Advice needed: Sorcerer Spell Selection

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Ajax
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Advice needed: Sorcerer Spell Selection

Postby Ajax » Wed Mar 21, 2001 10:14 am

I have decided to start a new game as an sorcerer. I have completed almost all of the average quests in chapter two, and in one game I made it through the Asylum. From my experience I know what to expect and when to expect it, but for those adventures yet to come I am unsure of how to prepare my character. Since spell selection is so important, I am asking the advice of those who have completed the game to which spells are the most advantageous at the different level changes of my character. I have read the solo sorcerer strat guide, but as I plan to bring along NPCs in my adventure, many of the advised spells can be cast by other characters. What I am looking for my character to have is flexibility to deal with different situations both in and out of combat.

Level 7 (Character Generation)
1st - Chromatic Orb
1st - Magic Missile
1st - Identify
1st - Shield
1st - Friends
2nd - Melf's Acid Arrow
2nd - Mirror Image
2nd - Web
3rd - Haste
3rd - Dispel Magic

For me the 3rd level selections are the hardest. Passing up the damage spells for Haste and Dispel is hard to do. Otherwise I think I have a pretty good selection of spells.

Level 8
4th - Stoneskin

Level 9
2nd - Detect Invisibility
3rd - Spell Thrust
4th - Polmorph Self

Level 10
5th - Spell Immunity

Never used this spell much, does it help against monster innate abilities like an umber hulk's confusion attack?

Level 11
2nd - Invisibility
3rd - Melf's Minute Meteors
4th - Minor Sequencer
5th - Breach

Level 12
6th - Improved Haste

Level 13
4th - Improved Invisibility
5th - Lower Resistance
6th - Contingency

Level 14
7th - Project Image

Level 15
5th - Spell Shield
6th - True Sight
7th - Spell Sequencer

Level 16
8th - Simulacrum

Level 17
7th Mordenkainen's Sword
8th Symbol Stun

All opinions welcomed. Thanks in advance for all your help.

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Edwin
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Postby Edwin » Wed Mar 21, 2001 10:26 am

I think minor sequencer is not so useful.
As 7th, take limited wish (maybe it's 8th, don't remember now...), so that you can cast 9th lvl spells with a 7th lvl Image
don't take spell sequencer.

Spell immunity could be very useful, but not vs Humber Hulk.....

PS: don't forget to take a look at my post for the Brotherhood.... Image Image (propaganda....)


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Postby nael » Wed Mar 21, 2001 10:35 am

i would get Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting early on. good area damage, btu only effects enemies.
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Postby Kovi » Wed Mar 21, 2001 11:24 am

I think you plan to use the sorcerer to support the (fighter) team and cause havoc to enemy and brought down the defenses of enemy spellcasters. You wisely left out area damage spells which would hurt the party. It is also important to have many party enhancement spells (or at least enhancement which could cast on other members) instead of self enhancement.
Probably I would leave out Polymorh Self, Spell Shield, Contingency, Spell Sequencer and replace them with Greater Malison, Chaos, Improved Haste, Limited Wish or Ruby Ray.
Probably you will have clerics which could cast some of the spells "cheaper": Dispel Magic, True Sight. Instead you can use Invisibility 10' and Death Spell.

[This message has been edited by Kovi (edited 03-21-2001).]

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Postby Genesis » Wed Mar 21, 2001 11:27 am

If you like i can send you my solo sorcerer final save before i beat the crap outta irenicus...I think my spellbook was more than adequate for all fights...so long as you know the enemy...let me know.

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Postby Ajax » Wed Mar 21, 2001 12:53 pm

@ Edwin: Point taken with Spell Sequencer, I didn't go with Limited Wish because wisdom would be the 4th ability to try and raise and didn't think it would be all that high, but your right its just too useful a spell to pass up. But, do I want to take LW b4 Project Image?

I do have some questions now about PI. Does the image deplete the spells of my hidden sorcerer? Will the copy have my innate abilities? Depending on the answers, I may know which 7th level spell to take first.

About Minor Sequencer: Haven't played with it much, but this spell appeals to me a lot. Throwing 10 MMs at once or doubling my chances of a missed save with CO works for me. Plus the advantages of increasing the number of offensive spells a Simulacrum can throw is more useful than the Confusion spell that I would replace MS with.

Now I also have some questions about Simulacrum. Image Is the 60% rounded down? Does the computer remember what spells I had at 9th or 10th level, or can I cast all of my know spells at 16th level, just less often?

Well since this is really my first true attempt at a long running mage game, I think my presence would not particularly enhance the standing of your Mage Guild. I may seek you out later once I have gotten use to being all I can be as a sorcerer. Thanks

@nael: Your right ADHW is the way to go, I just never imagined casting any other 8th spell other than Simulacrum. I planned to reserve ADHW to be used from a scroll cast by the Simulacrum more so than the actual character. But the extra damage of an original casting will be more useful than a Stun if and when I cast another 8th level spell. Thanks

@Kovi: Thanks, I really don't know what role my character will take on in the middle and late game, hence the post. You have given me more to think about before I take the plunge. I fell in love with PolyS during one of my mage games. The jelly combos were fun, especially against other spell slingers, and I thought the Troll regen would save on healing spells and potions. As far as priestly Dispells and True Sight, I think the real power of the sorcerer is to deal with problems if and when they happen. I really want to avoid prepping my spell books with spells that will be useful for the next engagement. Still I will take another look at the party as a whole to see what's best for the sorcerer. Thanks.

@Genesis: No thanks, about the only useful info I could get from your character is what equipment might otherwise negate the need to know a particular spell. I think I have taken all the items into account, but I might have missed something. If I have let me know. Shield would be about the only possibility that I can think of since by the mid game I should have equal or better AC, but in the early game it will help a lot, so imho its worth the memorization over the other 1st level spells.

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Postby fable » Wed Mar 21, 2001 1:11 pm

A few notes, just personal observations:

Avoid Identify. Why spend valuable spell points learning something which can be purchased on a pair of eyeglasses, and cast 3 times a day? Buy the glasses.

Avoid Friends. Perfectly useless spell, when some of the earliest quests gift you with a Ring that automatically raises charisma to 18. Besides, some of your team mates will have charismatic personalities.

You're right to pass up Fireball and Lightning Bolt. Sell those wands of both spells that you picked up in the first dungeon to a common merchant (*not* the Adventurer's Mart or the Copper Coronet), then get a good thief to steal 'em back with full charges.

Hope that helps.
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Postby Genesis » Wed Mar 21, 2001 1:17 pm

Well maybe if i told you the spells i used a lot in my experience as a sorcerer...that might help.

1. Skeletal Warrior (this is a sorcerers best friend, they are almost guaranteed to kill any mage and are almost impossible to be turned against you)

2. Invisibility (the level 2 one, bcos you can cast a lot of it and if you fight a monster that can see through this then they can also see through the higher level one)

3. Stoneskin (no need to explain this one)

4. Lower Resistance (needed for dragons,irenicus in slayer form, and some other baddies)

5. morkadania sword (these guys hasted, make short work of most foes you will love them against Balor)

6. Blur (the bonus +3 to saving throws is nice)

7. Horrid wilting (awesome damage spell that only hits enemies. The make short work of the rakshakas that were attempting to beat the crap outta priestess Demin).

8. Summon earth elemental ( i liked this because they could take out clay golems while the golems attacked a morkadianan sword to no avail, only prob is the 15% probability of them turning on you, i never had a problem with that though...just save before summoning, PS hasted they are deadly...

6. Summon Fiend (this one is nice against mages and rakshakas...they hit hard and often...just make sure to be protected from evil)

7. Spider spawn (this guys are cannon fodder, send them forward to absorb mage death spells before sending in the real guys (skeletal warriors etc).

8. Skull trap ( i loved this spell especially at low to mid levels for take out multiple enemies in one shot..just be careful where you stand when it goes off).

With these you can add whatever else you feel like and you should be ok.

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Postby Ajax » Thu Mar 22, 2001 10:22 am

OK after all your advice, and some play testing last night I have reconfigured my spell selections

** ** indicates changes

Level 7 (Character Generation)
1st - Chromatic Orb
1st - Magic Missile
1st - Identify
1st - Friends
1st - **Sleep**
2nd - Melf's Acid Arrow
2nd - Mirror Image
2nd - Web
3rd - Haste
3rd - **Remove Magic**

Since Jahiera is going to be on my team, she will keep Barkskins running until there is enough money to purchase the Bracers AC 3, so shield will not be needed. The sleep will at the very least let my thieves run amuck in homes without fear of reprisals.

Even with the eyeglasses I think I'll still keep the Identify. I may know what those blue items are, but from a roleplaying standpoint I won't use an item until its identified. At the beginning of chapter one I'll have some 10+ unidentified items. I don't want to haul some of that stuff around just so I can use my charges effectively.

Friends will likely be kept as well. I didn't get a chance to conduct a test to confirm this, but even with the RoHI, I can make my Char 24 by casting Friends. The book only gives the discount % up to Char 20, but if I remember right from BG1, the %'s do continue to increase up to 25.

I haven't completely closed the book on first level spells, so if I'm missing something, let me know.

The replacement of Dispell Magic with Remove Magic seemed practical since it's strength is level based and Edwin will likely be doing other things with his 3rd level spells. The other multi classed casters can reserve one slot for Dispell and back each other up in case one becomes held or whatever.

Level 8
4th - Stoneskin

Level 9
2nd - **Blur**
3rd - Spell Thrust
4th - **Greater Malison**

Again, since Detect Invisibility isn't level based I'll have someone else keep one on hand. Blur is effective at all levels and will let one of my frontline warriors to wear the Cloak of Displacement.

PolySelf is replaced with Greater Malison since its always a good idea to lower the enemies saves in conjunction with other spell casters. I can still use the PolySelf abilities with the Cloak of the Sewers and get an AC bonus.

Level 10
5th - Spell Immunity

Level 11
2nd - Invisibility
3rd - Melf's Minute Meteors
4th - ** Improved Invisibility **
5th - Breach

Level 12
6th - Improved Haste

Level 13
4th - ** Minor Sequencer **
5th - Lower Resistance
6th - ** Chain Lightning **

Still like Minor Sequencer, but since it won't be put to full use until Project Image comes around it can wait the two levels.

Chain Lightning replaces Contingency, one of the early "only hits enemies" spells which will be put into good use with the up coming Project Image.

Level 14
7th - Project Image !!!

For those of you who don't know this is one kick arse spell. If your hidden scout finds an enemy, fire this puppy up a short distance away, kick in the permanent sequencer of Blur and Mirror Image, walk up to the enemies and start unloading your offensive spells. The best part is that it will not deplete your character of his spells. Also I'm not positive about this, but not only is the Image a walking HP decoy, it may be immune to some spells since your character will be out of range.

Level 15
5th - ** Chaos**
6th - **Death Spell**
7th - **Limited Wish**

Even though Chaos won't defeat large enemy groups by itself, it may give my group the edge to defeat them all the same. Add to it that it's duration is level based makes this spell best suited for the single classed sorcerer.

Death Spell replaces True Sight which can be cast by the party cleric. I may pick TS up again in the expansion, but there is more useful spells for now. Even though DS is a more powerful spell than ChainL, I wanted my Project Images to dish out damage regardless of level.

Limited Wish just has too many options to pass up that will aid the party in one way or another.

Level 16
8th - **Abi-Dalzim's Horrid Wilting**

This high damage spell comes before Simulacrum because my Project Images will be able to cast this powerful spell and the Simulacrum will not (at least from memory and with full level 16 effect).

Level 17
7th - Mordenkainen's Sword
8th - **Simulacrum**

Like Project Image, Simulacrum will not deplete your character's spells. Also it will have all known 5th level and lower level spells available, just will only be able to cast them less times since he is a level 10 caster.

Let me know what you think of the changes. I expect to start playing with this guy tomorrow night. Thanks for all the advice.

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Postby Genesis » Thu Mar 22, 2001 10:26 am

Just so you know...Project image and Similacrum are not as effective without Wizard Eye because they are considered summoned creature and cannot see the map if you walk out of your party's vision range with them.

In my opinion leave similacrum out...Project image is way more powerful and you can cast it a lot more than similacrum

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Postby Mythalos » Thu Mar 22, 2001 11:30 am

I would most definitely pick up Blur. No matter what your present A.C. is blur will reduce it by 3 down to the max -10 A.C.
Also I am not sure if you chose this or not but greater malison is a must spell since it WILL allow you to effect high level characters and monsters with much greater ease. With this spell I have been able to hold a lich(took me over 10 reloads but it worked none-the-less).

Mythalos

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Postby Kovi » Thu Mar 22, 2001 12:08 pm

For me it seems a very strong repertoire.
Yes, Project Image IS powerful. You can cast SI: Divination so it cannot be dispelled with true sight. And as you have a normal party you don't need Wizard Eye. Otherwise I agree with Genesis, if you use Project Image with full power you can leave out Simulacrum.

Anyway Project Image is flawed and IMHO too powerful, see thread: [url="http://www.gamebanshee.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/002732.html"]http://www.gamebanshee.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/002732.html[/url]

[This message has been edited by Kovi (edited 03-22-2001).]

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Postby Garcia » Fri Mar 23, 2001 2:18 am

can it really be that I didn't see a fireball in your spell selection Ajax Image
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Postby Pe Ell » Fri Mar 23, 2001 3:03 am

Dont bother to take chain lightning, the spell is crap anyway. I sudgest you take some protection spells like spell deflection/prot. from magical energy or perhaps pierce magic instead.

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