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And it is this originality that has been "created"to make sure he would be succesfull.

Don't get me wrong, I like most of his songs. But he is made up by marketing people, like many many more so called artists out there.

Hes the only one brave enough to tell off famous people he doesnt like at a constant rate. He certainly knows how to make enemies, I think. I dont know why, but I like the song "Without Me" (Most recent hit), and his videos are so stupid they are funny.

I am with Rob on this one, Eminem seems to be a pop entity to me, when you see proper Hip Hop artists (I am sure Frogus could name a few) then you will see the difference, Eminem is an interesting and amusing creation, but he isn't a true artist by any means.

Oh and his hard knox life that he apparently had...well he didn't, he quite often spent time in suburbia...

He provokes these people on perpose.
It's a bad boy thing for his image. It gets him (free) publicity.
He probably never met most of the people he insults. But insulting them for their music is easy.

It's all marketing...

It can get bad when the only thing you do to get publicity is to do negative things. There are thousands of examples out there..... So why cant I think of any other specific ones?

I can't think of any neither...

Well, in they eye of the morale public, most of his actions are negative.
But the people he tries to reach with his music and actions love it. It's a part of his bad boy image.

I thought of an example:
Kevin Harvick in NASCAR. While I dont believe he is a bad person, he likes to push the boundaries of rules. He has gotten into a couple of fights on the track and he has even been suspended from a race due to his mis-behavior. I think this is one big reason why he liked among some fans in NASCAR. Because he is the only one in NASCAR in the last 5 years to be suspended from a race due to misbehavior.

And what about Dennis Rodman. I dont think I need to explain his situations. He likes to get into trouble and he became mildly popular based on these actions.

I'm off, nice talking with you Tybaltus.

Ok, beiing suspended for 5 year means he won't make (most) of his normal payment. So that wasn't so smart of him.

And about Rodman... well you said it yourself. Would he be an as popular basketballer without the hair etc.? (and popular => money )

OK, Rob-hin, see you later

Ok, beiing suspended for 5 year means he won't make (most) of his normal payment. So that wasn't so smart of him.

No, he wasnt suspended for 5 years, he was the first to be suspended in the last 5 years (No one else has ever been suspended in that time). He was only suspended for 1 race, but thats enought to get the point across.

Now now, I think we are all getting a bit cynical...sure Eminem's music is popular, but it sure as hell aint 'pop' . If you want me to name a 'real' hiphop artist, here's one - Dr. Dre. He is as real as they come. He was on Death Row (records ) until Suge went down for starting the ruck in which Tupac was killed...he is not the product of a massive record company. The thing which I think we are all thinking, but trying not to say, in favour of possibly more impressive arguments is this:

Eminem is bollocks. His music is so bad it makes me cry.

"I am with Rob on this one, Eminem seems to be a pop entity to me, when you see proper Hip Hop artists (I am sure Frogus could name a few) then you will see the difference, Eminem is an interesting and amusing creation, but he isn't a true artist by any means.

Oh and his hard knox life that he apparently had...well he didn't, he quite often spent time in suburbia..."


Proper Hip Hop artists like who? The pop entertainers most of you are probably farmiliar with? Like Nelly, Puffy, Bad Boy records, Jigga now, Mystikal, Silk ODB, Master P, Lil Kim, yada yada or artists? Illmatic nas, reasonable doubt jay z, biggie, pac, nature, mobb deep, mos def, russel simmons old label, qb's finest, uc underground, south bronx and brooklyn cats old school cats afrikaan bambada, roots, t. squad crhis rios, the whole nine, AZ, (goes on forever this isn't even going back one year)?What difference will I see?

I will see a difference in style but not in credibility. Anyone in the hip hop world will tell you eminem is no joke, even the haters. cuz he does have credibility and he does bring something new to the table. i've been listening to hip hop since i was eight yo 18 years ago i know the difference b/t wanna bes and entertainers and artists. why do you think your boy v.i. never made it? it sounds like your describing him, where his managers manufacutred his image. he was from a hood in texas but they told him he was from miami. his neighborhood had street credibility but they had to go lie about it. where do you see that with marshall mathers? he makes no lies about where he is from or his experiences.

i hear a lot of this from people who really know nothing about the culture or the gaps between those who make it and those who don't or the problems involved with gaining popular attention while maintaining street credibility. like it or not that kid has done both. it cracks me up when folks who don't even listen to hip hop music start spoutin off about crap cuz they see someone on mtv or the cover of 17 magazine and hear producers and artists talk and think they can form abn opinion. from a writers perspective eminem broings something new to the table: no one was spittin the ill sh*t that he's been triple platinum off of twice before he did it. you think he'd be on life after death with biggy talking about how he had sex with your dead girlfriend if bad boy didn't give him props? or murder jay-z on jay-z's own track if rockafella didn't hink he was nice? or bang with i.c.p. or rucus? or flow with missy on pop joints? plus straight up brought d12 with him too? articles left and right in the source and vibe about his life? he gets his propers straight up and down from everyone in the industry who matters. it's funny how the only people who diss him are moms for america and dave mathews band-listening posers who think they should have an opinion.

obviously he reached people. straight up he reached me. fed up don't give a f*ck dudes with ambition and anger. he doesn't touch the complacent philosphers who dabble...only the real can relate.

and the suburbia to which you're referring is a bunch of trailer parks by the way. what suburbia do you come from? what the f*ck you think "compton" or "crenshaw" is? i only say compton and crenshaw cuz you've probably seen boys in the hood or listened to nwa or whatever it is nine out of ten people who have half ****ed opinions about the headbanging world get their info from...

Originally posted by ILL WILL
Like Nelly, Puffy, Bad Boy records, Jigga now, Mystikal, Silk ODB, Master P, Lil Kim, yada yada or artists? Illmatic nas, reasonable doubt jay z, biggie, pac, nature, mobb deep, mos def, russel simmons old label, qb's finest, uc underground, south bronx and brooklyn cats old school cats afrikaan bambada, roots, t. squad crhis rios, the whole nine, AZ

Now aren't you all impressed?

only the real can relate

More importantly, what are 'the real' doing playing Dungeons & Dragons games on the PC?

Apparently.

Sorry Ill Will but most of that almost sounds like self satirising, so your saying he is real, i have listened to some of Eminem's stuff, i am just not impressed, he seems to say things just to shock.

Maybe i am wrong, maybe my opinions are just those of someone who doesn't have a clue about what it means to be real but i just plain don't like his music or his voice.

Common, now there is someone with some soul I don't care if his beats aren't hard, or his ladies aren't loose or his bling bling isn't exceptionally shiny, he just appeals to me.

Proper Hip Hop artists like who? The pop entertainers most of you are probably farmiliar with? Like Nelly, Puffy, Bad Boy records, Jigga now, Mystikal, Silk ODB, Master P, Lil Kim, yada yada or artists? Illmatic nas, reasonable doubt jay z, biggie, pac, nature,

Hardly, they are just more of the same in my opinion.

mobb deep, mos def, afrikaan bambada, roots

That's more like it, at least they stand for something, at least they have some kind of message.

I watched a documentary on his mom, she claims (with the help of others) that they spent a great deal of time in quite a few suburban towns, i know he moved around a lot, but not all of it was trailer towns.

Would you calm down Ill Will, there is no need to get annoied, this is just a discussion.

*is suddenly consumed with doubt and embarrasment*

Waidasecund...so was that a joke? Aaaaagggh! I suddenly see this guy going the way of AR...

EDIT - @Sleep are you acusing 2Pac of not standing for anything and not having a message?

Personally, I'd say more rappers are more credible than you give them credit for...Tupac et al are not just corporate-controlled puppet ****ies...but they never ever could rock like Nina Simone...

Everyone stay civil please, everyone is entitled to their opinions. And watch the language, filter avoidance is still against the rules.

Yeah Mr. Sleep there's no disrespect intended to you there's just a difference b/t not liking someone's music and making a statement about his credibility (which is what you were doing). I doubt eminem could come on here and evaluate anyone's ability to recall a saving throw or whatever without ever having played the game and we're talking about the man's life based on a documentary someone saw about his mom? And since when is eminem about bling? And how can you like mobb deep if you don't like negativity? You listen to what Prodigy says? It's hard to post an example given the forum but I dedicate my days to seeing you drip blood is a good example so's whatcha know about the turmoil whathca know about the blood soil clothes and little hoes with their legs and pants slugged cracked up shin bones. And speaking of credibility prodigy 's from lefrak city and not qb but he's on qb's tip. does that make him less credible? And I'm not even gonna say anything to the kid who knows who suge knight is, frogus or whatever...he can have a popsicle and a vanilla coke on me.

And I'm calmed down

Originally posted by frogus
EDIT - @Sleep are you acusing 2Pac of not standing for anything and not having a message?

Personally, I'd say more rappers are more credible than you give them credit for...Tupac et al are not just corporate-controlled puppet ****ies...but they never ever could rock like Nina Simone...

Erm , maybe i should have edited that one out Although i rate his movie career a lot higher than his Rap career.

I like the reference To be honest, i get tired of hip hop, i was following it quite closely for a while, but i guess i have become a fuddy duddy

Don't worry @Sleep. Wagner is cool if you think he's cool.

Originally posted by ILL WILL
Yeah Mr. Sleep there's no disrespect intended to you there's just a difference b/t not liking someone's music and making a statement about his credibility (which is what you were doing).

The problem for me is that i don't rate Eminems music and because his image is portrayed on MTV practically every time i turn to 440 i kind of have to go on appearence alone, if i rated his skills or the music that backs him then maybe i would see past the image to the real depth there.

Oh and i also don't like Dre's method of music making, it just doesn't appeal to me, i never did get NWA either, i like fat beats but i also quite appreciate a little soul in the lyric...perhaps hip hop isn't what i am looking for Although the recent track produced by Fusion was truly excellent...frogus care to tell me who the MC was?