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It's the Weapon Focus: Dagger, TWF and DEX 15+ which scare me. Once you Wildshape, you'll be using none of those, ever.

Your point about GMW/Fang being capped at +5 is a good one, though, in MotB. Any other way to keep Wildshapes up to speed there?

GawainBS wrote:It's the Weapon Focus: Dagger, TWF and DEX 15+ which scare me. Once you Wildshape, you'll be using none of those, ever.

Your point about GMW/Fang being capped at +5 is a good one, though, in MotB. Any other way to keep Wildshapes up to speed there?

Human as the race helps out with the feat problem.. in fact it wasn't too bad a deal on the build I tested. You don't need Strength or Charisma for the build, nor even Intelligence. You DO need to be worried about racial favored classes though with 2 base classes.. unless you don't care about a 20% level penalty for 75% of the build.

The wildshape's own strength or dexterity helps, but Intuitive Attack really helps a LOT. THEN factor-in the contribution of Owl's Insight. Finally remember that both the "Lion" and NW class are High BAB classes.

Result: Attacks aren't a problem.

Also - Owl's Insight, Greater Magic Weapon, & Magic Fang - all have long durations - which for the most part means they shouldn't behave as "buffers" UNLESS those spells are somehow dispelled. (..and frankly a good divine caster build NEVER has this problem.) In a PvP universe of course it's a serious problem with Breaches and MKD's.

Still 15+ DEX is utterly wasted, and those points can be of good use somewhere else. I prefer higher INT, since skill points are very nice. Sadly, you can't really ignore STR, as this would leave you encumbered lots of the time. (An annoyance, not a shortcoming, but annoying nonetheless.) Keep in mind Nature's Warrior and Lion of Thalisnid already require two (near) useless feats.
You won't ever be using TWF, nor WF: Dagger. I haven't touched the issue of requiring Sneak Attack, and thus a lvl of Rogue/Ninja/..., which means excluding either Lion of Thalisnid, or Nature's Warrior, which drops the BAB. Any benefit from being able to use higher +X daggers is lost by now. (Barring VERY powerful daggers, and even then...)
Intuitive Attack isn't as good as you make it out to be: most Wildshapes have pretty high STR, and it will take a while before your enhanced WIS is higher, even with Owl's Insight. It is probably worth a feat, though.

Thinking of it, a Druid past lvl 20 loses much of its attraction, due to non-scaling spells at that point.

Maybe I should go for a plain Monk or Ranger after all.

I start out as a Paladin Errant, then switch to fighter when leveling to 2. I keep leveling as fighter until level 19 or 20 (lots of extra feats and extra advantages that way), then at 19 or 20 I switch to Divine Champion. Because I have noticed that you cannot level as Divine Champion more than 10 or so times.

So by the time you max out at level 30, your final level is Divine Champion.

Scott, glad I checked in the forum. I can't wait to try your build and tactics. Never used evards tentacles before. Your build Sorcerer - OC Build (with MOTB conventions). | NWN2 Character Builder

Did you make any fun parties for SoZ?

Gawain here is my ranger build, no PRC however:

Squad Leader
Rogue(12), Ranger(13), Neverwinter Nine(4), Shadowdancer(1)

Race: Tiefling

I decided to make the Ranger version of my Rogue/Fighter/NW9/SD. Less AB and lossof LoH/ Armor Skin. On the other hand I pick up toughness (although still less HP) trade fort for will/reflex save. Also I get Camouflage in woodlands which along with the +20% speed bonus means I am going to be fast in the wilds with HIPS on. Finally I gain detection skills. And of course Ranger: spells, FE, Tracking, Animal. To find related rogues (BAB 26 PTWF Epic Precision HIPs) see my builds cited in my link Click Here

Ranger Combat Style: Two-Weapon Fighting

Alignment: Any
Deity: -

STR: 8 (this is for start at level 30. I'd lose 30 skill points if I were you and take 16 int 12 STR)
DEX: 19(26)
CON: 12
WIS: 13
INT: 18
CHA: 6

{Darkvision, Skill Affinity (Hide), Infernal Resistance, Racial Spell (Darkness), Skill Affinity (Bluff), Resist Fire, Resist Cold, Resist Electrical}

Bonusfeats: §: Rogue, $: Ranger

Lvl 01: Ranger(1): Background: Wild Child0, Weapon Finesse, FE: Undead $, {Track}
Lvl 02: Rogue(1): {Sneak Attack (+1d6), Trapfinding}
Lvl 03: Ranger(2): Dodge, {Two-Weapon Fighting (Ranger TWF)}
Lvl 04: Rogue(2): DEX+1, {Evasion}, (DEX=20)
Lvl 05: Ranger(3): {Toughness}
Lvl 06: Rogue(3): Mobility, {Trap Sense (+1)}
Lvl 07: Ranger(4): {Animal Companion}
Lvl 08: Shadowdancer(1): DEX+1, {Hide in Plain Sight}, (DEX=21)
Lvl 09: Rogue(4): Able Learner, {Uncanny Dodge}
Lvl 10: Rogue(5)
Lvl 11: Ranger(5): FE: Humans $
Lvl 12: Ranger(6): DEX+1, WF (Kukri), {Impr. Two-Weapon Fighting (Ranger TWF)}, (DEX=22)
Lvl 13: Rogue(6)
Lvl 14: Rogue(7)
Lvl 15: Ranger(7): Blind-Fight, {Woodland Stride}
Lvl 16: Rogue(8): DEX+1, {Improved Uncanny Dodge}, (DEX=23)
Lvl 17: Ranger(8): {Swift Tracker}
Lvl 18: Rogue(9): Combat Expertise
Lvl 19: Ranger(9)
Lvl 20: Ranger(10): DEX+1, FE: Constructs $, (DEX=24)
Lvl 21: Rogue(10): Epic Precision, Crippling Strike §
Lvl 22: Ranger(11): {Greater Two-Weapon Fighting (Ranger TWF)}
Lvl 23: Rogue(11): Epic Prowess
Lvl 24: Neverwinter Nine(1): DEX+1, {Protective Aura}, (DEX=25)
Lvl 25: Neverwinter Nine(2): Combat Insight, {Guarding the Lord}
Lvl 26: Neverwinter Nine(3): {Frantic Reactions}
Lvl 27: Ranger(12): Expose Weakness
Lvl 28: Ranger(13): DEX+1, {Camouflage}, (DEX=26)
Lvl 29: Neverwinter Nine(4): Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting
Lvl 30: Rogue(12)


BAB: 26

Max. Melee AB: 36 (Kukri), Max. Ranged AB: 35

Attack Schedule: 34/29/24/19/14/9 (both Kukris)
*+7 Kukris
*+4 via +8 dex item
*whatever buffs friends can spare

Damage 1d4 +4 (Main) or +2 (Off)
*+7 enhanced Kukri
*+4 Main +2 Off via +8 int item
*whatever buffs come his way

Sneak Attack: 8d6 (protected by epic precision/crippling strike)

Armor Class:

Mundane:
10 Base
3 Tumble
8 Dex
= 21 (23 with Large Shield)

Magical:
+7 Dodge
+7 Deflection
+7 Armor
+7 Natural
+4 DEX
= 53 (62 with Large Shield +7)

Also HIPS and UMD (perhaps wand/scrolls of haste/displacement/mirror image from a friendly wizard?)

Spell Casting: Ranger(3)
Detailed Spell Casting (Level 0-9): Ranger: 0 • 2 • 2 • 1
Sneak Attack: 8d6

Saving Throws (Fortitude/Reflex/Will): 14/30/13
* +3 vs Spells

Hitpoints: 276

Skillpoints: 346

Concentration: 28(29), Craft Trap: 6(10), Disable Device: 31(37), Hide: 33(44), Listen: 33(34), Move Silently: 33(42), Open Lock: 31(39), Search: 31(35), Set Trap: 5(15), Spellcraft: 15(19), Spot: 33(34), Survival: 4(6), Tumble: 30(39), Use Magic Device: 33(31)
Note: you can play without Concentration(or detection skill(s)) in order to grant you diplomacy (or max survival)...

Edit: Here is my Paladin build.. Its not a main class paladin however, but paladin spellcasting is not that good. It does fit the archetype. You can replace some of the feats such as last stand, etc with great strength but I liked the flavor and novelty of a character using these.

Hero of Ilmater - Paladin(5), Fighter(8), Weapon Master(7), Divine Champion(10)
Race: Aasimar
Alignment: Lawful good
Deity: Ilmater
PVM 1-30

EDM Weapon Masters:

Mithdradates: Shadow Knight - (Fighter 16, Paladin 5, Shadowdancer 2, Weapon Master 7) Click Here
SchnaKe: Dark Crippler - (Warlock 16, Fighter 4, Blackguard 3, Weapon Master 7) Click Here
Aekula: Ithil'kyw, the Underdread -(Fighter 14, Weapon Master 7, Frenzied Berserker 5, Blackguard 4) Click Here

Advantages
-Epic Divine Might
-Full BAB and Epic Weapon Focus + Epic Prowess
-Good Fortitude save possibly protected by Epic Resilience
-Crit Range and Multiple of WM + EDM
-Last Stand
-Rescue or as mentioned Epic Resilience (only 1 of 2)
-Able learner unlocks crossclassing for lowish int build

Disadvantages
-Stats ending on odd levels
-No spell casting

STR: 16(21)
DEX: 13
CON: 10
WIS: 10
INT: 13
CHA: 18(21)

{Darkvision, Skill Affinity (Listen), Skill Affinity (Spot), Celestial Resistance, Racial Spell (Light), Resist Cold, Resist Electrical, Resist Acid}

Bonusfeats: $: Fighter, %: Weapon Master, &: Divine Champion

Lvl 01: Fighter(1): Background: Natural Leader0, Able Learner, Power Attack $, {Tower Shield Proficiency}
Lvl 02: Fighter(2): Dodge $
Lvl 03: Fighter(3): Mobility
Lvl 04: Fighter(4): CHA+1, WF (Scimitar) $, (CHA=19)
Lvl 05: Paladin(1): {Smite Evil}
Lvl 06: Paladin(2): Spring Attack, {Divine Grace, Lay on Hands}
Lvl 07: Paladin(3): {Divine Health, Aura of Courage}
Lvl 08: Divine Champion(1): CHA+1, (CHA=20)
Lvl 09: Paladin(4): Divine Shield, {Turn Undead}
Lvl 10: Divine Champion(2): Blind-Fight &, {Sacred Defense}
Lvl 11: Divine Champion(3): {Smite Infidel}
Lvl 12: Paladin(5): STR+1, Divine Might, (STR = 17)
Lvl 13: Divine Champion(4): Combat Expertise &
Lvl 14: Fighter(5)
Lvl 15: Fighter(6): Great Fortitude, Whirlwind Attack $
Lvl 16: Weapon Master(1): STR+1, {Ki Damage}, (STR=18)
Lvl 17: Weapon Master(2)
Lvl 18: Weapon Master(3): Toughness
Lvl 19: Weapon Master(4)
Lvl 20: Weapon Master(5): STR+1, {Increased Multiplier, Superior Weapon Focus}, (STR=19)
Lvl 21: Divine Champion(5): Great Strength I, {Divine Wrath}, (STR=20)
Lvl 22: Divine Champion(6): Epic Prowess &
Lvl 23: Fighter(7): Epic Fortitude
Lvl 24: Fighter(8): STR+1, GWF (Scimitar) $, (STR=21)
Lvl 25: Divine Champion(7): Last Stand
Lvl 26: Divine Champion(8): Epic Toughness I &
Lvl 27: Divine Champion(9): Rescue (or epic resilience if your campaign DCs warrant)
Lvl 28: Divine Champion(10): CHA+1, EWF (Scimitar) &, (CHA = 21)
Lvl 29: Weapon Master(6): Epic Divine Might
Lvl 30: Weapon Master(7): {Ki Critical}


BAB: 30
Max. Melee AB: 40 (Scimitar), 1d6 +5; 15#-20 x3
*+7 Scimitar with other attributes
*+4 AB/damage via +8 Str girdle
*+18 divine damage with +7 CHA item multiplying on a crit
Max AB with gear: 51
# 13-20 threat range if keen

AC:
naked (10 +1 Tumble +1 DEX = 12)
Fullplate and Tower Shield (12+ 8 + 3 = 23)
Mithril Fullplate +7, Tower Shield +7, +8 DEX item, Deflection +7, Dodge +7, Natural Armor +7
(23 + 2 DEX + 7 Armor + 7 Shield + 7 Deflection + 7 Dodge +7 Natural Armor = 60)

Saving Throws (Fortitude/Reflex/Will): 32/21/17
+4 with +7 CHA item
+3 vs. Spells

Hitpoints: 360

Skillpoints: 99

Diplomacy(Di): 33(38), Intimidate(In): 4(9), Spellcraft(SC): 15(16), Spot(Sp): 16(18),
Tumble(Tu): 13(14), Use Magic Device(UMD): 16(21)

Another Paladin..... (post was getting too many characters long so a double)

Another Paladin:

Eleanore the Dragonhearted
Sorcerer(1), Paladin(9), Red Dragon Disciple(10), Divine Champion(10)

Race: Aasimar

A prodigy of her mother who was also a sorceress she grew up with the talent. Rejecting the ways of the word and will she waited outside the order of torm for 2 days with only water. The monks sent her away 3 times but still she remained. Finally the abott called her in and so the legend begins. A dark secret in her bloodline also lurked. Torn between her heritage as a descendent of a polymorphed Red Dragon and the faith of her calling she goes out into the world and discovers.

She discovers.....that she is a hell of a dragonslayer. Eventually killing defeating the red who has entangled her and used her as his pawn.

Similar Builds:

by Myself - Hero of Ilmater - (Paladin 5, Fighter 8, Weapon Master 7, Divine Champion 10)
(due to having a DC/Pal utilizing Last Stand Epic Resilience better AB less stats no Smite)

Tyr Templar - Sword of Tyr (Celestial Smiter)-(Paladin 15, Divine Champion 10, Red Dragon Disciple 4, Bard 1 or Sorcerer 1)

That build sites another by Tyr - Dragon Lance (Eye of Bahamut) - (Paladin 15, Red Dragon Disciple 10, Divine Champion 4, Bard or Sorcerer 1)

Advantages:

Charisma Focused Build:
Bonus to Saves fortified by Sacred defense Great fortitude line and Epic Resilience
Feint
UMD, Bluff, Diplomacy
Divine Wrath
Lay Hands
Great Smite 2 (3 uses: 2 Pal 1 DC)
Epic Divine Might
Divine Shield
Last Stand

RDD a power class

Disadvantages:

Lacks a high AB (not for PVP)
Weak Caster (but some is better than none)
Somewhat Diluted Stats by grabbing all the shiny (yet not that great) goodies when could be taking Great Strength or Charisma

Alignment: Lawful good
Deity: Torm

STR: 15(24)
DEX: 8
CON: 14(16)
WIS: 12
INT: 14(16)
CHA: 18(26)

{Darkvision, Skill Affinity (Listen), Skill Affinity (Spot), Celestial Resistance, Racial Spell (Light), Resist Cold, Resist Electrical, Resist Acid}

Bonusfeats: &: Divine Champion

Lvl 01: Sorcerer(1): Background: Tale-Teller0, Able Learner, {Summon Familiar}
Lvl 02: Paladin(1): {Smite Evil}
Lvl 03: Paladin(2): Power Attack
Lvl 04: Paladin(3): CHA+1, {Divine Grace, Lay on Hands}, (CHA=19)
Lvl 05: Paladin(4): {Divine Health, Aura of Courage}
Lvl 06: Paladin(5): Divine Shield, {Turn Undead}
Lvl 07: Red Dragon Disciple(1): {Natural Armor Increase}
Lvl 08: Red Dragon Disciple(2): CHA+1, {Dragon Abilities}, (STR=17), (CHA=20)
Lvl 09: Red Dragon Disciple(3): WF (Scimitar), {Dragon Breath}
Lvl 10: Red Dragon Disciple(4): (STR=19)
Lvl 11: Red Dragon Disciple(5): {Blind-Fight}
Lvl 12: Red Dragon Disciple(6): CHA+1, Toughness, (CON=16), (CHA=21)
Lvl 13: Red Dragon Disciple(7)
Lvl 14: Red Dragon Disciple(8): (INT=16)
Lvl 15: Paladin(6): Divine Might
Lvl 16: Divine Champion(1): CHA+1, (CHA=22)
Lvl 17: Divine Champion(2): Combat Expertise &, {Sacred Defense}
Lvl 18: Red Dragon Disciple(9): Feint
Lvl 19: Red Dragon Disciple(10): {Immunity To Sleep, Immunity to Paralysis, Immunity to Fire, Racial Spell (See Invisibility)}, (STR=23), (CHA=24)
Lvl 20: Divine Champion(3): CHA+1, {Smite Infidel}, (CHA=25)
Lvl 21: Divine Champion(4): Epic Divine Might, Epic Prowess &
Lvl 22: Divine Champion(5): {Divine Wrath}
Lvl 23: Divine Champion(6): Epic Resilience, Epic Toughness I &
Lvl 24: Divine Champion(7): CHA+1, (CHA=26)
Lvl 25: Divine Champion(8): Great Fortitude, Great Smiting I &
Lvl 26: Divine Champion(9)
Lvl 27: Divine Champion(10): Epic Fortitude, Great Smiting II & (or extra smiting)
Lvl 28: Paladin(7): STR+1, {Remove Disease}, (STR=24)
Lvl 29: Paladin(8): Last Stand
Lvl 30: Paladin(9)


BAB: 26
Max. Melee AB: 35/30/25/20/15/10 (Scimitar)
*+7 Scim.
*+8 Strength Belt (for 4 AB)
*True Strike
*Good Enough Feinter for OC to deny dodge AC and help allies

Damage: 1d6 + 7 (14 2handed) (17-20) x2
* +7 Insane Scimitar
* +8 STR item
* Epic Divine Might: 16 Divine Damage (24 with +8 CHA item)
* Great Smite twice per day for 3X (P + DC levels)
* Smite Infidel once per day for 3X (DC levels)
Add CHA bonus to AB on smites

Naked AC

10 +1 Tumble -1 DEX +4 RDD Nat Armor = 14

GEAR AC (Mitril Fullplate +7, Tower Shield +7, Dodge Boots +7, Natural Armor +7, Deflection +7, +8 DEX Item) = 64

Divine Shield for 8 AC (12 with +8 CHA item)
Combat Expertise for 3AC and -3 AB (+/-)

Spell Casting: Paladin(2), Sorcerer(1)
Detailed Spell Casting (Level 0-9): Sorcerer: 4/5 • 2/6, Paladin: 0 • 2 • 1

Saving Throws (Fortitude/Reflex/Will): 40/21/29
+4 vs Spells
no doubt he'll be sporting a CHA item
Divine Wrath gives +3 bonus
Epic Resilience

Hitpoints: 464
Lay on Hands for 19 x CHA bonus (152 normal 228 with +8 CHA item)
Last Stand for 20 d10 (110 average) Temporary Hitpoints lasting 8 rounds (12 with +8 CHA item) and applies to all companions

Skillpoints: 148

Bluff: 33(42), Diplomacy: 18(26), Lore: 8(12), Spellcraft: 30(33), Spot: 33(36), Tumble: 10(9), Use Magic Device: 16(24)

Edit:: sorceror spells could be protection alignment and/or grease. The protection alignment can be cast before putting armor on. Mithril fullplate its not impossible to cast a spell with tower shield swapped out (which you need because you should be able to switch to 2 handed grip). So as someone is charging you you can layer some grease. With your high saves and epic resilience you can't possibly fall and they may on a 1.

Claudius wrote:Scott, glad I checked in the forum. I can't wait to try your build and tactics. Never used evards tentacles before. Your build Sorcerer - OC Build (with MOTB conventions). | NWN2 Character Builder

Did you make any fun parties for SoZ?

I finally ended-up with two different "power" builds. The one mentioned before (in my "guide") with the 2 warlocks and another that focused on divine magic and bows. Of the two the latter was more powerful.

The real bonus was leveraging the dino pet for the divine magic + bow build. It was composed of *3* characters with dino pets and one mage-type for real power later in the game with a collection of scribed scrolls. It actually *dominated* the game. :mischief:

If you want I still have them on the builder site and can make them viewable if you are interested.