Mental Attributes & Damage

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Tricky
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Mental Attributes & Damage

Postby Tricky » Sat May 19, 2012 6:19 am

Strength increases the amount of damage you do with physical attack. Plain and simple. Nothing really seems to point at mental attributes having a similar effect on some of the disciplines. The main ones are Intelligence and Wits, in particular for the Thaumaturgy paths. They only seem to use them as a requirement for certain disciplines, to unlock their use.

Does anyone know for sure if Intelligence and Wits can actually enhance the damage effects of offensive disciplines such as call lightning, hands of destruction, cauldron of blood, etc?
[INDENT][SIZE="1"][font="Courier New"]'..[color="White"]t[/color]olerance w[color="White"]h[/color]en fog rolls in clouds unfold your selfless wings fe[color="White"]a[/color]thers [color="White"]t[/color]hat float from arabesque pillows I sold to be consumed by the [color="White"]s[/color]now white cold if only the plaster could hold withstand the flam[url="http://bit.ly/foT0XQ"]e[/url] then this fountain torch [color="White"]w[/color]ould know no shame and be outstripped only by the sun that burns with the glory and [color="White"]h[/color]onor of [color="White"]y[/color]our..'[/font][/size][/INDENT]

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Postby Tricky » Mon May 21, 2012 3:24 pm

I've tested level 1 Cauldron of Blood at 50 and at 89 intelligence. At 50 int, it took about 5-6 discipline uses to kill a civilian. At 89 int, effectually a 78% increase, it didn't really take me any less casts or less blood to kill the same civilian.

I will try it again once I get the Lure of Flames tome, but it will take a few days for me to get there. With lower int for comparison (I had to try out 50 int because Cauldron of Blood has that for a minimum requirement) it should be easier to notice a difference.

Consequences if mental attribute scores have no effect on 'magic' damage:
- There will be no use raising any of the mental attribute scores above their respective discipline's minimum requirements.
- There will be no use buying amulets / rings / other jewelry that increase these attribute scores. Jewelry decreasing blood consumption *probably* would be your best bet, unless you wanted to maybe create some kind of hybrid ranged/melee + magic build. Then dexterity, constitution or strength increasing jewelry might still be worth looking into.
[INDENT][SIZE="1"][font="Courier New"]'..[color="White"]t[/color]olerance w[color="White"]h[/color]en fog rolls in clouds unfold your selfless wings fe[color="White"]a[/color]thers [color="White"]t[/color]hat float from arabesque pillows I sold to be consumed by the [color="White"]s[/color]now white cold if only the plaster could hold withstand the flam[url="http://bit.ly/foT0XQ"]e[/url] then this fountain torch [color="White"]w[/color]ould know no shame and be outstripped only by the sun that burns with the glory and [color="White"]h[/color]onor of [color="White"]y[/color]our..'[/font][/size][/INDENT]

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Postby GawainBS » Tue May 22, 2012 9:41 am

If most of the game wasn't such a grind, this kind of research would make me play it again.

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Postby Tricky » Tue May 22, 2012 4:09 pm

I was having a conversation about that very thing with someone who wrote one of the gamefaqs guides. I think the beauty in this lies, in true P&P style, with storytelling technique. You grind a bit, but you always get some nice little story sequence for it in return. It's positively charming, I can think of no better word for it. Every once in a great while I find myself drawn back to Redemption, this time due to an influx of news regarding the WoD MMO, and it never fails to charm me all over again. It does that a lot better that some not so old games that rely heavily on storytelling techniques. The machinima too is completely touching, especially for its time.

~

Anyway, I decided today that it was in everybody's best interest if I just got this over with as soon as possible. I pushed on to Vienna and got the Lure of Flames tome. I successfully tested Level 1 Fireball at 35 and at 100 int. The result? No difference at all. Nada. I was actually surprised how many fireballs girl-with-bucket could take, regardless of my Int levels.

- There will be no use raising any of the mental attribute scores above their respective discipline's minimum requirements.
- There will be no use buying amulets / rings / other jewelry that increase these attribute scores. Jewelry decreasing blood consumption *probably* would be your best bet, unless you wanted to maybe create some kind of hybrid ranged/melee + magic build. Then dexterity, constitution or strength increasing jewelry might still be worth looking into.


[color="White"]All true.[/color] Since I have tried this out for two completely different disciplines (blood magic and path of flames), I am confident the same is also true for more canon-breaking[color="White"]*[/color] disciplines such as Mortis.

I ended up buying some discipline bracelets/amulets. I recall doing this before and boringly enough it still seems like the best way to go.

[SIZE="1"][color="White"]*[/color]I prefer to give Kristof only blood magic/paths since they could theoretically be learned by any kindred (the Tremere are just darned reluctant to share). Kristof learning Mortis would break canon since vampires cannot simply adopt disciplines from outside of their own bloodline without committing diablerie (then again this game does not stop you from diablerizing an entire Setite sect either, so it's really up in the air). Blood magic would be the one exception since it is rooted in scholarly tradition rather than an inherited, supernatural power. I know far too much about this without ever having played the P&P than is good for me. :( [/size]
[INDENT][SIZE="1"][font="Courier New"]'..[color="White"]t[/color]olerance w[color="White"]h[/color]en fog rolls in clouds unfold your selfless wings fe[color="White"]a[/color]thers [color="White"]t[/color]hat float from arabesque pillows I sold to be consumed by the [color="White"]s[/color]now white cold if only the plaster could hold withstand the flam[url="http://bit.ly/foT0XQ"]e[/url] then this fountain torch [color="White"]w[/color]ould know no shame and be outstripped only by the sun that burns with the glory and [color="White"]h[/color]onor of [color="White"]y[/color]our..'[/font][/size][/INDENT]

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Postby GawainBS » Tue May 22, 2012 4:15 pm

Wasn't Charisma used to determine prices?

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Postby Tricky » Wed May 23, 2012 1:10 am

Only Manipulation. I think this is also true for Bloodlines. At any rate, I had to verify it because I wasn't sure anymore myself. It's been a few years since my last playthrough.

Intelligence and Appearance don't have any secondary use beyond 'unlocking' certain disciplines. Evidence points against them making their respective disciplines more powerful.
Wits has some use because it decreases frenzy rating (which is kind of pointless if you're making a mage that rarely gets into close combat).
[INDENT][SIZE="1"][font="Courier New"]'..[color="White"]t[/color]olerance w[color="White"]h[/color]en fog rolls in clouds unfold your selfless wings fe[color="White"]a[/color]thers [color="White"]t[/color]hat float from arabesque pillows I sold to be consumed by the [color="White"]s[/color]now white cold if only the plaster could hold withstand the flam[url="http://bit.ly/foT0XQ"]e[/url] then this fountain torch [color="White"]w[/color]ould know no shame and be outstripped only by the sun that burns with the glory and [color="White"]h[/color]onor of [color="White"]y[/color]our..'[/font][/size][/INDENT]

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Postby GawainBS » Wed May 23, 2012 3:01 am

Bloodlines resembles P&P a lot more, and Manipulation (IIRC) contributes to Haggling, which in turn influences prizes.

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Postby Tricky » Wed May 23, 2012 3:05 am

Exactly.
[INDENT][SIZE="1"][font="Courier New"]'..[color="White"]t[/color]olerance w[color="White"]h[/color]en fog rolls in clouds unfold your selfless wings fe[color="White"]a[/color]thers [color="White"]t[/color]hat float from arabesque pillows I sold to be consumed by the [color="White"]s[/color]now white cold if only the plaster could hold withstand the flam[url="http://bit.ly/foT0XQ"]e[/url] then this fountain torch [color="White"]w[/color]ould know no shame and be outstripped only by the sun that burns with the glory and [color="White"]h[/color]onor of [color="White"]y[/color]our..'[/font][/size][/INDENT]

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Postby solinvictus » Sun Aug 05, 2012 1:03 am

Just did some tests and it seems the social attributes affect the "resist chance" of related disciplines.

Character Clan: Ventrue (multiplayer) Gen: 9 Target: NYC Cop
Awe -Presence 1- Level 1 - 25 Charisma (Min for Awe)
Total uses: 45 Success: 30 Resist: 14 Fail: 1 --- 66% Success Rate

Awe -Presence 1- Level 5 - 25 Charisma
Total Uses: 71 Success: 45 Resist: 26 Fail: 0 --- 63% Success Rate
** Disregard the 3% difference since the sample is small. So discipline level doesn't affect resist chance (Changes duration though).

Awe -Presence 1- Level 5 - 100 Charisma
Total Uses: 59 Success: 55 Resist: 3 Fail: 1 --- 93% Success Rate
** Despite the small sample, the difference is too much to ignore.

I'm not sure if it works the same way for damaging disciplines, I tried fireball and immolate from Lure of the Flames but the targets didn't resist at all (though I had some failed attempts). Thought it might decrease the resistance enemies had perhaps, but still the damage wasn't any different. So I guess this is for non-damaging disciplines only.

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Postby Tricky » Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:01 am

Thanks, that's a pretty good post. I should have checked the Domination / Awe abilities also.
solinvictus wrote:I'm not sure if it works the same way for damaging disciplines, I tried fireball and immolate from Lure of the Flames but the targets didn't resist at all (though I had some failed attempts). Thought it might decrease the resistance enemies had perhaps, but still the damage wasn't any different. So I guess this is for non-damaging disciplines only.

I'm not sure about creatures, but the Tremere have a couple of spells that add elemental resistance. It's not something you'll come across a lot during the OC, so I wouldn't mind it much.
[INDENT][SIZE="1"][font="Courier New"]'..[color="White"]t[/color]olerance w[color="White"]h[/color]en fog rolls in clouds unfold your selfless wings fe[color="White"]a[/color]thers [color="White"]t[/color]hat float from arabesque pillows I sold to be consumed by the [color="White"]s[/color]now white cold if only the plaster could hold withstand the flam[url="http://bit.ly/foT0XQ"]e[/url] then this fountain torch [color="White"]w[/color]ould know no shame and be outstripped only by the sun that burns with the glory and [color="White"]h[/color]onor of [color="White"]y[/color]our..'[/font][/size][/INDENT]