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Hi, i want to play with my friends campaign, and i cant decide between FB and SL.
So i figure out, i would just ask since i cant find any decend build with these two.

Thing is, i dont realy looking for a power-gaming.More much of a Role-play.I always loved the norse mythology and idea of character with famous berserking power and storm blessed by the gods themself.So i dont want mix too many characters in.Just 10 levels of FB and 10 of SL.As a weapon i thing i will be forced to have a spear and maybe a back-up throwing axes (But have build just about throwing would be great).

So, what should be my race, start class (bridge betweeen those two, guess the druid?) feats and so on.Or just point me to some nice build that i could modified to my liking.

Thanks a lot!

This is one of my strongest builds - it is a "buff" machine though for best effect:

http://nwn2db.com/build/?35222

I've tooled-around with a throwing axe build before. Actually it's overall a bad idea. All the campaigns tend to have "mobs" of opponents that are far more easily taken care of with melee. On top of that the FB class really doesn't do much of anything for a ranged attacker (with throwing axes).

BTW, which campaigns do you have (OC, MOTB, and SOZ). It makes a difference.

We will start at beggining trough all 3 of them.And im planing to stick with one character all 3 stories.
Right now i have rolled this http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Dread_Necrom ... PM%2810%29 , but i dont know if it will be fun

Zarkhes wrote:We will start at beggining trough all 3 of them.And im planing to stick with one character all 3 stories.
Right now i have rolled this [url='http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Dread_Necromancer_-_Wiz%2810%29,_RWT%2810%29,_PM%2810%29']http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Dread_Necromancer_-_Wiz(10),_RWT(10),_PM(10)[/url] , but i dont know if it will be fun

So you have all campaigns.. Good.

Note: The OC/Original Campaign (starts at level 1 goes up to character level 20) continues the story onto MOTB (up to level 30). SOZ is completely different (..it's a multi-party campaign) starts at level 1-4 and generally "tops out" at around level 17 depending on how many characters you use.

In this context then we are only "crafting" a character for OC and MOTB (..NOT SOZ).

A Wizard is the most difficult class to play in the OC and MOTB. I'd recommend avoiding that build unless you have played the campaigns before.

I probably wouldn't recommend my "Hoar's Pike" build either for a first gaming experience due to the lack of Diplomacy in the OC.


Getting back to your original idea: Do you want more of a Shaman build or more of a Berserker build?

Most of the time when looking for a "blessed by the Gods" sort of build - it's a Divine Might/Divine Favor build often with enhancements to Saves - rather like a Paladin. The problem there is that a Paladin is Lawful, and an FB cannot be Lawful. There are three solutions to this:
1. an Evil character with Blackguard levels, or
2. utilizing two levels of Cleric (one for Divine Might and one for Divine Shield), or
3. Paladin levels and then performing Chaotic actions with a late change to FB once you hit Neutral Good.

When someone is more interested in a "blessed by the Gods" with spells and melee - then you look to the Favored Soul. (..Druids and Spirit Shaman derive their "blessings" from Nature, not Gods.) A Favored Soul would allow you to leverage the Stormlord class like I've done for Hoar's Pike.. and it could easily be Talos instead as your deity. You would need to make some changes however - primarily dealing with skills and particularly Diplomacy.

Definitely more of a berserker build.If possible, leave the paladin out.I have enough buffing when i played IWD2 as a cleric (my team hated me for it.Before each battle buffing like 6 spells )
I would like to play as a strong mele build (berserker) with thunder offensive spells (lightning got best visuals imho) as a stormlord.

So maybe start as a barbarian (cleave and such feat) then a few levels of shaman (maybe like 5/5) and then straight to FB and SL.

Possible?

Edit : im playing with a stats atm.So, SL needs a Able to cast 3rd-level [url='http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Divine']divine[/url] spellsThat means he need at least 13 wisdom...so i dont need Spirit shaman at all, no?Why would i want to add another class?I hope that stormlord got any actual storm spells like chainlightnig etc, no?

Zarkhes wrote:Definitely more of a berserker build.If possible, leave the paladin out.I have enough buffing when i played IWD2 as a cleric (my team hated me for it.Before each battle buffing like 6 spells )
I would like to play as a strong mele build (berserker) with thunder offensive spells (lightning got best visuals imho) as a stormlord.

So maybe start as a barbarian (cleave and such feat) then a few levels of shaman (maybe like 5/5) and then straight to FB and SL.

Possible?

Possible.. but it's splitting your interests. In other words melee won't be as good as a pure melee build, not by a long shot. It's not an issue of damage either - more of pure attack numbers from a lot of medium BAB class levels, focusing on Wisdom instead of Strength, and missing out on some more melee feats in favor of obtaining class prerequisites for the SL class and also at least one or two good spell-casting feats. In other words, the emphasis will be on spell-casting, and less on melee.

Note: Paladin is a bit of a misnomer - its buffing only relates to Divine Shield and Divine Might, and not always both either. (..we aren't talking about a spell casting class in NWN2 for the most part.) Even the FB class has it's "buff": Frenzy, but again - that's only if you want to use it. So that's at most 3 rounds of buffs, and more likely only 1 to 2 rounds depending on what you want to do for that fight (..and how much modified Charisma you have at that point in the game).

..at any rate,

The two spells you'll like are Call Lightening and Call Lightening Storm (from the 3rd and 5th level Druid/SS spell grouping). They are centered on the Caster, so it's more of a spell suited to a melee "build" where enemies are surrounding your character. 8th level Storm Avatar is THE melee buff, and it's best using the meta-magic feat *extend* as a 9th level spell.

Would you consider installing Kaedrins? Among other things, it fixes the Spirit Shaman's DC to Wisdom instead of Charisma (..which makes an SS build a LOT more feasible). It also adds-in a lot of nice extra spells which you can select from, and a LOT of prestige classes you probably won't need.

http://nwn2customcontent.wikidot.com/nwvault

Zarkhes wrote:
Edit : im playing with a stats atm.So, SL needs a Able to cast 3rd-level [url='http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Divine']divine[/url] spellsThat means he need at least 13 wisdom...so i dont need Spirit shaman at all, no?Why would i want to add another class?I hope that stormlord got any actual storm spells like chainlightnig etc, no?

SL is a CONTINUATION class. It continues on with your spells from your prior class (which would be SS or Druid in this case.. or FS or Cleric).

You would need a Wisdom for whatever spell level you are seeking with the combined classes.

SS 6 levels to SL 10 levels, gives you 16 class levels of the SS spell book. Or in other words up to level 8 spells. Really though, you should push it up as high as possible (i.e. 20 levels - which would require going back to the SS class for 4 more levels or another SS continuation class). Level 9 spells means a minimum of 19 in Wisdom.

Not sure you can take more than three classes per character - and I am pretty sure if you did, you would lack enough specialization and be effectively useless in MotB - a lot of enemies in Mask of the Betrayer have a high spell resistance and resistance to critical hits.

You need to ensure you build to the pre-requisites to the prestige class and most require perks or attack bonus ratings that cannot be obtained before level 8-13. You can become a frenzied berserker without any classes in fighter or barbarian, but for a druid, cleric, FS or SS it takes a while to build a base attack to +6 and taking the pre-requisite perks will mean perks you cannot take for SL. Favored Soul might be the best base class for the build as it will give you a free weapon focus perk at level 3 - as a weapon focus in spear or throwing weapon is required for SL.

It is best not to become too distracted by prestige classes - taking more than one normally results in not gaining the full potential of either. A Druid/Barbarian build can be very rewarding and I personally think if you take Barbarian - you don't really need Frenzied Berserker as it doesn't bring much more to the table - the druid buffs will be equivalent if not better and can be used to absorb the AC penalty for using rage. Ranger (dual-wield) and Fighter gain much more from the Frenzied Berserker class. This would then keep the way open for Storm Lord. If you go the spear route, monkey grip can be useful as this allows for the use of a spear and a shield - which as well as allowing for additional AC and bonus feats - looks cool.

Oh, i forgot about that Darth...Well, how do i get cleave for FB and divine spells for SL?
What do you think about this stats?
Strength
16 +3
Dexterity
14 +2
Constitution
16 +3
Intelligence
8 -1
Wisdom
14 +2
Charisma
8
With wisdom i will increase as i gain levels

Ok ok, lets make it simple!I will make a 10 Druid/10 FB/10 SL.I have discovered i can take power atack, cleave and greater cleave as a druid, co its cool!

You can have up to 4 classes, but with base classes you always need to be careful with experience point penalties from "multi-classing".

FB is the best prestige class for melee. It's NOT about Frenzy, but rather about 2 feats: Supreme Cleave and Enhanced Power Attack (..and to a much less extent Supreme Power Attack).

Enhanced Power Attack however requires the use of a 2-handed weapon used as a 2-handed weapon with either Improved Power Attack or just basic Power Attack. With Improved Power Attack it adds +20 damage to your weapon, but at a -6 to your attack. With just standard Power Attack it adds +10 damage to your weapon, but with a -3 to your attack.


Note, I've specifically made builds with just 2 levels of FB for Supreme Power Attack - it's that good. Hoar's Pike is just one example. Assuming you have enough damage with your weapon, having that extra attack per cleave often allows you to kill everything near you IN ONE ROUND. Basically hit, hit: kill; hit, hit: kill; hit, hit: kill -etc.. The combo of Enhanced Power Attack + Improved Power Attack for that +20 damage really fits well with this, particularly if it's a high strength build with resulting high attack numbers. With a build like that you don't need Call Lightening Storm, but you do need high attack numbers and high damage (per hit).

Scottg wrote:You can have up to 4 classes, but with base classes you always need to be careful with experience point penalties from "multi-classing".

FB is the best prestige class for melee. It's NOT about Frenzy, but rather about 2 feats: Supreme Cleave and Enhanced Power Attack (..and to a much less extent Supreme Power Attack).

Enhanced Power Attack however requires the use of a 2-handed weapon used as a 2-handed weapon with either Improved Power Attack or just basic Power Attack. With Improved Power Attack it adds +20 damage to your weapon, but at a -6 to your attack. With just standard Power Attack it adds +10 damage to your weapon, but with a -3 to your attack.


Note, I specifically made builds with just 2 levels of FB for Supreme Power Attack - it's that good. Hoar's Pike is just one example. Assuming you have enough damage with your weapon, having that extra attack per cleave often allows you to kill everything near you IN ONE ROUND. Basically hit, hit: kill; hit, hit: kill; hit, hit: kill -etc.. The combo of Enhanced Power Attack + Improved Power Attack for that +20 damage really fits well with this, particularly if it's a high strength build with resulting high attack numbers. With a build like that you don't need Call Lightening Storm.

I know, but i dont realy play this game just to pwn everything in my path.Thats why i want the druid and storm spells in my build.To add the feeling and looks.So...4 classses.I have made mistake, i cant take a greater cleave as a druid, you must have Barbarian+4 for it.So that brings me again to barbarian(5)/Druid(5) ((just for the 5th spell))/FB(10)/SL(10)...This is getting over my head

Zarkhes wrote:I know, but i dont realy play this game just to pwn everything in my path.Thats why i want the druid and storm spells in my build.To add the feeling and looks.So...4 classses.I have made mistake, i cant take a greater cleave as a druid, you must have Barbarian+4 for it.So that brings me again to barbarian(5)/Druid(5) ((just for the 5th spell))/FB(10)/SL(10)...This is getting over my head

That's because you want to much.

Forget about Barbarian.. what you need desperately are additional FEATS. That automatically means FIGHTER (4 levels nets you 3 added fighter-based bonus feats).

HUMAN (exta feat no multi-class penalty): Druid 11, Fighter 4, FB 5, SL 10

Probably Druid 5, Fighter 4, FB 2, SL 10, FB 3, Druid 6.. or something like that depending on what you want and when.

Best to use the nwn2 builder site to see how it looks and builds.

Something like this:
http://nwn2db.com/build/?143803

Thx i will play with it a bit.
Bzw, no Luck of heroes or any og the only 1st level feats?

Zarkhes wrote:Thx i will play with it a bit.
Bzw, no Luck of heroes or any og the only 1st level feats?

No Luck of Heroes.. It's a nice feat, but it's not that good (+1 AC, +1 Saves). Extended Spell will serve you a lot better over the course of the build.

I moved around the feats for earlier access to Elephant's Hide. That way you'll have your +7 AC bonus for 10 minutes several levels earlier.

I also moved around Empower Spell vs. Practiced Spell Caster Druid. The reason here is that most spells you would want to empower are at higher levels (particularly Call Lightening Storm - which when empowered would be at level 7). Whereas the Practiced Spell Caster Druid will add power and duration to spells "instantly".

Provided you use a Wisdom modifier Necklace, you'll have access to 7th level spells at the correct time, and 8th level spells at character level 20. That gives you access to Body of the Sun as a Persistent effect - so I moved Persistent Spell down to character level 18.



As mentioned in the comments section - Oaken Resilience is a very nice feat to have, and Storm Avatar is provided via 8th level spells from the Druid.

A few things to note though.

SL's Extended Storm Avatar lasts longer at an earlier level - and specifically for the OC final battle, and won't take up an 8th level spell slot (..where you might want something else, particularly Body of the Sun persisted).

Even if you make the changes for Oaken Resilience, you won't have access to Oaken Resilience until almost the end of the game (if then - because there is no guarantee you'll get to level 28), and you should have gotten access via equipment or spells from companions that perform the same functions.

Additionally, the character's AB actually came out pretty good for what is essentially a medium BAB class. I'd forgotten about the attack bonuses with SL's spear.

Note: with a +8 Strength belt and spear (available at the start of MOTB) with +6 enhancement - Improved Power Attack will work just fine on most of the opponents in MOTB. Note that it won't work on the really tough opponents (unless you roll a 20) - but it's not really designed for that (rather it's designed to take out mobs quickly with Supreme Cleave).


All things considered, it's actually a better build then I was expecting.

It's still not what I would call a Berserker-build though, but I think it's about as close as you can get to what you are asking for.

Another option might be just going Full FB at Epic levels and forgetting about Wisdom enhancements - instead going with Strength. But ultimately it won't be quite as powerful overall (..you'll never have access to 9th level spells and you won't have as many spells to cast per day for 7th and 8th level spells), but perhaps it will be more of a Berserker at those higher levels. Up to you.

I tested out the FB at higher levels and the class high BAB only added 1 to attack numbers, where the +4 to Strength added the other +1 to attack. (..loss of epic prowess takes away one). So the net attack number increase over the original design is +2. IMO that's not worth the loss in Spells.

I then tested it out with Fighter levels.. there the difference is substantial (net +6), and worth it if you want more of a melee character at higher levels (..which is not a bad idea in MOTB):

http://nwn2db.com/build/?143857

I've also updated the original version to include skills.

Here is Rykard's alteration:

http://nwn2db.com/build/?143864

I've got some comments as you scroll down from his build.

The way he has it loaded at the start it is a bit more "melee-centric". On the other hand it looses out on Elephant's Hide early-on, which I *know* is a very big deal. It also delays several buffs that are very nice - particularly Flame Weapon *extended*. (..yes, I actually tested the difference in Vordan's Hero Creator - my way is at the very least MUCH safer if used properly.)

He also doesn't have Empower Spell, which will remove your Empowered Call Lightenings, BUT as mentioned in the comments section - you can safely remove Blind Fight and return Empower Spell.

Also as mentioned, what I like best about it is the addition of 2 more levels of Druid at the end of the build which nets you one 9th level spell, and a few more spells at 7th and 8th. (..it also "opens-up" some class skills.) The "cost" is only -1 to attack. Of course it's unknown if you'll get that far in level in MOTB, but personally I think it's worth it.

Looking over Rykard's starter formation, I realized it was best suited to a Cleric build..

Now a Cleric build is usually a "buffer" - and this one is as well, BUT at higher levels those buffs are long duration or persistent with one exception: Divine Power - which is spec'ed as *extended*. So at higher levels the start of a battle would really only require that one buff. (..all the other buffs are cast when starting a new "map".) Most of the time however, its not needed. When you want it - it's there (..and it makes a rather large difference).

Through the Air Domain and the Empower Meta-magic feat we get something similar to a Druid build. The major spells are listed for their respective levels in the Notes section of the build:

http://nwn2db.com/build/?143895

It's a better build IMO, but it does have that one "buff". It's also not as *easy* as either of my Druid-based builds at lower levels (assuming the Druid build is played well). But it's stronger than either at higher levels with its "buffs".

This is great build Scottg!Thank you for your great work!

Btw, its just a silly detail...could i use bear instead of a boar?You know, since berserkers worn the pelt of a bears into a battle

Zarkhes wrote:This is great build Scottg!Thank you for your great work!

Btw, its just a silly detail...could i use bear instead of a boar?You know, since berserkers worn the pelt of a bears into a battle

Yup, anything you like.. (..I tend to like the Boar's mix of attributes the best of the standard animal companions - better AC and hitpoints than the Bear, and only slightly inferior attack numbers - basically meaning that the Boar will "last" longer in a typical battle.).

You can see them here:

http://nwn2.wikia.com/wiki/Druid

(Note: what's show is their *max* potential based on a level 20 Druid, but it still gives you an idea of how they "scale" at low levels.)

-with animal companions though your's won't be of much use (with the total build-life) - they only scale in level with their class (Druid in this case). So very useful at lower levels, not much use later (probably "topping-out" in use by level 13 for yours), still though - kind of nice to have a pet following you around even if their not that useful at higher levels.

Basically with a low level Druid it's all about putting enemies to sleep and then having your companion go and kill them in their sleep. (..often with the help of a summon as well.)

Note: Sleep in conjunction with a full leveling animal companion for 5 levels to start is extremely powerful. (..in fact at lower levels the Druid is the most powerful class their is.) Then add-in Elephant's Hide for melee (plus plate armor) at character level 6 and this will be one of the easiest builds in existence at those lower levels.

The other technique with a Druid is Entangle + Ranged Attacks.. (but that requires a more complete build.)