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In many ways I agree with Vehemence. Language is a form of communication, and the main point if to get your views across to another person. If it worked, then you have accomplished your goal. Languages sould have guidelines to keep a stable medium of communication, but they are guidelines, not meant as rules set in stone.

@fable- I started using the dangling "with" after learning a foriegn language (Swedish). I assumed I had picked it up from there and I only really noticed others saying it after moving back to the States.

On a funny side note, I really enjoy mixed metaphors. If you say something like, "You hit the nail right between the eyes", you'd be amazed how many people don't even catch the joke.

Wow! I have no idea how THAT happened!

[ 05-13-2001: Message edited by: Rail ]

Yea yea Rail, we heard you the first time

No need to repeat yourself

My wife and I were just discussing hitting a restaurant tonight. I suggested doing this in about an hour, since it'll be late for dinner and probably a lot emptier. She agreed, and said "Yes, it's out of their normal sync of people eating."

I just stared, horrified. Some things were simply not meant to be done to the English language.

[ 05-25-2001: Message edited by: fable ]

I guess this isn't about anyone I know personally, but IMHO the English language suffers some of its worst indignities at the hands of post structuralist writers and/or academics (they are particularly adept at employing the most incomprehensible jargon imagineable). Most, I think, would do well to read George Orwell's essay on the subject.

@Dragon wench, I can't argue with that. I've read some books in jargoneering that repeated only disguised platitudes, at great length. And the horrible thing was that they were written by highly respected people in their respective fields. I suspect at times that jargon fulfills the same function today that involuted social codes did when first employed by late medieval aristocracy: it creates an impenetrable field designed to keep out the unwanted and unclean, while reassuring the inmates all is well.

@Fable: Yes, I've long thought that the use of jargon is just a form of elitism, a select group writing for a select group. My feeling is that writing is about communication, and if the majority can't understand a word of what you're trying to say, than you've failed in your task. I actually flirt a little with post structuralist notions, but I never use the terminology, it is entirely feasable to discuss most of those ideas without resorting to that jingoistic crap.

Originally posted by dragon wench:
<STRONG>@Fable: Yes, I've long thought that the use of jargon is just a form of elitism, a select group writing for a select group. My feeling is that writing is about communication, and if the majority can't understand a word of what you're trying to say, than you've failed in your task. I actually flirt a little with post structuralist notions, but I never use the terminology, it is entirely feasable to discuss most of those ideas without resorting to that jingoistic crap.</STRONG>

I agree. Or we might as well go back to sign langauge.

Some native English speaking people take micky out of non-English speaker's English. At least they are trying hard to speak foreign language.

My sister once said
"Mum can i bend my leg straight"

O yeah and "Merry new year" and "Happy christmas"
Merry and happy are totally different
Happy=felling good
Merry=drunk/flippin happy

But Craig, is there anything actually wrong with Happy Christmas and Merry New Year, even if they're not standard?

This thread reminds me of a joke my English Professor told his pupils. The topic was something like "the blending of elitist diction with the vernacular."

A rich widow is asked by a constable why she accosted a drunk who pinched her bottom.

Her reply? (I still remember the laughter in the classroom)

Her reply was:

"He piqued me... so I bashed him!"


Well, I guess you had to be there.

LOL Eminem that's funny

In a seminar I took last year, two of the students seemed to have some chemistry between them (which we were all aware of). The guy was giving a presentaion one day, and afterwards we all posed questions. The woman asked him a question and he was a bit long-winded in answering so she became impatient. He turned to her and said, "it's okay I'm warming up to you." Needless to say, everyone in the seminar (prof included) stared very hard at their desks.

[ 05-28-2001: Message edited by: dragon wench ]

Originally posted by fable:
<STRONG>But Craig, is there anything actually wrong with Happy Christmas and Merry New Year, even if they're not standard? </STRONG>

YES IT DRIVES ME NUTS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ 05-28-2001: Message edited by: craig ]

@Craig, calm down. There are flames spouting out of your pointy ears.

sorry

"Hey, let's do lunch!" Does that have anything to do with eating?

My two biggest bugaboos are actually written errors, there for their and your for you're. Actually three,
their for they're.

[ 05-29-2001: Message edited by: Anatres ]

Originally posted by Anatres:
[QB
My two biggest bugaboos are actually written errors, there for their and your for you're. Actually three,
their for they're.

[ 05-29-2001: Message edited by: Anatres ][/QB]

bet you love my posts then!

i actually butcher the english language daily. if you listen to any race they all screw it up one way or another:black(ebonics), southerners(rednecks, refer to Jeff Foxworthy), asian(You have fried rice), northerners( i had a friend that lived in Maine, i swear he couldn't pronounce a "r" for anything). you get the point. this is not to offend anyone cause i fit the redneck language perfectly.

Bottomline: only english teachers (and their children) speak perfect english.

@leedogg: That's not true. My former host mother speaks perfect English. And I mean English.

But, I don't have 'r' in my mouth. It doesn't exist in there. And I can easily confused by 'r' and 'l'.

Now, there will be the general election in UK next week. And I may get 'l' and 'r' mix up...