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Good idea weasel

OK-Ill do what weasel did


1. August 6, 1945 - First atomic bomb dropped on Hiroshima
2. July 20, 1969 - Man first landed on the moon
3. November 11, 1918 - End of World War I
4. September 11, 2001 - Terrorist attacks on World Trade Centre
5. December 22, 1989 - Fall of the Berlin Wall and communism
6. January 27, 1973 - Vietnam War cease-fire signed
7. November 22, 1963 - John F Kennedy assassinated
8. February 13, 1990 - Nelson Mandela freed
9. December 21, 1988 - Lockerbie aircraft bombing
10. June 4, 1989 - Tiananmen Square massacre

Just my POV

Hardly surprising. People are stupid. My contempt rises daily of late.

I couldn't even have told you when King Edward abdicated. Not that I ever considered myself "English" or "British" but I am adamant about leaving this country now.

Important dates? How about June 6th 1944. Even better, June 22nd 1941. Pretty much everything else is immaterial. The resolution of the Cuban Missile Crisis and the near nuclear wars of 1972 and 1979 are probably important as far as humanity saving its own @$$. Funny how people don't mention those - I'd have thought self presentation was high on the list of cowards.

Originally posted by Gruntboy
Hardly surprising. People are stupid. My contempt rises daily of late.

I couldn't even have told you when King Edward abdicated. Not that I ever considered myself "English" or "British" but I am adamant about leaving this country now.

Important dates? How about June 6th 1944. Even better, June 22nd 1941. Pretty much everything else is immaterial. The resolution of the Cuban Missile Crisis and the near nuclear wars of 1972 and 1979 are probably important as far as humanity saving its own @$$. Funny how people don't mention those - I'd have thought self presentation was high on the list of cowards.

I know what youre saying, Gruntboy. Theres plenty of important events they missed and, youre right. But it should be expected, and you have to work with what youve got.

"Its hard to fly with eagles when youre surrounded by vultures"

Originally posted by Gruntboy


Important dates?

Disclaimer: I only put in order the dates listed. My personal account of the top 10 events of the 20th will differ.

I know Weasel, its people here I'm upset with, not your interpretation of what was posted/decided.

Tybaltus, I refuse to work with it. I hereby announce my seccession from the "society" of the UK. Formally, in SYM

(like there was any ever doubt)

Originally posted by Gruntboy
Tybaltus, I refuse to work with it. I hereby announce my seccession from the "society" of the UK. Formally, in SYM

(like there was any ever doubt)

You could Join Cornwall, they are more or less their own country, they also have their own language now

@Sleep We havent heard your personal opinion about how the lists should be-care to share with us?

Originally posted by Tybaltus
@Sleep We havent heard your personal opinion about how the lists should be-care to share with us?

Dash *removes himself from the fence* Basically i think Princess Diana's death is the most unimportant thing on the entire list, she had very little actual impact on the world and i have never really personally understood the publics obsession with her. I have made my feelings clear in the past about Diana etc.

The Uk Lists (my opinion)

1 - November 11, 1918 - End of first world war
2 - September 3, 1939 - Start of second world war
3 - April 10, 1998 - Good Friday Agreement in Northern Ireland
4 - April 2, 1982 - Falklands War
5 - February 6, 1918 - Women win the right to vote
6 - December 8, 1980 - John Lennon assassinated
7 - June 2, 1953 - Queen Elizabeth II coronation
8 - December 11, 1936 - Abdication of Kind Edward
9 - August 31, 1997 - Princess Diana's death
10 - July 30, 1966 - England won World Cup

World List (my opinion)

1. November 11, 1918 - End of World War I
2. August 6, 1945 - First atomic bomb dropped on Hiroshima
3. December 22, 1989 - Fall of the Berlin Wall and communism
5. June 4, 1989 - Tiananmen Square massacre
4. January 27, 1973 - Vietnam War cease-fire signed
6. July 20, 1969 - Man first landed on the moon
7. February 13, 1990 - Nelson Mandela freed
8. September 11, 2001 - Terrorist attacks on World Trade Centre
9. November 22, 1963 - John F Kennedy assassinated
10. December 21, 1988 - Lockerbie aircraft bombing

@Sleep, I believe that classifying the end of WW1 and the beginning of WW2 as different events does not in any way betray a 'lack of historical knowledge'. I may be wrong though .

Anyway, I am not at all surprised. After reading the 'World List' I am absolutely certain that The Public are idiots. I am joining Gruntboy, and exiting British society. When I have enough money, I will move to a sterile, nationality-less nation...a socialist utopia, like Sweden or somewhere. For now, I will just never talk to another Brit again.

Disgusting, but unfortunately not surprising. I totally agree with mr Sleep that the death of princess Diana is probably the most insignificant even on the list, together with the World Cup win.

I will not rank the presented events since the list is not what I would personally view as the most important events.

Originally posted by frogus
When I have enough money, I will move to a sterile, nationality-less nation...a socialist utopia, like Sweden or somewhere.

ROFL, you are most welcome here, send me a PM when you plan to arrive, and I, Asty, Dottie and Silur will arrange a welcome party.

Originally posted by Mr Sleep
for instance the End of the First World War actually caused the second world war.

Not to nitpick, Mr Sleep, but his statement isn't quite completely true. Many of the causes of the Second World War are rooted in the Treaty of Versailles, although to say that the end of the First War caused the Second War is a bit of an overstatement and assumes that after the Allies and the Central Powers made up that another war was inevitable, which it wasn't, at least not in 1919.

Originally posted by HighLordDave

Not to nitpick, Mr Sleep, but his statement isn't quite completely true. Many of the causes of the Second World War are rooted in the Treaty of Versailles, although to say that the end of the First War caused the Second War is a bit of an overstatement and assumes that after the Allies and the Central Powers made up that another war was inevitable, which it wasn't, at least not in 1919.

You are right, however i would still contend that without the Treaty of Versailles Hitler would not have gained such substantial power since the country would not have been in such disrepair and the public would not have been so desperate.

The end of World War 1 is more significant than World War 2 because without 1 there would be no 2, at least not in the way it turned out. Although the end of World War 2 then prompted the cold war and (as Grunt said) the Bay of Pigs saga and everything that surrounded that.

Saying that an events causing another event makes it more important is bad reasoning. Chances are, if somewhere a million years ago, a caveman had decided to climb a tree instead of smash a rock world wars one and two would not have taken place. Needless to say, this does not mean that a caveman smashing a rock was more important than WW1.

Originally posted by frogus
Saying that an events causing another event makes it more important is bad reasoning. Chances are, if somewhere a million years ago, a caveman had decided to climb a tree instead of smash a rock world wars one and two would not have taken place. Needless to say, this does not mean that a caveman smashing a rock was more important than WW1.

I disagree, how is one supposed to judge the worth of any event if not by it's causes.

Do you mean 'results' when you say 'causes'?

Anyway, I think you are right. Thinking about it, there must be a mistake in my caveman example...but I cannot see what it is...*thinks*.

EDIT - It is because, AFAIK, Possible Worlds do not exist. It is impossible to say what causes what, and thus, the whole concept of 'importance' when applied to an event is meaningless. I withdraw my earlier list .

Originally posted by Mr Sleep
I disagree, how is one supposed to judge the worth of any event if not by it's causes.

Doesn't this seem to run the risk, though, of leading us through an ever receding background of causes? After all, the Treaty of Versailles' harshness was based on the humiliation in turn administered to France by Germany during the 1871 Franco-Prussian War. Clemenceau could have secured nothing less from Germany at the end of WWI without finding himself booted out of a job and replaced by someone who would have demanded as much.

To study history is to study the relationships between events from the past and their impact on events later in time. You will find very few events that were caused by a singular previous event.

People rightly name the Treaty of Versailles as one of the principle causes of the Second World War. However, to say that it was the cause neglects to take into account the events between 28 June 1919 (the day the Treaty was signed) and 1 September 1939 (the day the Wehrmacht rolled into Poland).

You can find almost no event in history that has a monocausal source. To use the Second World War as an example: If someone other than Hitler had been Chancellor of Germany, would there necessarily have been a war? If the world-wide economy hadn't collapsed at the end of the 1920s, would the Nazis have come to power? What if Hindenburg had been able to control Hitler like the thought he could? If someone other than Hitler had seized control of the National Socialist Party, would they have gone to war again? What if the French and British had forced the Germans out of Czechoslovakia instead of appeasing Hitler?

I hate to bring up a lot of these scenarios because it's what we call "iffy history", and is the endless source of conjecture, but my point is that in the 20 or so years between the Treaty of Versailles and the day the Germans invaded Poland, there were a lot of variables that may or may not have affected the course of later events.

One of the things about Top 10 lists, at least when dealing with the public, is that they tend to reflect popular preferences and are more often weighted towards more recent events. For instance, John Lennon's assassination is a comparatively minor event (I wouldn't even put it on the list) but since he was near and dear to a lot of people, polls show that people think it's important. Similarly, this being the year of Queen Elizabeth's Juliblee Celebration, we should expect that to be rated higher than it's real importance because it's constantly on the tube.