Where to find ref_id in GECK?

[Belthan]

base_id for an NPC is the "Form ID" column in GECK. Can you find the ref_id in the GECK? I'm kinda tired of Googling ref_ids.

EDIT - found this answer in another forum, in case anybody here curious:

Find the npc on the list, right click -> use info to find the reference in the world, It should be now highlighted in the cell view window. the ref id is there.