Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 2:44 pm
[QUOTE=fable](I once heard Herbert give a live lecture chortling over the way he carefully measured and applied geological instruments to formulating new planets for his fiction, and couldn't help wondering, "Who the hell cared?")[/QUOTE]
(raises hand shyly) Uh, I did.
I read all of the appendices to Dune, and in my naivete, I even looked for copies of the books he "quoted" from in the hope that he had actually written them.
Even so, my own preconceptions lead me not to believe that a woman would have provided as much background documentation for a novel as Frank Herbert did. However, please don't get me wrong. I don't attribute that sort of difference between men and women to anything innate in their makeup; rather, I attribute that sort of difference to people's tendency to conform to expectations.
Whenever people try to write fiction, I think they try to write the way they think they're "supposed" to write, and they try to make their stories sound "the way they're supposed to". As a result, female writers end up writing "female fiction", and male writers end up writing "male fiction", based on the "templates" they are using.
Personally, I happen to mimic a lot of the things I read (although I try to keep it to minimum on here, partly to preserve my own style of posting here, and also out of respect for the individuality of others). Sometimes after I've read a particular author, I have a tendency to imitate them the next time I write something. Perhaps the reason why the particular style of writing I use here is so "forceful and direct" is because I'm imitating the male textbook authors who influenced my writing style in college. (Although I happen to think it's more of a "textbook" style than a "male" style.)
As for whether or not someone cares about Frank Herbert's attempts to substantiate the new worlds that he created, I suspect that's merely a matter of personal taste.
On a related note, I have gotten a tremendous amount of enjoyment out of reading The Harry Potter books by J. K. Rowling. I think she writes with a feminine style and sensitivity that could not be duplicated exactly by a man. She also has a truly unique vision of her own work, and no one could tell the story of Harry Potter and his friends as well as she can. But I have to admit that I find her work frustrating at times because of, shall we say, technical problems. For example, there's no way that her days and dates could be correct if she's using a standard earthly calendar. If she wanted to use accurate dates and days of the week, it wouldn't have been difficult to look them up, but she admits that didn't want to be concerned about things like that. She also can't seem to make up her mind about things such as how many students there are at Hogwarts and how old the various characters are--she's very inconsistent. I'm sure that a lot of her readers say, "Who cares?" Well, I do.
The size of the facilities at Hogwarts (which would be determined by the approximate number of students) and the size of Harry's peer group seem very important to me because they shape Harry's life at Hogwarts. But J. K. Rowling apparently doesn't see things that way.
I wish that J. K. Rowling would create appendices for her work, but she likes to keep her secrets to herself (like a woman, in my opinion), and she leaves it to, in her own words, her "clever" readers to create their own Harry Potter repositories of knowledge and speculation. She gets a big kick out of it. If she were a man, I suspect she would take offense at some of the errors and misunderstandings and jump in to make a bunch of corrections (like a man, in my opinion).
I don't think there's much basis for comparison between J. K. Rowling, Douglas Adams, and Frank Herbert, since they have written novels in completely different genres, but I'll make such a comparison, anyway.
If Douglas Adams had written the Harry Potter novels, the dates would have been accurate and some of the humor would have remained the same, but most of the action would not take place at Hogwarts, and the central focus would not remain on Harry Potter due to Adams's love for digression, distraction, and irony. If Frank Herbert had written the Harry Potter books, everything would have been "scientifically" correct (especially the magic--he would have created a rational scheme to explain how it works), and the books would have been stuffed with appendices, perhaps not including rosters of students, but probably including detailed descriptions of the Hogwarts curriculum (which I personally believe is in need of serious revision if the purpose of "the best school of magic in the world" is to give its students the best possible education). If J. K. Rowling had written Dune, there would have been no appendices, and Paul would have been treated more like the adolescent he was supposed to be. If she had written The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, many things might have remained the same, but the characters would have been fleshed out a whole lot more, and there would have been some sort of overarching struggle between good and evil rather than the "we'll never know the truth, anyway" sort of attitude. I'm sure that most of the differences between those particular authors stem from their individuality rather than gender differences, but perhaps their gender has helped to shape their styles and their outlooks in some way. Why wouldn't it have done so?
I have to say I'm truly perplexed by the film critics who say that the new movie version of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is weak on characterization, when in my opinion it has fleshed out the characters and explained their motivations in a way they books never did. So to me, the movie offers the best of both worlds: fleshed out characters, as well as events that bounce them back and forth between improbable places where they are completely out of their element. I suspect that Douglas Adams had help with that from his co-screenwriter.
[QUOTE=fable]If women in scientific professions were to write sf&f today, I suspect some of them might take pride in doing as Herbert did. And presumably give boring lectures about it, too.[/QUOTE]
Yes, women are just as capable as men at developing elaborate schema and giving boring lectures about them. But I have yet to see a female science fiction author write in the same style as Frank Herbert. (Please point one out to me if you know of one.)
(raises hand shyly) Uh, I did.
Even so, my own preconceptions lead me not to believe that a woman would have provided as much background documentation for a novel as Frank Herbert did. However, please don't get me wrong. I don't attribute that sort of difference between men and women to anything innate in their makeup; rather, I attribute that sort of difference to people's tendency to conform to expectations.
Whenever people try to write fiction, I think they try to write the way they think they're "supposed" to write, and they try to make their stories sound "the way they're supposed to". As a result, female writers end up writing "female fiction", and male writers end up writing "male fiction", based on the "templates" they are using.
Personally, I happen to mimic a lot of the things I read (although I try to keep it to minimum on here, partly to preserve my own style of posting here, and also out of respect for the individuality of others). Sometimes after I've read a particular author, I have a tendency to imitate them the next time I write something. Perhaps the reason why the particular style of writing I use here is so "forceful and direct" is because I'm imitating the male textbook authors who influenced my writing style in college. (Although I happen to think it's more of a "textbook" style than a "male" style.)
As for whether or not someone cares about Frank Herbert's attempts to substantiate the new worlds that he created, I suspect that's merely a matter of personal taste.
On a related note, I have gotten a tremendous amount of enjoyment out of reading The Harry Potter books by J. K. Rowling. I think she writes with a feminine style and sensitivity that could not be duplicated exactly by a man. She also has a truly unique vision of her own work, and no one could tell the story of Harry Potter and his friends as well as she can. But I have to admit that I find her work frustrating at times because of, shall we say, technical problems. For example, there's no way that her days and dates could be correct if she's using a standard earthly calendar. If she wanted to use accurate dates and days of the week, it wouldn't have been difficult to look them up, but she admits that didn't want to be concerned about things like that. She also can't seem to make up her mind about things such as how many students there are at Hogwarts and how old the various characters are--she's very inconsistent. I'm sure that a lot of her readers say, "Who cares?" Well, I do.
I wish that J. K. Rowling would create appendices for her work, but she likes to keep her secrets to herself (like a woman, in my opinion), and she leaves it to, in her own words, her "clever" readers to create their own Harry Potter repositories of knowledge and speculation. She gets a big kick out of it. If she were a man, I suspect she would take offense at some of the errors and misunderstandings and jump in to make a bunch of corrections (like a man, in my opinion).
I don't think there's much basis for comparison between J. K. Rowling, Douglas Adams, and Frank Herbert, since they have written novels in completely different genres, but I'll make such a comparison, anyway.
I have to say I'm truly perplexed by the film critics who say that the new movie version of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is weak on characterization, when in my opinion it has fleshed out the characters and explained their motivations in a way they books never did. So to me, the movie offers the best of both worlds: fleshed out characters, as well as events that bounce them back and forth between improbable places where they are completely out of their element. I suspect that Douglas Adams had help with that from his co-screenwriter.
[QUOTE=fable]If women in scientific professions were to write sf&f today, I suspect some of them might take pride in doing as Herbert did. And presumably give boring lectures about it, too.[/QUOTE]
Yes, women are just as capable as men at developing elaborate schema and giving boring lectures about them. But I have yet to see a female science fiction author write in the same style as Frank Herbert. (Please point one out to me if you know of one.)