of the brain is much more active during prayers. It is also more active in religious people than those who aren't. So any disposition towards worship probably comes from this part of the brain (if it's true). I would guess any direction of worship towards famous people over religion would just be a backlash for some failures of religion.

As a human brain researcher, I'll add to this since I know the study you are referring to. Here is the abstract:

Psychiatry Research 2001 Apr 10;106(2):113-22
The measurement of regional cerebral blood flow during the complex cognitive task of meditation: a preliminary SPECT study.
Newberg A, Alavi A, Baime M, Pourdehnad M, Santanna J, d'Aquili E.

This study measured changes in regional cerebral blood flow (rCBF) during the complex cognitive task of meditation using single photon emission computed tomography. Eight experienced Tibetan Buddhist meditators were injected at baseline with 7 mCi HMPAO and scanned 20 min later for 45 min. The subjects then meditated for 1 h at which time they were injected with 25 mCi HMPAO and scanned 20 min later for 30 min. Values were obtained for regions of interest in major brain structures and normalized to whole brain activity. The percentage change between meditation and baseline was compared. Correlations between structures were also determined. Significantly increased rCBF (P<0.05) was observed in the cingulate gyrus, inferior and orbital frontal cortex, dorsolateral prefrontal cortex (DLPFC), and thalamus. The change in rCBF in the left DLPFC correlated negatively (P<0.05) with that in the left superior parietal lobe. Increased frontal rCBF may reflect focused concentration and thalamic increases overall increased cortical activity during meditation. The correlation between the DLPFC and the superior parietal lobe may reflect an altered sense of space experienced during meditation. These results suggest a complex rCBF pattern during the task of meditation.

I'd also like to add that no behavioural or cognitive functions emanate from a specific area in the brain, the increased activation of blood flow in the left dorsolateral prefrontal cortex does not mean this area "produces" the state of mind that occurs during meditation - activation is not the same as "coming from". Also, the DLPFC is a well investigated area that is involved in many different things, for instance eye movement and visuspatial memory. That's why the Newberg et al suggest their results could be related to an altered sense of space.

The question of a biological or even gentical base for religious or mystical experiences has a long history, and nowadays it has become an issue for neuroscience, as examplified by Newberg's SPECT study. There is a famous neurologist called VS Ramachandran, who have done studies of patients with temporal lobe epilepsia, and he suggests that the temporal lobes are the human "god module", the biological base that is required for mediation of transcendent experiences. There's another researcher called Persinger, who has built a device which leads a magnetic field through the temporal lobes, and some subjects then experience mystical perceptions. Then of course thereis Penfield's classical study where he stimulated septum with an electrical currency and the subjects got mystical perceptions.

From the pharmacological side, there is even more research regarding religious experiences and feelings of religions ectasy. Hallocinogenic drugs like LSD, psilocybin and mescaline can elicit this kind of experiences also in people who are not religious.

In any case, I personally don't view religious worship as necessarily the same this as worshipping and rock or sports idol, but I'm convinced it can be the same thing in some people, and it's also possible that both of them has the same fundamental underpin as a basic drive in human nature. I have many ideas about this, but since this post is already too long, I just say I agree with HLD and Frogus Also note that human life is totally dependent on model learning, and an idol can serve as a model.