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*Vehemence see's Loner sitting by the window and runs up, pulling her out the window (nicely of course ). Vehemence takes loner to a shallow stream in a small forest area. Reaching down into the water, he takes out a small river pebble. Handing it to Loner. "This is you." he says. They both look back down to the stream with all the other pebbles. "Don't be afraid to get your feet wet." he continues as he urges her to throw her stone back into the water.

Originally posted by Waverly:
<STRONG>Err, even if storybook romance is just a myth, you can still spend some pleasant time with someone special…</STRONG>

Eh, well, I wouldn't know.

But I am sending my resume to Hallmark next week

Okay, now I'm really leaving. I don't want to depress this topic too much. I leave it to the dreamers of dreams. Like Vehemence

[ 06-30-2001: Message edited by: loner72 ]

Originally posted by loner72:
<STRONG>Eh, well, I wouldn't know.

But I am sending my resume to Hallmark next week

Okay, now I'm really leaving. I don't want to depress this topic too much. I leave it to the dreamers of dreams. Like Vehemence

[ 06-30-2001: Message edited by: loner72 ]</STRONG>

NEWS FLASH! NEWS FLASH! NEWS FLASH!

Loner72 joins convent and starts living a life of celebacy and spiritual fulfillment.

In other news, a band of rabid racoons terrorised a small park full of children today. A park ranger was called in and could only describe the situation as "horrific".

Originally posted by loner72:
<STRONG>Okay, now I'm really leaving. I don't want to depress this topic too much. I leave it to the dreamers of dreams. Like Vehemence

</STRONG>

Don't leave. I'm not quite Lonerized... but I'm not exactly starry eyed either. Different perspectives are appreciated.

[ 06-30-2001: Message edited by: Waverly ]

@Vehemence and Loner: I used to climb mountains I pretty much agree with Vehemence views here. Like climbing, passionate love is a risk taking, and it gives you a lot of thill but it can also end with severe injury. But I feel I would lose much more if I didn't even try. I think it's worth it, but I understand everybody does not.

There are many kinds of love, some last for a long time, some do not. The intense passion we feel when we first fall in love will not last (social psychology studies say it last at maximum 1-2 years) thus, I agree with Loner that love has to include more that romance and passion if we want it to last. Personally I think development, change and a conscious choice are all parts of long love.

*Loner looks out tower window. Nods to Waverly *

I'll pop back in every once in a while.

*Newspaper comes in through window.*

Hmmm...who said I joined a convent?

Originally posted by C Elegans:
<STRONG>Personally I think development, change and a conscious choice are all parts of long love.</STRONG>

Yes; and how is that accomplished when those cursed emotions keep getting in the way?? The whole mess is just so damn complicated...

C Elegans Warning:

Do not take anything this woman has to say about love at face value! In past posts, she has claimed to be married to a "head turner" and to have sex at least once per day. She is either lying or living in a situational extreme that skews the normal curve for the rest of us. (Can you say 'statistical outlier'?) You have been warned.

Originally posted by loner72:
<STRONG> Yes; and how is that accomplished when those cursed emotions keep getting in the way?? The whole mess is just so damn complicated...</STRONG>

Yes, I agree it's complicated and very messy...But emotions don't necessarily need to interfere with development and choice (although they often do!)
I think a key concept here is intergration, as opposed to internal conflict. We should try to make our intellectual values and our emotions more synchronised. (Am I a psychologist or what )

Don't listen do Gwalchmai, he's just trying to miscredit me because I revealed to everybody he has false teeth and has lost his hair

@GwalchMisfit: Hah! You are just making the infamous Ad Hominen fallacy - you try to make my points more false by attacking my person.


(Serious note: I've only been together with this headturner for 2 years - and he has brains and an interesting personality too.)

Originally posted by C Elegans:
<STRONG>@GwalchMisfit: Hah! You are just making the infamous Ad Hominen fallacy - you try to make my points more false by attacking my person.</STRONG>

When you have no basis for an argument, abuse the plaintiff. -Cicero

Originally posted by Waverly:
<STRONG>When you have no basis for an argument, abuse the plaintiff. -Cicero </STRONG>

I understand Cicero is your role model, WankySpanky. Why don't you go get yourself a brain, mr Invertebrae

According to the social psychology, in a conflict between logics v rhetorics, rhetorics mostly win

(ref: Aronson: The social animal, very good and entertaining basic text book about social psychology.)

EDIT: Gotta go now, what a coincidence

[ 06-30-2001: Message edited by: C Elegans ]

Originally by Loner:
But not before quoting the great Bessie Smith: "Lawd, a good man now'days sho' is hard to find."

----------------------

Can't remember who said this but:

"A hard man is good to find."

In all seriousness, I think that love (or lust????) is often what provides the stuff of life. This is not to say, that I'm a hapless romantic , far from it. Like anybody I've experienced more than my share of hurt and at times a convent of sorts has seemed attractive. But, having that kind of connection with somebody..............

Originally posted by dragon wench:<STRONG>But, having that kind of connection with somebody..............</STRONG>

.....feels marvelous, but is just waiting to become downright unbearable. Kind of like being flayed alive and convinced it's the best you've ever felt...

Look...I'm not saying the ideal wouldn't be nice. I'd love to have the ideal. Who wouldn't? But in my experience reality doesn't run that way.

@CE: I'd leave too if I had just flamed Waverly

I'm not the one named for a rather small, flacid invertibrate So much for your tall tales of marvelous sex

I do know what you mean Loner. For a long time committment of any description terrified me, I'd get so far into a relationship and then run hard in the opposite direction, not to mention fear of potential pain..... But then, much to my shock a summer fling with my housemate turned into a year, several years........Obviously, just like with most relationships, there have been bumps, but I can't say I have any regrets either. Of course, that doesn't mean that I don't periodically envy my single friends .

Originally posted by C Elegans:
<STRONG>Don't listen do Gwalchmai, he's just trying to miscredit me because I revealed to everybody he has false teeth and has lost his hair

@GwalchMisfit: Hah! You are just making the infamous Ad Hominen fallacy - you try to make my points more false by attacking my person.</STRONG>

I am not hardly trying to attack your person. I really do believe that you have wild, rutting bison-like sex every single day (despite the fact that I suggested that you may be a liar - that was a joke), but I would suggest that the reasons that you happen to have a very good relationship right now, and the methods you use to maintain them, might not work as well for others. I am merely cautioning Loner to consider the source when she listens to your advice. I thought it would be humorous, too!

But my main point (rather hidden) is that the fact that our resident Worm Woman is in a marriage relationship that puts bodice-ripping novels and porn fantasies alike to shame, is unfair to the rest of us. You have helped to set the bar too high. I think you have it made, - more power to you. I wish we could clone you. The only other time I have ever met an athletic, intelligent, energetic, and sexually unabashed woman, she turned out to be married.

Long term relationships are more about cultivating the more subtle emotions: trust, comfort, friendship, and commitment. Loner may be right, the hot emotions of lust and romance are more fleeting. Great to have them every once in a while, but not to be depended on. I think that C Elegans may be more the exception than the rule.

Having said that, CE is quite right. Any feeling of satisfaction or accomplishment, whether in relationships or in any other aspect of life, results from risk-taking. But risk is so hard when your most private emotions are all tied up in it. Asking a woman out on a date was so hard for me when I was younger, but I like to think it would be easier now that I have a better sense of who I am, greater comfort with myself (fortunately I don’t have to test this theory!). It is important to try not to define yourself through your relationship. Divorced of that baggage, it much easier to live in the moment, romance or love as you see fit, and live a happy life.

Originally posted by dragon wench:
<STRONG>Of course, that doesn't mean that I don't periodically envy my single friends .</STRONG>

I have noticed this: most girls I know in long-term relationships go on about how they miss being free and single (especially my housemate who harps on about how she "hates being in love" until I want to throttle her ), but the ones who have been single for a while usually want to be in the long-term relationships the rest of them are in. The grass is always greener...

Originally posted by Gwalchmai:
<STRONG>I am not hardly trying to attack your person. I really do believe that you have wild, rutting bison-like sex every single day (despite the fact that I suggested that you may be a liar - that was a joke) </STRONG>

Sweet Gwalchmai, I know you were joking I was joking too when I referred to the Ad Hominem, but for some reason it did not show well in my post. Maybe because I'm not a native English speaker, or maybe my kind of twisted and ironic humour is not always suitable for a text medium, you have to hear the intonation to understand it's a joke. This kind of thing happens to me every now and then, I make some kind of ironic joke, and the responder believes I'm offended or hurt. Actually, I was LMAO when I read your post (As I often do)

About me being I liar, I leave you and Waverly to this classic paradox statement: "I always lie"

<STRONG>
The only other time I have ever met an athletic, intelligent, energetic, and sexually unabashed woman, she turned out to be married. </STRONG>

To you, I hope?

<STRONG>I think that C Elegans may be more the exception than the rule. </STRONG>

Seriously speaking, I'm certainly a statistical outlier in some respects, but when it comes to views of relationships and sex, it's also very much a cultural thing. Sweden is, according to sociologic measurement, the most gender equal country in the world. Also, the general Swedish view of sex and the naked body is very liberal compared to for instance the US or the UK.

About my current relationship: Living in an extremly passionate and intense relationship is wonderful and very special, but no, I don't think it a rule, none of my previous relationships have been like this.

I've had good and bad relationships earlier, I've also been single for long periods. The only pattern I have discovered so far, is that the better I feel about myself and my life, the more I'm disposed towards romance. Also, the more men I meet who find me attractive. It's very much a question of confidence and view of oneself, I think.

<STRONG>
But risk is so hard when your most private emotions are all tied up in it. Asking a woman out on a date was so hard for me when I was younger <snip></STRONG>

Chosing to put yourself in a vulnerable position is very difficult and often involves having to cope with a lot of fears. Fear of rejection, abandonment and getting hurt are all parts of our normal and healthy self preservation. But sometimes it can result in a sort of lose/lose situation, which is very understandable, but may lead to getting stuck in a vicious circle. We can't chose if or when we are going to have passion and love, but we can chose to reject it. Either by taking caution in advance so we don't have to experince any risks, or by fleeing when we identify a risk.

But, we shall not forget that romance and traditional couple relationships are not the way to happiness. Some people chose to live as singles by rational choice because it suits them, and that does not mean they fear intimate relationships or can't get really happy. I believe the key question here is if you are chosing towards or away from something. Chosing to avoid things out of fear will create limits in your life. Chosing towards things you want to have, will not.

[ 06-30-2001: Message edited by: C Elegans ]

Originally posted by Waverly:
<STRONG>@CE: I'd leave too if I had just flamed Waverly
I'm not the one named for a rather small, flacid invertibrate So much for your tall tales of marvelous sex </STRONG>

(I forgot about my bl**dy username I knew I would regret the choice as soon as I met Waverly )


CE and her 1001 worm friends crawl into Waverly's nostrils.

Two hours later, nothing remains of Waverly's frontal lobes. CE and friends crawl out, eager to study the effect of this. Surprisingly, Waverly acts just like he always does He doesn't even seem to notice he has just lost his frontal lobes CE and friends crawl away disappointed


EDIT: (Why are the emoticons images placed in the end of the post, even if I paste them in the middle?)

[ 06-30-2001: Message edited by: C Elegans ]

Originally posted by C Elegans:
<STRONG>Sweet Gwalchmai, I know you were joking I was joking too when I referred to the Ad Hominem, but for some reason it did not show well in my post. Maybe because I'm not a native English speaker, or maybe my kind of twisted and ironic humour is not always suitable for a text medium, you have to hear the intonation to understand it's a joke. This kind of thing happens to me every now and then, I make some kind of ironic joke, and the responder believes I'm offended or hurt. Actually, I was LMAO when I read your post (As I often do)</STRONG>

Yes, I LOL at your posts as well. You see the thing is, I knew you were joking, and I knew you knew I was joking, and I knew that you knew that I knew you were joking, but I thought I might be wrong, maybe a little, so I tried to explain myself, while still joking, but I did it poorly, because my daughter was trying to get me to draw pictures with her, which doesn't really matter to the current situation, but I thought I would throw that in. In reality, I am jealous of the sex you are getting. I'm on the once-every-six-months schedule!
Your English writing skills are excellent.

<STRONG>About me being I liar, I leave you and Waverly to this classic paradox statement: "I always lie"</STRONG>

When I was a kid, we used to say, "Today is backwards day!"

<STRONG>To you, I hope?</STRONG>

NO, and we're not going to talk about it.

<STRONG>Sweden is, according to sociologic measurement, the most gender equal country in the world. Also, the general Swedish view of sex and the naked body is very liberal compared to for instance the US or the UK.</STRONG>

That does it, I'm moving to Sweden. Do you have a sister?

<STRONG>I've had good and bad relationships earlier, I've also been single for long periods. The only pattern I have discovered so far, is that the better I feel about myself and my life, the more I'm disposed towards romance. Also, the more men I meet who find me attractive. It's very much a question of confidence and view of oneself, I think.</STRONG>

She's human!
If it helps, I imagine you to be very attractive. Actually I imagine ALL the women on this forum to be extremely good looking. For some odd reason, I also imagine the men to be rather handsome as well. This worries me about myself....

<STRONG>I believe the key question here is if you are chosing towards or away from something. Chosing to avoid things out of fear will create limits in your life. Chosing towards things you want to have, will not.</STRONG>

I agree.

@CE A lobotomy? No thanks, I already have one