30 frames/sec -> turn of 6 secs
24 frames/sec -> turn of 7.5 secs
That explains your spell durations. Leoric, you beat me in the Quest for Maximum Damage/Round, I humbly admit. BTW, couldn't you cast all the instant spells you got, cast wish to restore them and cast them again during a single round. Using Vecna and Amulet of Power, of course.
Most damage
Interesting, I knew that I miss a lot with not using Vecna. 
Another idea: is improved alacrity activates immediately after casting (not the end of round)?
If that is true, we can also use Project Image (with Vecna + Amulet of Power). Unfortunately Simulacrum cannot cast Improved Alacrity (with xp cap, except from scrolls).
Assuming no pre-cast clones and no cheese contingency use (multiple Project Images at the same time) we would still be able to theoretically triple (practically double) the damage inflicted:
Preparation:
-(patched) Minor Globe of Invulnerability or Protection from Magical Energy
-Improved Alacrity
-move to combat
0: Chain contingency fires: Project Image, 2xAbi Dalzim.
0: Project Image cast: Improved Alacrity
4: Project Image cast all insta spells finishing with Dispel Magic (switch back to the caster)
4: caster cast Chain contingency: with Project Image, 2xAbi Dalzim.
4: Chain Contingency fires (this is theoretical, as with the current engine the contingency won't fire immediately)
4: Project Image cast: Improved Alacrity
8: Project Image cast all insta spells finishing with Dispel Magic (switch back to the caster)
8: caster cast all insta spells
---
From our earlier calculation that would mean an average 4500 damage/round/enemy.
Another idea: is improved alacrity activates immediately after casting (not the end of round)?
If that is true, we can also use Project Image (with Vecna + Amulet of Power). Unfortunately Simulacrum cannot cast Improved Alacrity (with xp cap, except from scrolls).
Assuming no pre-cast clones and no cheese contingency use (multiple Project Images at the same time) we would still be able to theoretically triple (practically double) the damage inflicted:
Preparation:
-(patched) Minor Globe of Invulnerability or Protection from Magical Energy
-Improved Alacrity
-move to combat
0: Chain contingency fires: Project Image, 2xAbi Dalzim.
0: Project Image cast: Improved Alacrity
4: Project Image cast all insta spells finishing with Dispel Magic (switch back to the caster)
4: caster cast Chain contingency: with Project Image, 2xAbi Dalzim.
4: Chain Contingency fires (this is theoretical, as with the current engine the contingency won't fire immediately)
4: Project Image cast: Improved Alacrity
8: Project Image cast all insta spells finishing with Dispel Magic (switch back to the caster)
8: caster cast all insta spells
---
From our earlier calculation that would mean an average 4500 damage/round/enemy.
Wish/rest is also nice, but has a casting time of 4 plus some delay talking to the Genie. And we still need luck to access the rest (in my experience it is around 20% with Wis>=18).
I was also thinking about the DoubleLength-TimeStop+ImprovedAlacrity. Without the (Baldurdash) patch it turns every spell to insta cast. Unfortunately the timestop itself prevent us to cause damage "within" one round (caster time).
But if we extend our focus to "enemy time", the abilites are endless and we can tell that a sorcerer (and many mages) can cause unlimited damage within 0 time.
[ 09-27-2001: Message edited by: Kovi ]
I was also thinking about the DoubleLength-TimeStop+ImprovedAlacrity. Without the (Baldurdash) patch it turns every spell to insta cast. Unfortunately the timestop itself prevent us to cause damage "within" one round (caster time).
But if we extend our focus to "enemy time", the abilites are endless and we can tell that a sorcerer (and many mages) can cause unlimited damage within 0 time.
[ 09-27-2001: Message edited by: Kovi ]
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UserUnfriendly
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Just one additional factor...first strike of DOOM!
cast timestop, increased acuity, then unlead all your chains and triggers...assumming you preset them the rest before a major battle, and set up max damage spells, each trigger or chain has around casting time of zero or one... thus for the first few rounds you are unloading in timestop instant duration spells but included are skulls, cones of cold, and abu dahzim... unloading all your triggers means that the first spells cast in time stop have the same duration as a magic missile, but contain 3 skulls or even three abu dahzims.... in fact have enough chains and abu dahzims memorized, you can take advantage of its instant cast durationa and completely deplete a spell book that way...
for example, have about 5 or so chain cont memorized or in scrolls, and nothing but destructo spells in the rest. cast timestop and incr acuity, cast chain, it fires instantly, even in timestop, then fill with slow but very damaging spells. when you unpause, the chain fires, then repeat. with a sorc, with approx 7 spells of 9th level, you can completely deplete yourslef this way...firing about 15 major damage but slow spells in few seconds...and you still havea lot of fast but low damage spells left!!!
out of the seven at 9th level, you use timestop, increased acuity and use 5 chians... you can completely deplete your abu dahzims in one gasp and start working on skull traps and delay balast fireballs....even more evil, you still have a lot of the timestop left to deplete dragon breath and magic missiles and cromatic spheres...
cast timestop, increased acuity, then unlead all your chains and triggers...assumming you preset them the rest before a major battle, and set up max damage spells, each trigger or chain has around casting time of zero or one... thus for the first few rounds you are unloading in timestop instant duration spells but included are skulls, cones of cold, and abu dahzim... unloading all your triggers means that the first spells cast in time stop have the same duration as a magic missile, but contain 3 skulls or even three abu dahzims.... in fact have enough chains and abu dahzims memorized, you can take advantage of its instant cast durationa and completely deplete a spell book that way...
for example, have about 5 or so chain cont memorized or in scrolls, and nothing but destructo spells in the rest. cast timestop and incr acuity, cast chain, it fires instantly, even in timestop, then fill with slow but very damaging spells. when you unpause, the chain fires, then repeat. with a sorc, with approx 7 spells of 9th level, you can completely deplete yourslef this way...firing about 15 major damage but slow spells in few seconds...and you still havea lot of fast but low damage spells left!!!
out of the seven at 9th level, you use timestop, increased acuity and use 5 chians... you can completely deplete your abu dahzims in one gasp and start working on skull traps and delay balast fireballs....even more evil, you still have a lot of the timestop left to deplete dragon breath and magic missiles and cromatic spheres...
They call me Darth...
Darth Gizka!
Muwahahahahhahahha!!!
Darth Gizka!
Muwahahahahhahahha!!!
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UserUnfriendly
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now here is soemthing I was going to try against non timestoppable creatures...
previous to encounter, prepare chain cont with 3 project image, condition helpless.
go to encounter, trigger project image, you have 4 images. have each in turn cast spell immunity div, for truesight protection, then each image casts increased acuitystoneskin, prot from elements and prot from energy, and prot from magic energy. then cast imp acuity, then using(abusing) the auto pause, each image casts abu dahzims preceeded by breach if you want, until image is depleted. move down to lower level damage spells.
you should be able to fill up a small map entirely with inc clouds, and death fogs that way. after the abu dahizims, of course.
and the original mage or sorc still has a full spellbook!!!
previous to encounter, prepare chain cont with 3 project image, condition helpless.
go to encounter, trigger project image, you have 4 images. have each in turn cast spell immunity div, for truesight protection, then each image casts increased acuitystoneskin, prot from elements and prot from energy, and prot from magic energy. then cast imp acuity, then using(abusing) the auto pause, each image casts abu dahzims preceeded by breach if you want, until image is depleted. move down to lower level damage spells.
you should be able to fill up a small map entirely with inc clouds, and death fogs that way. after the abu dahizims, of course.
and the original mage or sorc still has a full spellbook!!!
They call me Darth...
Darth Gizka!
Muwahahahahhahahha!!!
Darth Gizka!
Muwahahahahhahahha!!!
Project Image can cast Simulacrum (no Cheese there). Simulacrum can use a Scroll of Simulacrum (minor Cheese).
A Wild Mage can force all his level 1 slots into level 9 spells through Nahal's Reckless Dweomer (no Cheese). That thing doesn't even need Improved Alacrity (big Cheese)!
Suppose each and every Wild Surge ends up either giving you more Wild Surge rolls or multiplying the damage...
You can chain several Time Stops together by casting another one before the current one expires.
Don't forget about UserUnfriendly's trick of unloading wands with Improved Alacrity.
A Wild Mage can force all his level 1 slots into level 9 spells through Nahal's Reckless Dweomer (no Cheese). That thing doesn't even need Improved Alacrity (big Cheese)!
Suppose each and every Wild Surge ends up either giving you more Wild Surge rolls or multiplying the damage...
You can chain several Time Stops together by casting another one before the current one expires.
Don't forget about UserUnfriendly's trick of unloading wands with Improved Alacrity.
[url="http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/BG2/SpellsReference/Main.htm"]Baldur's Gate 2 Spells Reference[/url]: Strategy, tips, tricks, bugs, cheese and corrections to the manual.
If we are talking to the original "caster time" round, Simulacrum has no use. It can't cast Improved Alacrity (xp cap), so can't cast only one spell.
The chaining of Time Stop is nice. If we are thinking about "enemy time" and don't abuse the Wish:TimeStop (-10 to casting = every cast is instant), the chaining of normal TimeStops is necessary to keep casting.
Just we shouldn't forget that within a TimeStop only the caster can act, not the Simulacrum or Project Image.
So I have to back-up from "unlimited damage", even a Sorceror would have a chance to loose all Wishes without the rest option. But the Bhaalspawns can still use Pocket Plane!
The chaining of Time Stop is nice. If we are thinking about "enemy time" and don't abuse the Wish:TimeStop (-10 to casting = every cast is instant), the chaining of normal TimeStops is necessary to keep casting.
Just we shouldn't forget that within a TimeStop only the caster can act, not the Simulacrum or Project Image.
So I have to back-up from "unlimited damage", even a Sorceror would have a chance to loose all Wishes without the rest option. But the Bhaalspawns can still use Pocket Plane!
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King Leoric
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well, about wishes, there are 3 scrolls in the game. each of your clones (at least 6 PI and 6 Simmys for a sorceror) would be able to cast all those 3 (after a little potion of insight for each one... too bad that if the original caster drinks one, the wisdom gain isn't passed to the clones).
In a perfect cheese world, teh simmys FROM the Projected images would carry the scrolls, so you'd have (6*6+6)*3=126 scrolls of wish castable, without spending the scrolls and without sleeping...
Well, but you can still have many tries of wish without sleeping, and this means that you *WILL* have your dreams come true, and that you don't even have to save before having your army cast the whishes...
Too bad that you can only have 4 PIs that can be active in a certain time via chain cont.
They can read their scrolls and cast their memorized wishes, and if you are high level (cap=lvl 31 mage or lvl 10/30 fig/mage), the simmys from teh PIs will have one (or two for specialist wizards (?))Wish memorized (0.6*level 30=level 18).
So, you can have 4 PIs and 6*4=24 Simmys (at least) with wishes memorized active AT THE SAME TIME...
This means that at any time, 27 wishes can be launched simultaniously, and you still have one "official" caster to unleash hell on the enemies, with a great chance of "rest" appearing.
Well, of course you could use all your clones to make the skies fall on the heads of your enemies, with impr alacrity for all of them. But the problem is that the 24 simmis from teh 4 PIs won't be wearing the robe of cheese, neither the amulet of power, so you won't have insta-spells, but still, there's LOTS OF DAMAGE TO BE CAUSED.
With all this, who needs Nuclear weapons????
And also, during this, there's the problem that the computer will certainly crash...
Ps.: Just one doubt... I've only used once that cheese combo of Chain cont and PIs, and if i remember correctly, but i am not sure, all of my clones were "drinking from the same fountain of spells" (ie: i have one magic missile memorized and one of the clones casts it. now, this spell is unmemorized for all of the other clones, so that nobody else can cast that MM again...)
Is this the way it works?
In a perfect cheese world, teh simmys FROM the Projected images would carry the scrolls, so you'd have (6*6+6)*3=126 scrolls of wish castable, without spending the scrolls and without sleeping...
Well, but you can still have many tries of wish without sleeping, and this means that you *WILL* have your dreams come true, and that you don't even have to save before having your army cast the whishes...
Too bad that you can only have 4 PIs that can be active in a certain time via chain cont.
They can read their scrolls and cast their memorized wishes, and if you are high level (cap=lvl 31 mage or lvl 10/30 fig/mage), the simmys from teh PIs will have one (or two for specialist wizards (?))Wish memorized (0.6*level 30=level 18).
So, you can have 4 PIs and 6*4=24 Simmys (at least) with wishes memorized active AT THE SAME TIME...
This means that at any time, 27 wishes can be launched simultaniously, and you still have one "official" caster to unleash hell on the enemies, with a great chance of "rest" appearing.
Well, of course you could use all your clones to make the skies fall on the heads of your enemies, with impr alacrity for all of them. But the problem is that the 24 simmis from teh 4 PIs won't be wearing the robe of cheese, neither the amulet of power, so you won't have insta-spells, but still, there's LOTS OF DAMAGE TO BE CAUSED.
With all this, who needs Nuclear weapons????
And also, during this, there's the problem that the computer will certainly crash...
Ps.: Just one doubt... I've only used once that cheese combo of Chain cont and PIs, and if i remember correctly, but i am not sure, all of my clones were "drinking from the same fountain of spells" (ie: i have one magic missile memorized and one of the clones casts it. now, this spell is unmemorized for all of the other clones, so that nobody else can cast that MM again...)
Is this the way it works?
Being an Evil Overlord seems to be a good career choice. It pays well, there are all sorts of perks and you can set your own hours. However every Evil Overlord I've read about in books or seen in movies invariably gets overthrown and destroyed in the end. I've noticed that no matter whether they are barbarian lords, deranged wizards, mad scientists or alien invaders, they always seem to make the same basic mistakes every single time. Therefore, if I ever happen to become an Evil Overlord, ...
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UserUnfriendly
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I have not experiemtned extesnively enough with mult spawned images to know about them drinking from the same spell pool... makes sense. however, this is a not a big deal when you NEED this evil tactic. most of the time you cast pi, once and have a wiz eye follow it around until you get to dragon or whatever, then you cast timestop and unload HELL, rinse and repeat....
you only need this to take on timestop immune chars like you know who. and the reason to do this is to quadruple the number of spells you can cast per your round, nothing more. and with sorcs,, you don't need to worry about one image depleting all your delay action fireballs in one round...so the next image can only throw gym socks at the enemy....sorcs rule!!!!
you have the cloned pool of spells, and even if all your images deplete all your spells, completely possible with this trick, until they disappear, have your images cast wands at the enemy. you're going for raw, pure firepower here, and lets face it, a machine gun is not simply a fast rifle!!!!
I don't know about you, but even a stinking fireball wand, with 50 charges does 6d6 damage per round, with greater acuity and its incredibly fast cast time, I once unloaded 20 charges before acuity ran out, that works to around 20x6d6, or 120 pts min to 7200 points. to bad it does not work on liches, but you have an instant crispy brown dragon bake in one timestop greater acuity...
wand rule all!!!
I personally always carry the triple threat myself....
1 frost, for fire creatuers
1 fireball for everything else
and a cloudkill, for cheese.
you only need this to take on timestop immune chars like you know who. and the reason to do this is to quadruple the number of spells you can cast per your round, nothing more. and with sorcs,, you don't need to worry about one image depleting all your delay action fireballs in one round...so the next image can only throw gym socks at the enemy....sorcs rule!!!!
you have the cloned pool of spells, and even if all your images deplete all your spells, completely possible with this trick, until they disappear, have your images cast wands at the enemy. you're going for raw, pure firepower here, and lets face it, a machine gun is not simply a fast rifle!!!!
I don't know about you, but even a stinking fireball wand, with 50 charges does 6d6 damage per round, with greater acuity and its incredibly fast cast time, I once unloaded 20 charges before acuity ran out, that works to around 20x6d6, or 120 pts min to 7200 points. to bad it does not work on liches, but you have an instant crispy brown dragon bake in one timestop greater acuity...
wand rule all!!!
I personally always carry the triple threat myself....
1 frost, for fire creatuers
1 fireball for everything else
and a cloudkill, for cheese.
They call me Darth...
Darth Gizka!
Muwahahahahhahahha!!!
Darth Gizka!
Muwahahahahhahahha!!!
Cloning is not a very exact science yet... Second generation clones will not have items, and I noticed they often miss spells as well. Especially spells you have only one or two of seem to disappear between clonings.
@ King Leoric: 6 PIs can't make 24 Simmys... Only 1 Simmy per caster. However, the Simmys can use scrolls to cast PI.
@ King Leoric: 6 PIs can't make 24 Simmys... Only 1 Simmy per caster.
However, the Simmys can use scrolls to cast PI.[url="http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/BG2/SpellsReference/Main.htm"]Baldur's Gate 2 Spells Reference[/url]: Strategy, tips, tricks, bugs, cheese and corrections to the manual.
I came to the conclusion that time-stop is not useful, as neither project images can act, nor you can talk with the Dao.
With scrolls/wand usage the damage can go very high (still no unlimited though).
And I realized that theoretically a Wild Mage has a better chance to cast "forever" than the sorceror with using using NRD: Limited Wish:restore spells (if that is possible).
With scrolls/wand usage the damage can go very high (still no unlimited though).
And I realized that theoretically a Wild Mage has a better chance to cast "forever" than the sorceror with using using NRD: Limited Wish:restore spells (if that is possible).
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King Leoric
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@Xyx
Sorry, my mistake...
I usually test things before posting, but since PIs can cast "infinite" summons, and even more than one "angel" (devas and planetars are angels, right?), i thought that their cheese potencial was endless.
So i thought that the limit of one simmy/caster was not valid for PIs, but i tested and (of course) you were right: Not even PIs can have more than one Simulacrum active at the same time.
I also noticed something strange: The simmy from the PI didn't have any quick items, but his quick weapons were showing in the screen, even though i couldn't equip/change them. But the simmy from the simmy from the PI was completely Naked, as usual.
I also noticed that the simmy from the simmy had the exact same spells as his "father", as expected from some posts, but wich i had never tested... (gotta find some way for this higher level son to recover his spells... maybe something with wondrous recall for M/Cs)
Sorry, my mistake...
I usually test things before posting, but since PIs can cast "infinite" summons, and even more than one "angel" (devas and planetars are angels, right?), i thought that their cheese potencial was endless.
So i thought that the limit of one simmy/caster was not valid for PIs, but i tested and (of course) you were right: Not even PIs can have more than one Simulacrum active at the same time.
I also noticed something strange: The simmy from the PI didn't have any quick items, but his quick weapons were showing in the screen, even though i couldn't equip/change them. But the simmy from the simmy from the PI was completely Naked, as usual.
I also noticed that the simmy from the simmy had the exact same spells as his "father", as expected from some posts, but wich i had never tested... (gotta find some way for this higher level son to recover his spells... maybe something with wondrous recall for M/Cs)
Being an Evil Overlord seems to be a good career choice. It pays well, there are all sorts of perks and you can set your own hours. However every Evil Overlord I've read about in books or seen in movies invariably gets overthrown and destroyed in the end. I've noticed that no matter whether they are barbarian lords, deranged wizards, mad scientists or alien invaders, they always seem to make the same basic mistakes every single time. Therefore, if I ever happen to become an Evil Overlord, ...
http://br.geocities.com/medicina011/
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UserUnfriendly
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sorry guys, I don't ever use simmy, ILOVE MY IMAGES! I know them, know their litmiations and understand them....
simmys are not my fav. at all....
any monster in the game can be wiped off the floor by image and summon planter...
I hit demo gorgy with five, it went down so fasst after 1 breach it was pathetic...
simmys are not my fav. at all....
any monster in the game can be wiped off the floor by image and summon planter...
I hit demo gorgy with five, it went down so fasst after 1 breach it was pathetic...
They call me Darth...
Darth Gizka!
Muwahahahahhahahha!!!
Darth Gizka!
Muwahahahahhahahha!!!
Some new ideas mixed into a (theoretical) combination for the highest hit damage:
Assasin/Fighter with Amulet of Power, Shapechange scroll and Wish scroll.
Actions:
- Shapechange
- Wish: lucky choice of (Double Length Timestop + ) Improved Alacrity (Baldurdash fix).
- Assasination
- Critical Strike
- Greater Whirlwind
- Shapechange to Iron Golem
That is:
10 x 2 x (7 x (40 + ~5) + ~15) = 6600 damage/round (if not averted by helmet).
[ 12-01-2001: Message edited by: Kovi ]
(sorry for the mistakes)
[ 12-01-2001: Message edited by: Kovi ]
Assasin/Fighter with Amulet of Power, Shapechange scroll and Wish scroll.
Actions:
- Shapechange
- Wish: lucky choice of (Double Length Timestop + ) Improved Alacrity (Baldurdash fix).
- Assasination
- Critical Strike
- Greater Whirlwind
- Shapechange to Iron Golem
That is:
10 x 2 x (7 x (40 + ~5) + ~15) = 6600 damage/round (if not averted by helmet).
[ 12-01-2001: Message edited by: Kovi ]
(sorry for the mistakes)
[ 12-01-2001: Message edited by: Kovi ]
Kovi that is one mean machine you got there!
About simmys. I found that once you hit level 40 as a sorceror your simulacrum will have a full spellbook. Then you can cast simulacrum and even though you cannot cast another simulacrum, your simulacrum can, this means alot of simulacrums. You can then have them all cast improved alacrity for maximum firepower. Also fo extra cheese you can use the ability to be immune to timestop you get in the ascension mod and have all your simmies active during the same timestop.
Sorcerors must be the class with the highest cheese possibility.
Another good one is to have a scroll of timestop in your quick item slot and have your simmy use that since that cannot be interrupted.
Good for fights that don't allow preparations.
So actually 4 PI can create 24 simulacrums and it wont take long to do so cause every new clone can start casting sraight away.
I am not sure if the simmies vreated from a PI can attack, say with energy blades they might be able to.
Anyway you probably need a good computer if you are going to use this method.
[ 12-01-2001: Message edited by: Bruce Lee ]
About simmys. I found that once you hit level 40 as a sorceror your simulacrum will have a full spellbook. Then you can cast simulacrum and even though you cannot cast another simulacrum, your simulacrum can, this means alot of simulacrums. You can then have them all cast improved alacrity for maximum firepower. Also fo extra cheese you can use the ability to be immune to timestop you get in the ascension mod and have all your simmies active during the same timestop.
Sorcerors must be the class with the highest cheese possibility.
Another good one is to have a scroll of timestop in your quick item slot and have your simmy use that since that cannot be interrupted.
Good for fights that don't allow preparations.
So actually 4 PI can create 24 simulacrums and it wont take long to do so cause every new clone can start casting sraight away.
I am not sure if the simmies vreated from a PI can attack, say with energy blades they might be able to.
Anyway you probably need a good computer if you are going to use this method.
[ 12-01-2001: Message edited by: Bruce Lee ]
You can't handle the truth!
I actually wonder whether it's better to not scribe Time Stop scrolls. Instead, keep all of them stacked up in a quickslot and have clones use them. Every clone starts out life with 10 free rounds.
[url="http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/BG2/SpellsReference/Main.htm"]Baldur's Gate 2 Spells Reference[/url]: Strategy, tips, tricks, bugs, cheese and corrections to the manual.
