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I mean really if you think about it for a second. A guardian jedi with a good amount of Str and good crystals in his Dual lightsabers or Double Blade lightsaber will do on average 20-25 damage. Using power attack along with Master speed he will get an additional +40 damage. This means it will be 120-140 damage per attack. An extra swing from Flurry will only dish out 100-125 damage per attack. - Supposing that each swing hits.

Now supposing that each swing doesn't hit. Lets say that you use Master Speed and power attack but miss one of your hits. You will still get +30 damage from using power attack. Which will make up for the 20-25 damage your lightsaber would've done plus an additional 5-10 damage. Flurry on the other hand, if you miss one of your 4 attacks, an extra attack from flurry will only make up the 20-25 damage with no bonus damage. So on average even if you miss one of your 4 attacks using power strike, you will still do 90-115. Where as if you miss one of your 5 hits from using flurry, you will only do 80-100 damage.

So you people keep saying the math has been done, does that mean my math is wrong? I certainly hope not, I am after all using basic math.

(edit: oh btw the penatly of -3 to 'hit' you get from power attack isn't that much more than the -1 to 'hit' you get from flurry, especially if you are a Soldier/Guardian. My current guardian has +27 'hit' off hand +30 main hand and he has a low 16 Dexterity.)

I went to Gamefaqs to check out what you said, and I was mistaken- Dan Simpson apparently never wrote a guide for KOTOR I; I even went to dansimpson.com to check it out. The guide I was thinking of wasn't a walkthrough but rather was the "Gameplay Guide v1.4" by Sherwin Tam. This is the guide that I used extensively when I was building my last power character. There is a whole section on power attack vs. flurry vs. crit strike. Here is some of it:
[quote="S.Tam]--------------------------------------------------------------------
9.6 MELEE FEATS - Flurry vs. Power Attack (and Critical Strike"]
Like I said, the guide talks about other things too, including dual weilding vs. dueling, all npcs, class combos, etc. It is at http://www.gamefaqs.com in the XBox section; KOTOR I; FAQs, Guides and Walkthroughs. I would link to it, but gamefaqs doesn't let you link directly.

So when I said Power Attack beats out flurry unless

A: those using a 25% chance to stun crystal/item.
B: someone using only one single-blade lightsaber (which Critical Strike is also good for, especially vs bosses).
C: Someone who doesn’t plan to get the Master Speed ability.

Which is basically what the info you provided above says, Cuch. I'll read more up on his Faq, it looks interesting.

What I don't get though is that fable says power attack isn't as good as flurry after my post which says it is accept for the reasons A,B, &C and you said you agree with him, but then provide info that backs up my claims.

[QUOTE=Caden]What I don't get though is that fable says power attack isn't as good as flurry after my post which says it is accept for the reasons A,B, &C and you said you agree with him, but then provide info that backs up my claims.[/QUOTE]

No, I said that on an even field between Power Attack and Flurry, the former isn't as good as the latter, and I stand by this. I also said that if you were going to add in Master Speed to PA, thus stacking the odds to one side, of course PA was going to win out.

I already stated that info in my first post. That power attack is better unless you are not going to use master speed or if you are going to use one single blade weapon. Directly after that you posted that you disagreed and said that power attack was not as good as flurry. In that post you mentioned nothing about it being on an even playing field that doesn't factor in things like master speed. I had already stated that not using master speed and what not makes flurry superior in my first post. So you disagreeing with what I said started all this and then later you basically repeated what I was saying which was that Flurry was better if you are not going to use things like master speed, are only going to use one single blade weapon, or are using stunable weapons.

[QUOTE=Caden]I already stated that info in my first post.[/quote]

You began by writing, "After extensive testing, I learned Power Attack is far better than Flurry and is essential for Soldiers/Guardians." This gives a different impression than what you meant to say, since it doesn't mention Master Speed. I responded to this, and it appears Cuch is doing the same. If you're going to weigh two feats against one another and automatically throw in a power for one of those feats that compensates for a major weakness, it goes without saying that this is going to make it much better than the other. I didn't think you'd do anything that so obviously mis-weights the field of comparison, which is why I overlooked it in the following text of yours.

Mind, I do think you found a sound, workable strrategy for combining a power and a feat into a very strong combination. But if we go only by your initial statement, comparing the two feats on a level playing field, then Flurry is the better of the two. For what that's worth, since there's far more to the game than two feats, anyway.

On an even playing field Flurry is only better if you have equiped a weapon that does more than the +20 damage you'd get from power attack. Otherwise on an even playing field power attack is better.

The fact is that power attack could give out a possible +40 damage and that is why I said it is better than flurry. You'd need 50 str to get that from flurry.

On an even playing field, PA is better than Flurry with a melee weapon that delivers little damage. When you graduate to a melee weapon that delivers greater damage, Flurry is superior to PA.

You're saying the info Cuch gave said that flurry is better than power attack. It only says that for one-weapon fighting. For two-weapon fighting it says:

While Flurry always adds one attack, Power Attack applies to *each* attack.
Thus, when using two weapons, Power Attack adds +10 for both attacks, and
thus a potential +20 total. Of course, the -3 penalty still applies for
each attack, thus making Power Attack unusable against higher defense
opponents, but at lower differences Power Attack easily outstrips Flurry.
This difference gets larger as more attacks are added

So on an even playing field it's saying that power attack is better vs lower def opponents, but flurry is better vs higher defense opponents. Not that flurry is better. It says this because power attack has -3 to hit while flurry has -1 to hit.

However even vs high defense enemies, power attack is still better to use if you combine it with Master Speed. Like I’ve previously said, even if you miss 1 of your 4 hits using power attack, you still do more damage than if you miss 1 of your 5 hits using flurry. Not that I think -2 is that much for a potential +40 damage.

[QUOTE=Caden]However even vs high defense enemies, power attack is still better to use if you combine it with Master Speed. Like I’ve previously said, even if you miss 1 of your 4 hits using power attack, you still do more damage than if you miss 1 of your 5 hits using flurry. Not that I think -2 is that much for a potential +40 damage.[/QUOTE]

If you're going to bring MS into this, I could say that there are other paralyzing powers plus Flurry that are just as good as anything plus PA. Who cares? We were talking about a level playing field, and your comment that "After extensive testing, I learned Power Attack is far better than Flurry and is essential for Soldiers/Guardians." This remark is simply too broad as it stands. PA and Flurry, each by themselves, is better under different conditions.

[QUOTE=fable]On an even playing field, PA is better than Flurry with a melee weapon that delivers little damage. When you graduate to a melee weapon that delivers greater damage, Flurry is superior to PA.[/QUOTE]You have to wait till later in the game, a while after you're able to finish researching power attack and flurry to the last tier, when you're able to get the lightsaber crystals and equipment and the stats to raise your damage to do 20-25 damage and you'd have to plan your strategy to do a lot of damage in the first place. Up until that point, when you're doing 10-20 damage for the majority of the game, power attack is more useful than flurry. Towards the end of the game when you've equiped everything to give you the ability to do 20-25 damage flurry will be better, but by then you should've easily have gotten Master Speed to make power attack even better. Also if you're going to plan out your strategy to do a lot of damage like 20-25 and be a combat jedi, you might as well get power attack and master speed to improve your damage even more. Otherwise it seems kind of pointless to go throughout the entire game raising your strength and using +damage crystals to do that much damage if you're going to waste it on flurry.

What it is, is that you're trying to say that on an even level flurry is better than power attack and you're trying to defend it, not by doing the math or providing it yourself (Cuch is the one who provided the math), but by saying things like Cuch's info states it is better. When in fact, Cuch's info doesn't say that. It basically says their fine for different strategies. (it says)Neither is better, unless you add in master speed, in which case power attack is better.

The only way to make two-weapon flurry better than power attack is to have an unreasonably low hit ratio yourself or to build a combat jedi with the strongest crystals and high str modifiers so that by end game, you can do 25 damage a hit. Also you must not research master speed. But if you plan to build a combat jedi, why not get power attack and master speed?

(I've already stated in my first post that flurry is better for one weapon, but so is critical strike) The last possible way I can think of to make flurry better is if you have sneak attack, in which case it's debatable whether or not getting in more stuns with critical strike or an extra hit with flurry is better to use for a scoundrel. I would think critical strike to stun, and than flurry to do extra hits after you stun, but you'd have to get both.

[QUOTE=Caden]What it is, is that you're trying to say that on an even level flurry is better than power attack and you're trying to defend it, not by doing the math or providing it yourself (Cuch is the one who provided the math), but by saying things like Cuch's info states it is better. When in fact, Cuch's info doesn't say that. It basically says their fine for different strategies. (it says)Neither is better, unless you add in master speed, in which case power attack is better. [/quote]

I've been repeatedly stating that Flurry and PA are equally good under different circumstances. I don't see how you could have missed this.

On the other matter, I don't see any rule that denies me the right to use information somebody else posts. Come on, now. If you read back here quite some ways, you'll also find that this same information has been posted on GameBanshee before, and that I've posted about it before, too. So what?

The only way to make two-weapon flurry better than power attack is to have an unreasonably low hit ratio yourself or to build a combat jedi with the strongest crystals and high str modifiers so that by end game, you can do 25 damage a hit. Also you must not research master speed. But if you plan to build a combat jedi, why not get power attack and master speed?

Who said they couldn't? At the same time, why shouldn't somebody who wants to spend the power points on something else? There are many approaches to success, depending upon how one wants to build a character; and all of them work just about as well as one another, given the different combinations of training, weapons, and strategies. I've said as much, earlier in this thread. Surely you can agree to this? If not, why not?

@Caden

I didn't really read through the thread that thoroughly, because I read through that Character Guide on gamefaqs. This is my opinion on the matter:

read the guide.

S.Tam breaks down the feats, weapons, and powers to a level that I haven't seen anywhere else. He has done all the math for you. In the end, it seems to me that going with PA or Flurry depends totally on how you build your character! If you want to dual or not, be defensive or recklessly offensive, etc.- that will help you decide if you take PA or Flurry.