GameBanshee Forums

http://www.iht.com/articles/55089.htm

An interesting article i read in the hearld tribune.
Bush seems to be doing far better now than when he first came into office.

I ask everyone to be sensitive in their comments about 9/11, even though the shock of the event may be wearing off, it doesn't mean that it isn't still a touchy subject.

*mod cap off*

Personally i am not that impressed with Bush as a President, it seems to me that his party and Mr Cheney run things more than him. Also big business plays far too important a role in their party polotics.

I agree Sleepy, that Bush is merely a figure head when it comes to many things. But as the president he is supposed to be the man in charge, but i also believe that bush is really dumb has been exaggerated to great lenghts.

Anybody have any clue what the rating of Bush is in the US?

Originally posted by CM
I agree Sleepy, that Bush is merely a figure head when it comes to many things. But as the president he is supposed to be the man in charge, but i also believe that bush is really dumb has been exaggerated to great lenghts.

Anybody have any clue what the rating of Bush is in the US?

So you are not of the school of thought that suggests he is less than fluent in the arts of cognitive appreciation? I must admit that he does strike me as slightly incompotent, although there is no reason that this isn't merely a facade. I don't get to see the day in and day out of the Bush presidency, what i see isn't exactly awe inspiring although the recent Colin Powell campaign in the Middle East was impressive for a presidency that has mostly been internal so far.

Dubya has two ratings over here, one for his "war" on terror and one for all of his other policies. His approval rating for the "war" on terror is high, as Americans typically unite behind their president during times of national security crises (Vietnam being the only notable exception of this century).

Dubya's approval rating for his other policies is markedly lower and slipping. People don't think he's handled the economy well, and the general perception is that the economy is rebounding on its own, not through any action of the president (to be fair, Clinton had a similar policy of keeping his head down and mouth shut and letting Alan Greenspan manage the economy). There is also a general perception that Dubya has handled the situation in Israel and the West Bank poorly and that he is more interested the promoting his buddies in big business (hence the ballistic missile shield that we really don't need but will make a lot of money for his and **** Cheney's buddies in the defense industry) than in protecting everyday people.

Dubya is one of the least qualified presidents that the United States has ever had; his biggest selling points during the campaign were 1) his dad was president, 2) he was governor of Texas and 3) he once owned part of a baseball team. Having said that, Dubya has done a good job of surrounding himself with people who generally know what they're doing. Sure most of them worked for his dad, Reagan or Nixon, but people like Rumsfeld, Powell, Rice et al are among the best at what they do, regardless of party affiliation.

We'll know how the American public in general feels about Dubya when the mid-term election results come in, because if we think highly of the job he's doing, Republicans will generally do well. If we collectively think he's a poor president, the Democrats will gain seats in the Senate and probably take over the House (much like the Republicans did in the 1994 election, when Newt and his "Contract With America" gained control of our nation's legislative entities). That will give Dubya two years to turn things around to face his own re-election.

As to Dubya's intellectual acumen, he's not a dumb as he looks or sounds, but he is by no means Stephen Hawking or even Woodrow Wilson. Dubya got through Yale, although by all accounts he only got in because of who his father was and even then only slid by, but still, someone who graduates mid-pack at Yale would be valedictorian at most other universities. I think part of it is an act, and part of it is simply a matter of his mouth moving faster than his brain.

No don't get me wrong, i do believe he is incompetent, and a moron. But things get blown out of proportion. He might be dimwitted, but i doubt he is a navie kid who lets others do his work. As for the past 1 and a half, it has been rather boring. Heck gore would have been more lively on the international stage than this guy. I think Powell carries FP of the country alone. He shouldn't let Bush interefere with his work!

I don't have a real opinion on George W. - he's kind of "faceless" - some kind of grey guy in front of a grey wall....if you get my drift...

I kinda miss the exitement about Clintons blowjob ....that was funny - especially if you take into account that nobody here could really understand all the fuss....
Most people here thought that the Lewinsky affair should have been a private affair between Hillary and Bill....all this inquisition stuff (K. Starr and is loonies) was so ...well....AMERICAN.

No worries,

Beldin

Originally posted by CM
No don't get me wrong, i do believe he is incompetent, and a moron. But things get blown out of proportion. He might be dimwitted, but i doubt he is a navie kid who lets others do his work. As for the past 1 and a half, it has been rather boring. Heck gore would have been more lively on the international stage than this guy. I think Powell carries FP of the country alone. He shouldn't let Bush interefere with his work!

Most presidents are puppets for big business, the UK currently has the same problem, Blair and his government got in on the backing of big business. It has tarnished their entire campaign much as Enron did for the US, although it was made into a joke in the US it was very serious.

On the subject of Bush, i do think that his speeches have been poor and i do think that he is not a fast thinker, he is not like a normal polotician who thinks on his feet and can act quickly. It is probably something that endears him to the US public as a whole.

Originally posted by CM
I think Powell carries FP of the country alone.

Powell has actually been locked out of Dubya's "inner circle" of advisors. Shortly after being appointed to office along with the other cabinet members, Powell was the victim of a power play by some of Dubya's other people (Rumsfeld, Cheney, Rice, etc.) and has been shut out of the major decision-making process.

I really miss Boris Yeltsin's presence in the international political scene. Sure, he was constantly drunk, and had really poor health, but boy could he dance! The news was much more fun when Boris was in power.

Originally posted by HighLordDave


Powell has actually been locked out of Dubya's "inner circle" of advisors. Shortly after being appointed to office along with the other cabinet members, Powell was the victim of a power play by some of Dubya's other people (Rumsfeld, Cheney, Rice, etc.) and has been shut out of the major decision-making process.

That seems quite strange since he is the only member of the presidency that seems to have an obvious concerted ideal on the middle east and Europe. Powell is about the only one i have anyreason to respect for at the moment.

Originally posted by Mr Sleep
That seems quite strange since he is the only member of the presidency that seems to have an obvious concerted ideal on the middle east and Europe. Powell is about the only one i have anyreason to respect for at the moment.

Unlike his boss and the other senior advisors in Dubya's administration, Powell realises the importance of a stable middle east (or at least a middle east without a shooting war going on). Perhaps it's because of his experience with the Gulf War, but Powell also realises that the United States cannot act unilaterally without consequences. Dubya and his cronies think that the US can do whatever the hell it wants without regard for others when, in fact, that is not the case.

As the Chariman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff for the Gulf War, Powell appreciated and wanted the participation of a coalition of allies, and that translates into his foreign policy view. Dubya has no such perspective; sure he flew in an Air National Guard squadron, but that was just an excuse not to go to Vietnam.

Powell has a worldview that includes the United States as part of the world community; Dubya has a world view that puts the US first and everyone else behind us.

Originally posted by Mr Sleep


Most presidents are puppets for big business, the UK currently has the same problem, Blair and his government got in on the backing of big business. It has tarnished their entire campaign much as Enron did for the US, although it was made into a joke in the US it was very serious.

Yeah, but all govts are like that, in the case of Bush it is blatantly obvious, that he is the pocket of bg businesses.

Originally posted by Mr Sleep

On the subject of Bush, i do think that his speeches have been poor and i do think that he is not a fast thinker, he is not like a normal polotician who thinks on his feet and can act quickly. It is probably something that endears him to the US public as a whole.

I think his speechs are well written, but the delivery sucks. He is not a charismatic figure really. Clinton was very charismatic, and following him, Bush is having a tough time pulling anything off after clinton's speeches.

Powell has a worldview that includes the United States as part of the world community; Dubya has a world view that puts the US first and everyone else behind us.

Dubbya gets a lot of support from the people for this though, in fact it seems to be one of his saving graces (to the US public) Perhaps i have read things incorrectly, but it seems that there is a lot more concern from the people that the US comes first.

To be fair to Dubya, there is nothing in the job description for the President of the United States that says he has to look out for the rest of the world or be its leader, morally, economically or politically.

The United States Supreme Court handed Dubya the presidency so that he could be the leader of the most powerful nation on the Earth and in fact, his only job is to look out for us. Not Israelis, not Germans, not Sri Lankans; Americans are first and foremost his charges (in part because that's his job and also because we hold the keys to his re-election).

It is the job of any head of state to look after their own countrymen first, whether we're talking about Tony Blair, Jean Chrétien, John Howard, Dubya or anyone else. Having said that, Dubya must realise that he is literally the most powerful man on Earth and that the stability of the United States depends on the stability of the rest of the world, especially in a climate of globalisation. However, people in Andora aren't going to re-elect Dubya, so he doesn't play as hard to them.

Powell locked out?
I heard about that but i thought it was just rumors.
That really sucks, out of all of them, powell is the only man i respect.

Originally posted by HighLordDave


Unlike his boss and the other senior advisors in Dubya's administration, Powell realises the importance of a stable middle east (or at least a middle east without a shooting war going on). Perhaps it's because of his experience with the Gulf War, but Powell also realises that the United States cannot act unilaterally without consequences. Dubya and his cronies think that the US can do whatever the hell it wants without regard for others when, in fact, that is not the case.

As the Chariman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff for the Gulf War, Powell appreciated and wanted the participation of a coalition of allies, and that translates into his foreign policy view. Dubya has no such perspective; sure he flew in an Air National Guard squadron, but that was just an excuse not to go to Vietnam.

I happen to agree with the POV expressed above. I don't necessarily agree with his politics, mainly because these have gone unstated--a Sec of State is supposed to be the mouthpiece in global affairs for his/her administration. But how long do you think, given what youj've said above, that Powell will last? Dubyah's already pulled the rug out from under Powell in Israel, praising Sharon while sending Powell to make demands of him. It almost looks as though Powell is being deliberately setup by the administration for a fall; as though Dubyah's inner clique is afraid of Powell's charisma, and that he'll be the Republican candidate-du-jour in two year's time.

Originally posted by fable
It almost looks as though Powell is being deliberately setup by the administration for a fall

I would not put this past Dubya's administration, although I don't think that is their primary reason for negating his influence. I think that Dubya never really like Powell, but he realised that he brought name-level recognition and credibility to his fledgling administration, even though it was really Cheney, Rumsfeld and Ashcroft calling the shots. It also helps that he's black.

Dubya also needs to say that he tried and failed in Israel, even though I think that no one in their right mind will blame Powell for Dubya's neglect of the middle east, no matter what spin the administration puts on it. Say what you will about Clinton and his middle east policy, but on his watch things were fairly settled and the body count was no where near what it has become with Dubya in office. I believe that Powell wanted to stay engaged with both the Israelis and the Palestineans, but since the Republicans opposed nearly all of Clinton's peace intitiatives, it only made sense to Dubya to pull out of the region completely.

I think that Powell scares mainline Republicans because he weilds a temendous amount of popular respect and 1) he's black, 2) he's not in the hip pocket of the NRA, Christian Coalition and the Right-to-Lifers (the Republican's bread and butter constitutency for the last 30 years), and 3) because he's black. If he ever runs for president, I don't see him running as a Republican; the party's far right wing will torpedo him like they did McCain. I think he'll either run as a conservative Democrat or as an independent moderate candidate. Either case scares the bejesus out of hardline Republicans.

Originally posted by HighLordDave
I think that Powell scares mainline Republicans because he weilds a temendous amount of popular respect and 1) he's black, 2) he's not in the hip pocket of the NRA, Christian Coalition and the Right-to-Lifers (the Republican's bread and butter constitutency for the last 30 years), and 3) because he's black. If he ever runs for president, I don't see him running as a Republican; the party's far right wing will torpedo him like they did McCain. I think he'll either run as a conservative Democrat or as an independent moderate candidate. Either case scares the bejesus out of hardline Republicans.

I tend to agree with this. At first I thought he was being groomed for the Presidency, but then I realized, after reading the signals from the Christian Far Right and the Old Guard, that they actually disliked him intensely. I think it's not just a matter of color and being out of the grip of the popular rightwing lobbies (though both of these reasons are doubtless present). I think it's also because he's a respected General with an international victory under his belt, and a moderate-- at least, as they conceive of a moderate. Moderate politics are a rank stench to those people, and Powell's enormous visibility and charisma just makes his star soar higher while Dubyah comes off looking more and more confused. If Powell were to run on a separate tomorrow I think he could probably best Dubyah, even with all the sabre-rattling rhetoric and money at the GOP's command.

And do you know, there's never been a successful general, other than Winfield Scott, who has ever run for President on a two-party ticket in the US without getting elected? One even came in second in one of the rare three-party races: Teddy Roosevelt, whose Bullmoose Party split the Republicans, handing the Presidency to Woodrow Wilson. Reason indeed for the Republicans to shudder.

Powell is a lot like Ike in that they were both wooed by the Republicans and Democrats alike because they didn't hold a strong party affiliation at the ends of their military careers. Just as Ike was out of touch with the core Republican constituency, Powell is too, but I think that for Powell, it was the Democrats's traditional opposition to a large and powerful military that put him in the Republican's camp. If he has major political aspirations, he may come to regret that choice as he encounters opposition and overt racism from the Republican's right-wing WASP core.

I don't know that Powell wants to be the President of the United States. He may feel that he's done enough for his country as a public servant and may feel that his talents and name are better used in other pursuits. I think that if Powell is ousted before the end of the Bush Administration (and he probably won't last a full term; most of the major cabinet appointees don't), he will probably explore a run at the presidency but it probably won't be until at least 2008. The key for him will be to keep a visible public profile, but not to tip his hand too early.

The trick for the Democrats is to convince Powell that they can pacify their own liberal constituency after nominating a center-right military black candidate and not devolve into the political infighting and pandering that has hampered them for years. If Powell chooses to run for president, I think it would be keeping within the confines of the "Powell Doctrine" that he wouldn't do so without having a fairly good chance at winning. He would not have run the same type of campaign that Al Gore did and let the opposition party control the agenda and tone of the campaign. For that to happen, the Democrats would have to unite behind him early and the potenially divisive splinter elements (Al Sharpton, the extreme environmentalists, etc.) would either have to be purged or given some long-term concessions.