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Ysh and I mentioned age discrimination in the "women's issues" thread, and this led me to start a new thread.

As I stated in that thread, I think age discrimination and stereotypes are more frequent, and unfortunately also more accepted where I live. What is the situation where you live? Have you yourself encountered age discrimination of any kind? People not listening to your opinions because you are too young? People thinking you are ridiculous or abnormal for playing computer games although you are over 40?
(I don't refer to right to vote or drive etc here.) Is there sort of an "agenda" that people are supposed to fulfil chronologically? I certainly think there is.

And what about "profession" discrimination and stereotypes? I remember one of the first threads I read here at GB was about professors who played BG2 - something they hardly wanted their colleagues to know about!

I can't say I haven't, but I'm sure as time passes, that I will.

For what it's worth, I recommend Georges Minois' History of Old Age (Chicago Press)for an exploration in detail of the treatment of the elderly and stereotypes of old age through a variety of European cultures, until the 17th century. I'll get out my copy and post from it, if anyone's interested in some of the more personal observations from the past.

i have always experienced it. now it seems weird to people when i refuse to tell my age now that i am older, btu i have always been discriminated against.
especially with women. i'd be havign a great time with a girl, we have a greta conversation, great physical chemitsry, but as soon as she would find out how much younger i was than her, i was immediately dismissed without a second look.
it's even worse in my field of work...in 5 years 98% of all senior executives in my field will be eligible for retirement. so, i am just the young whipper snapper punk who doesn't know anything.
i had an older peer tell me and some others that are my age that we won't be executives in the next few years because we don't have her experience.
i wanted so bad to rip into her to remind her that it has taken her an extra 15 years to get where i am now. but i let it be, b/c i think she just needed to say it to keep her sanity about what a dead end her life has been.

Originally posted by nael
i have always experienced it. now it seems weird to people when i refuse to tell my age now that i am older, btu i have always been discriminated against.
especially with women. i'd be havign a great time with a girl, we have a greta conversation, great physical chemitsry, but as soon as she would find out how much younger i was than her, i was immediately dismissed without a second look.
it's even worse in my field of work...in 5 years 98% of all senior executives in my field will be eligible for retirement. so, i am just the young whipper snapper punk who doesn't know anything.
i had an older peer tell me and some others that are my age that we won't be executives in the next few years because we don't have her experience.
i wanted so bad to rip into her to remind her that it has taken her an extra 15 years to get where i am now. but i let it be, b/c i think she just needed to say it to keep her sanity about what a dead end her life has been.

Hey!!! Respect your elders!!! Or Fable may chase you around with his Snapping Dentures...

But seriously folks...I have to admit that I only dated younger men a few times. One guy was 10 years younger (though he was a dead ringer for Mel Gibson ) and it made me very uncomfortable. I guess I felt like I had too much of an advantage over him.

Since my business is getting jobs for people, I do see some discrimination. It's hard as anything to get someone in their 50's hired. They want people who are going to stay a while. Also, some groups feel that it would mess up the pecking order of the group to have a new hire be older than the junior members of the group.

As far as games go, I recently had an experience where I told a friend who is about 10 years older than me that I liked to play computer games. He looked at me in total disbelief, as though I'd told him my favourite hobby is picking my nose. I could not convince him that pc games had any worth at all. Part of that though is that I think some people become more rigid as they age.

Originally posted by C Elegans
Have you yourself encountered age discrimination of any kind? People not listening to your opinions because you are too young?

IIRC, I've mentioned before the problems I have with age discrimination. Generally, the only subject anyone will admit that I know anything about is animé. If I try to participate in an intelligent conversation with anyone older than me, I tend to get ignored; and most the time, if I don't get ignored, I get fussed at for trying to be a know-it-all or some such.

There's also discrimination based on how old you look, since most people you meet don't know how old you actually are. An example of age-appearance discrimination I've experienced is at Wal-Mart. I was buying Akira on DVD the other day at Wal-Mart. The check-out person was reluctant to sell it to me because I look more like a 12- to 13-year-old than an 18-year-old, and you have to be at least 17 to purchase the movie. Luckily my dad was there, which actually made my age irrelevant. If he hadn't have been there, I'd probably have had to make a scene in order to get it.

Thought you all might enjoy this quote:
"The old believe everything, the middle-aged suspect everything, the young know everything."
-- Oscar Wilde

Originally posted by VoodooDali

"There are two major products that come out of Berkeley: LSD and UNIX. We don't believe this to be a coincidence."
-- Jeremy S. Anderson

...and he was missinformed in both cases; Unix came out of AT&T labs and LSD from sone Swiss fellow. Berkeley undoubtedly did some strange stuff with both, however

Originally posted by VoodooDali

Thought you all might enjoy this quote:
"The old believe everything, the middle-aged suspect everything, the young know everything."
-- Oscar Wilde

I disagree. Have you ever tried to convince an old person that they're wrong? It's true though that when I was young, I _did_ know everything - education screwed that up...

Well, being a youngin myself, I can say I've experienced 2 things that effect how people see you.
Clothes, and attitude.
If I'm out at the plays downtown dressed in the alternative style clothing (long sleeve shirts with thumb holes, old dress pants, smoking jackets) people actually go out of their way to AVOID us. The biggest bunch of anarchistic pacifists around.
However, when I'm decked out in my outdoors gear when I'm cruising down the streets on some Outdoor school assignment, I'm wearing a $300 jacket, $200 dollar pants etc, and I don't get a second look, except maybe that I'm carrying a 70L pack with me.

Also, I'm by nature, pleasent to people who ask me a question. This does not mean however that I'm above horsing around and drawing the Anarchy (A) on cars that have snow or dirt on them. This makes people look at me strangely. However, if I'm just walking, or talking to my friends, nothing comes of it.

At job applications, I believe that young people have a better shot than someone older. I mean, who would you hire as a lifeguard, a 16 yr old with all their credentials, or a 50 yr old with the same training?

I think AGE is not the number one cause of discrimination...
the central thought always seems to be along the lines of "I'm better than you, therefore you have no right to be right."

It happens all the time in all possible settings - the older about the younger, men about women, white about coloured - and vice versa of course....

I've long ago learned to keep my mind open in all possible directions - this way I don't miss all the fun that life throws at you .

For example:

The best computergamer I know is my neighbour next door (Strategy Games like "Total Annihilation" and so on...)
- He's 65.
- If I had a problem with "old" people gaming I wouldn't have had the most hilarious online games EVER....

My wife is 7 years older than me.
-If we had adhered to the age-old setting of "older man, younger woman" we wouldn't have 2 cute little girls and a great relationship.

One of my best friends is barely 19 .
-If I thought that I was so much wiser because I'm older - we wouldn't have had some of the most entertaining billiard ganmes in my life. (not to mention all the booze.. )


The only case of discrimination I've run into was directed at me:
The "Catholic Church Wifes" (some kind of social club for elderly women) of our town were more than enraged at me for "going out with" my later wife - she was widowed at the age of 30 by an car accident, and we didn't wait for a WHOLE YEAR OF MOURNING to go by ! (Scandalous ! )

- I just told them to go and worship someone and leave me alone or contact my lawyer and talk to him if they wanted to sue me for being in love. (I know - that was EEEEEVIL. )

What I'm trying to say is - It's only discrimination if you LET yourself be discriminated. Just be yourself as good as you can - and a BIG **** *** to all those narrowminded, self-righteous people out there. You have the same right to be here (as in "in this world") as they have...

No worries,

Beldin


PS: In case anybody's interested - I'm 31.

These are tough questions !

What is the situation where you live? Have you yourself encountered age discrimination of any kind?

As the matter of fact, the answer is yes. Recently one of company which is my customer give a mass retirement for security staffs which age around 50s. Some of them are still capable handling their task though. The reason they said is to give more caderisation chance to younger ones especially on certain levels in this case : Head of Security Section & Security Spvs

People not listening to your opinions because you are too young?

In most Asian countries, aged person are considered wiser. But the truth is some of them are narrow minded while younger gens got more break-thru visions.
Luckily in my case, some older people I know some times ask my opinion in certain things

People thinking you are ridiculous or abnormal for playing computer games although you are over 40?

Put it this way, I'm now 30 and I played Emulators (mainly NES & Genesis) & PC Games (Real time strategy like C&C, RA, Tycoon series & ADND Games) My parents often critisize this "bad habit" of mine. They think I should go out more often and get a steady GF. Seems like they want a grandchild real bad
But as the matter of fact, the games I played are making my mind sharper especially on making decissions and manpower deployment. The ADND Games also have phylosopical message on them - there's lots of them if you see thru the games more carefully than playing it just to see the ending. Take example of BG series

Is there sort of an "agenda" that people are supposed to fulfil chronologically?

According to older generations :
1. Finish your school
2. Get a steady job
3. Get a steady GF
4. Build a family
5. Give them (the parents - in this case yours) grandchildren

And what about "profession" discrimination and stereotypes?

For what ? Playing games or being old ? If you mean playing games, then what's Microsoft thinking when they bundled Solitaire & Minesweeper on their OS software ? The purpose of the game if to relieve the stress, especially for the ones who got strict job time table and high responsibilty positions. What would this world become if there's no games ? FYI people who played games some times are more mature than those serious type (non-gamers). And most of the time are more creative than those uptight non-gamer type
<EDIT> The main thing to keep in mind is how to manage your time, don't let gaming consume most of your time. It's you who control the game, not the game controlling your life !

Originally posted by C Elegans
you are ridiculous or abnormal for playing computer games although you are over 40?

Why did you pick age 40? Do you have someone specific in mind? Are you picking on me?

I think this question always gets me a little frustrated. I will post some examples of ageist acitivities...

Sitting in a First Class cabin on a trip to school the conductor came around to the cabin I was sitting in. He merely said to me "Get out! You don't have a ticket." I of course, did, as I wouldn't sit in there otherwise. I said "Pardon" to him and he said "You heard what I said! Get out!" I merely got out my ticket, gave it to him and he then said "Who did you steal this off?"

I was in massive disbelief at this point. This guy had a pipe in his mouth (in a non-smoking section) and he looked around 40-45 years old. It's needless to say that I claimed agism and got free tickets for the next week due to rude and abusive manners.

Regrettably, the older people in our society seem to think that all of us are out to get them or to cause a nusicance. Yet I often find that they are the ones causing problems because they are never wrong. It really does annoy me when this happens.

What is the situation where you live? Have you yourself encountered age discrimination of any kind?

Lots of it!
I tried five times to get a job at some medical company as a -well, I don't know what the name in english is, but I'm talking about those guys who work for Labs and visit doctors-. It started when I came out of College. I was 22. And they denied me the job because I was too young. I kept trying until I was 24, but still I was to young. Finally I got tired and send them all to the abyss. I worked for a year selling cars, and finally became a freelancer.
What is weird about this situation is that I knew that some guys who were applicating for those same jobs got rejected because they were "pretty old". (Those guys were 30 or so).

"I'm better than you, therefore you have no right to be right."

My ex-gf thinks that way. She's 9 years older than me.

People thinking you are ridiculous or abnormal for playing computer games although you are over 40?

(yeah I'm sure you are all bored of hearing of her, but...) My ex-gf was constantly bashing me for playing computer games. "Won't you ever grow up?" she said some day.

According to older generations:
1. Finish your school
2. Get a steady job
3. Get a steady GF
4. Build a family
5. Give them (the parents - in this case yours) grandchildren

Sure! My parents and most of my older friends are constantly harassing me with: "When in h*ll are you going to get your degree?"
But I don't care about that degree anymore. I'm not working as a vet anymore, is there a way they can leave me alone and let me live my life the way I wanna live it?

But as the matter of fact, the games I played are making my mind sharper especially on making decissions and manpower deployment. The ADND Games also have phylosopical message on them - there's lots of them if you see thru the games more carefully than playing it just to see the ending. Take example of BG series

Kudos to that. I couldn't agree more.

"Nobody is too young to die, and nobody is too old to live"
-Myself

you are ridiculous or abnormal for playing computer games although you are over 40?

It not only involves computer games, I know people who bashes fantasy books because "they are intended for children, we adults tend to be more real and those histories doesn't have an inch of reality".

Originally posted by Nippy
I think this question always gets me a little frustrated. I will post some examples of ageist acitivities...

Sitting in a First Class cabin on a trip to school the conductor came around to the cabin I was sitting in. He merely said to me "Get out! You don't have a ticket." I of course, did, as I wouldn't sit in there otherwise. I said "Pardon" to him and he said "You heard what I said! Get out!" I merely got out my ticket, gave it to him and he then said "Who did you steal this off?"

Was this typical, in your experience? And if so, could it be a reflection of simply age, or age, attire, etc? For many people, regardless of age, clothes, body piercings, haircut, etc, can make a big difference in terms how they're treated.

What annoys me, and always done so, is the way elderly people are talked to *gently,* and with great, big smiles, as if a somewhat infirm person over 70 (or whatever) was in the last stages of senility. That stinks, IMO. Neither pre-teens nor the aged are idiots, and neither group should be treated as though they are.

Originally posted by fable


Was this typical, in your experience? And if so, could it be a reflection of simply age, or age, attire, etc? For many people, regardless of age, clothes, body piercings, haircut, etc, can make a big difference in terms how they're treated.

What annoys me, and always done so, is the way elderly people are talked to *gently,* and with great, big smiles, as if a somewhat infirm person over 70 (or whatever) was in the last stages of senility. That stinks, IMO. Neither pre-teens nor the aged are idiots, and neither group should be treated as though they are.

I couldn't agree more Fable.

I was actually in my school suit, I don't have long hair and I don't look like a kid, it was merely my suit that branded me. My casual clothes, jeans and so on, would have recieved the same result.

It is a typical experience because other people of the same age as me recieve the same treatment.

Originally posted by Nippy


I couldn't agree more Fable.

I was actually in my school suit, I don't have long hair and I don't look like a kid, it was merely my suit that branded me. My casual clothes, jeans and so on, would have recieved the same result.

It is a typical experience because other people of the same age as me recieve the same treatment.

I wonder if you would have gotten some satisfaction if you'd reported the conductor. Or thrown around hints of a suit for age discrimination, and suggested that your father was an attorney who could, and would, do it. Probably too much of a response, given the situation. Simply throwing a drink at the back of the guy's head would have been sufficient.

Originally posted by fable


I wonder if you would have gotten some satisfaction if you'd reported the conductor. Or thrown around hints of a suit for age discrimination, and suggested that your father was an attorney who could, and would, do it. Probably too much of a response, given the situation. Simply throwing a drink at the back of the guy's head would have been sufficient.

Regrettably, I got no satisfaction reporting the gentleman. I don't like to 'grass' people up but I was paying for a service, I don't appreciate the fact that some people consider that you are hooligans just because of your age situation.

The one thing I will say in his defence is that some kids who go to my school do abuse the system and sit there without tickets.

I've been wracking my brain for examples of age discrimination in my life, and I haven't really come up with much. When I was younger, I was by no means an expert in my field, and I was treated as such. Now that I am older, I really do have a bit of experience, and some of the younger people in our company come to me for advice or proof their reports, just as I go to them if I need help with the things they have had experience in. Really, environmental consultants are like that: we are a bunch of scientists with various specialties. So, we seek out help on the problems from the person who can help us, regardless of age. It so happens that one of my specialties is derived from experience (read: age) where I have encountered a variety of archaeological problems and understand many of the possible options for solving them.

We do have a biologist in the office who serves a sort of 'professor emeritus' role by virtue of his age and outstanding expertise. If you ever need to know anything about animals and bugs, he's the guy to go to. Now, I do treat him a little differently from others by offering a more respectful tone when I talk to him, but I prefer to view this as sensitivity to his generational sensitivities (so to speak) rather than age discrimination. e.g. I don't jokingly call him "bubble butt" like I do some of my peers.

by Nippy
The one thing I will say in his defense is that some kids who go to my school do abuse the system and sit there without tickets.

Sure, the conductor may have found that 9 times out of 10, any 16-year-old sitting in first class snuck in there. He may feel that to do his job, he needs to confront all 16-year-olds in first class. But where do you draw the line? When does it become a form of profiling? In your case, he overstepped his bounds clearly when he was abusive to you. He could have simply said, "May I see your ticket please" then when he found you to be there legitimately, he could have said, "Thank you. Have a nice day." But he didn't choose that option
.