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Luo Guanzhong, he is considered the one from Shu.

Jin (Wei) tried to rewrite history...or make it look better on their part.

For anybody interested, here is a small map.



Chengdu is the capitol of Shu (Called Shu Han) Lui Bei ruled here and was a desendant of the Han.

Xuchang plus Luoyang both were swapped back and forth as the capitol of Wei (Later called Jin) Cao Cao and his sons ruled here, till an advisor upsurped the thrown and his son became the ruler..(Jin)

Jianye the capitol of Wu the last of the orignal three to fall. Ruled by the Sun family (the father claims to have been related to the famous Sun Tzu) The father Sun Jian made the kingdom, his son Sun Ce expanded it, and the third sun Sun Quan (I believe it's the third) held on to it.

A good one, Weasel !
Too bad I've been lazy surfing for the RTK stuff Thanks for the map, and asme thing goes to BG Fan

BTW do you enjoy my gift, Weasel ?

Oh, what the heck!

Chibi is the greatest naval battlefield of the Three Kingdoms era as well as the place where Cao Cao suffered his life's greatest defeat. On the far side of the bank is Wulin, the place where Zhuge Liang sent Zhao Yun to ambush the fleeing Cao Cao and his remnant troops.

While I'm at it, here's another pic.

Black and white photo of the surroundings of Yangping Pass, the place where Zhang Lu and Cao Cao's forces were locked in a stalemate for more than 50 days. Although the defenders Zhang Wei, Yang Ren and Yang Ang managed to defeat Cao Cao's vanguard forces commanded by Xiahou Yuan and Zhang He, they lost the pass subsequently. The lost of the pass gave Cao Cao's army a clear path to the capture of Hanzhong.

@Baldursgate Fan, that was a great picture!

IIRC Cao Cao had an enormous army..300,000 to 500,000 troops and was defeated by a combined army of Shu and Wu..with their numbers being around 50,000 total.



Hanzhong, a sad place. Xiahou Yuan I liked all the Xiahou's.

@KidD01, Thanks.

Is that where the Battle of Red Wall occur ??

For those who haven't read the Novel :
Battle of Red Wall is a Naval Battle where Zuge Liang manage to trick Chao Chao so he tie whole his naval forces into one. Then Zuge order the allied Shu & Wu troops to rain flaming arrows on them. The scenery was so fiery that people refer it "a big red wall" which is a tied boats of Chao Chao forces which burn like a flaming red wall

BTW BG Fan, if you want to play some old RTK games I can PM you something "special" Let's say I'll repay your generousity for sharing good pics

@Weasel : The advisor who overthrown Chao Chao dynasty named Suma Yi

I don't think I mentioned Dragon Throne: Battle of Red Cliffs. It's a new RTS with pause-enter-commands permitted (which allows for far greater depth than traditional RTS, IMO) set in the Three Kingdoms period. YOu get to play Cao Cao, Liu Bei, or Sun Quan. One of the neatest things about the game are the quotes from the book and the dialog, all spoken by Chinese actors with English subtitles. Looks pretty impressive, though I haven't played it, yet: your warriors can learn from a bank of forty skills, which include laying traps, summoning ghosts from corpses, use spears to force enemies to dismount, etc.

Hanzhong. Sad place indeed.

Originally posted by Weasel


Hanzhong, a sad place. Xiahou Yuan I liked all the Xiahou's.

@KidD01, Thanks.

View of Jiange's treacherous terrain. With the pass at the side of the hill acting as a fort coupled with the seemingly impassable terrain, it is a defender's dream. With the loss of Hanzhong to Zhong Hui, Jiang Wei retreated to Jiange to take advantage of its natural barrier.

Look at the sheer size of the cliffs and compare it with the Pass and the car on the road below! Imagine you are at the road and looking up. I bet you will be awed by this magnificant view.

Originally posted by KidD01


@Weasel : The advisor who overthrown Chao Chao dynasty named Suma Yi

The English version calls him Sima Yi,..just like Chao Chao is called Cao Cao.

He served the Cao's for three generations before he overthrew it.

Some say he did it because the Cao who was going to rule was too weak, and he didn't want to see Wei fall. I ask though, why change the name of the kingdom to Jin then?

Which Sima's son did go on and conquer the other two, something a Cao didn't or couldn't do.

Originally posted by KidD01
Is that where the Battle of Red Wall occur ??

BTW BG Fan, if you want to play some old RTK games I can PM you something "special" Let's say I'll repay your generousity for sharing good pics

THanks! Please do!

Originally posted by Weasel


The English version calls him Sima Yi,..just like Chao Chao is called Cao Cao.

He served the Cao's for three generations before he overthrew it.

Some say he did it because the Cao who was going to rule was too weak, and he didn't want to see Wei fall. I ask though, why change the name of the kingdom to Jin then?

Which Sima's son did go on and conquer the other two, something a Cao didn't or couldn't do.

Cao Cao was dying by then, and had lost a few territories prior to that. No doubt failures at the battlefield hasted his demise.

That's the version I got from the movies.

Originally posted by fable
I don't think I mentioned Dragon Throne: Battle of Red Cliffs. It's a new RTS with pause-enter-commands permitted (which allows for far greater depth than traditional RTS, IMO) set in the Three Kingdoms period. YOu get to play Cao Cao, Liu Bei, or Sun Quan. One of the neatest things about the game are the quotes from the book and the dialog, all spoken by Chinese actors with English subtitles. Looks pretty impressive, though I haven't played it, yet: your warriors can learn from a bank of forty skills, which include laying traps, summoning ghosts from corpses, use spears to force enemies to dismount, etc.

Awww kewl ! I forgot to mention Fate of Dragon. It's a a bit new game in RTK universe. IIRC it's published by EIDOS, and IIRC it have the sequel. But Weasel and I have played the first one and found it "not desirable"

As for dismounting enemies using spears, it's true since cavalry worst enemies are infantries armed with spears (well, I forget the name of the unit )

Re: Hanzhong. Sad place indeed.

Originally posted by Baldursgate Fan


View of Jiange's treacherous terrain. With the pass at the side of the hill acting as a fort coupled with the seemingly impassable terrain, it is a defender's dream. With the loss of Hanzhong to Zhong Hui, Jiang Wei retreated to Jiange to take advantage of its natural barrier.

Look at the sheer size of the cliffs and compare it with the Pass and the car on the road below! Imagine you are at the road and looking up. I bet you will be awe by this magnificant view.

That is one of the best natural barriers I have ever saw. I now understand why Wei didn't attack from that direction.

I hope one day I can go see all of it in person.

Re: Re: Hanzhong. Sad place indeed.

Originally posted by Weasel


That is one of the best natural barriers I have ever saw. I now understand why Wei didn't attack from that direction.

I hope one day I can go see all of it in person.

Make that two of us!

Re: Re: Re: Hanzhong. Sad place indeed.

Originally posted by Baldursgate Fan


Make that two of us!

Three. I'd love to see that.

Originally posted by fable
I don't think I mentioned Dragon Throne: Battle of Red Cliffs. It's a new RTS with pause-enter-commands permitted (which allows for far greater depth than traditional RTS, IMO) set in the Three Kingdoms period. YOu get to play Cao Cao, Liu Bei, or Sun Quan. One of the neatest things about the game are the quotes from the book and the dialog, all spoken by Chinese actors with English subtitles. Looks pretty impressive, though I haven't played it, yet: your warriors can learn from a bank of forty skills, which include laying traps, summoning ghosts from corpses, use spears to force enemies to dismount, etc.

Thanks Fable.

I just hope it's better than Fate of the Dragon. To know a little history about Romance of the Three Kingdoms and then play Fate of the Dragon, you will be disappointed to find out they allowed all the Officers to be about the same.

Lu Bu: a man among men, the best dueler of his time..In Fate of the Dragon, he is just the same as Zhuge Liang..(Who is the smartest in his time)

Other than this, the game was pretty good. I liked the castle battles being on another screen a lot.

Count me in

A disturbing thing :
Liu Bei successor, which called A-Tauw is one useless ruler (from the story) - well I guess it's related with "The Brave Zhao Yun Battle" to save his master wifes. Remember after Zhao Yun handed over the baby (A-Tauw) to Liu Bei, Libei slammed the baby. That must have done something bad with A-Tauw Anyway nowadays, if a chinese unable to success his father footstep, and furthermore "loose his father empire" like A-Tauw did - other chinese (especially old gens) will call him "A-Tauw". Ironic isn't it ?

BTW My favorite chars are : Zhao Yun aka Zhao Zi Long, Zuge Liang & Guan Yu

<EDIT>Lu Bu also got the best horse, which later used by Guan Yu. BTW I forgot where did Zhao Yun get "The Luminious Sword" from

Originally posted by KidD01
Count me in

BTW My favorite chars are : Zhao Yun aka Zhao Zi Long, Zuge Liang & Guan Yu

<EDIT>Lu Bu also got the best horse, which later used by Guan Yu. BTW I forgot where did Zhao Yun get "The Luminious Sword" from

My favourite character is zhuge liang.

As for the luminous sword, Zhao Yun obtained this precious sword after slaying Xiahou En on Changban slope amid the encirclement of Cao troops while trying to locate and bring back Liu Bei's wives and his new born child Liu Chan.

Originally posted by Weasel


The first one is in English and can be found on the internet. Now the second one...I could not find in English from Capcom, but if you get any version of 2 you can then get a ROM with a patch. Some people got together and translated it and did IMHO a very good job. The other one (With Chao Chao) is not avaible in English as well and the last I heard no one planned to translate it.

This is the only one I haven't played.

Ive Got Destiny 2 in english weas...got it at that site where i found all them dragon warrior games in english...will hunt the link again lost all my favs on kind of that crap that happened.

Originally posted by KidD01
Count me in

A disturbing thing :
Liu Bei successor, which called A-Tauw is one useless ruler (from the story) - well I guess it's related with "The Brave Zhao Yun Battle" to save his master wifes. Remember after Zhao Yun handed over the baby (A-Tauw) to Liu Bei, Libei slammed the baby. That must have done something bad with A-Tauw Anyway nowadays, if a chinese unable to success his father footstep, and furthermore "loose his father empire" like A-Tauw did - other chinese (especially old gens) will call him "A-Tauw". Ironic isn't it ?

BTW My favorite chars are : Zhao Yun aka Zhao Zi Long, Zuge Liang & Guan Yu

<EDIT>Lu Bu also got the best horse, which later used by Guan Yu. BTW I forgot where did Zhao Yun get "The Luminious Sword" from

In the English version Liu Bei successor is call Liu Chan and he was useless. He let the advisors (Not Zhuge or Jiang Wei) run everything. And the plots run rampant.

Zhao Yun did rescue the child, but IIRC Cao tricked Liu and then Liu throwed the child, Something along the lines, My child could not replace the loss of Zhao Yun.

Cao Cao got the "Red Hare" horse from Lu Bu after his demise, then Cao Cao gave it to Guan Yu, (While Guan Yu was serving him) Guan Yu took it when he left, and Cao Cao denied his troops the chance to kill him. Cao is strange in his ways, he believe he could get Guan Yu back one day, but never did.

The Red Hare was then take from Guan Yu by Pan Zhang (During the ambush) and refused to eat and die.

"The Luminious Sword" was owned by Cao Cao and he gave it to Xiahou En, and Xiahou En wasn't a fighter. On the first pass Zhao Yun defeated him and..he either ran and left the sword, or Zhao let he go and kept the sword.

Edit: Or he was killed as BG says (I'm sure but I thought he appeared later in the book)