Potions and loot

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Bruce Lee
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Potions and loot

Postby Bruce Lee » Fri Dec 13, 2002 7:32 pm

Why did have to put potions of extra healing in every chest... why is there so much loot... you hardly need a cleric and you never need to buy weapons or ammo... too bad really.
I really need to try and play without using potions, but it would be easier if they werent around...
Is there any way of modifying this?
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Postby fable » Fri Dec 13, 2002 8:31 pm

I once suggested that it's too bad Bioware didn't provide a switch to cut all potions in half. And I could have done completely without the potions of Master Thievery, since they're pure cheese. Do what I do: throw 'em away, or sell 'em as if it was simply gold you found.
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Postby bullions27 » Fri Dec 13, 2002 10:28 pm

Can't exactly remove them or cut down the numbe rwithout editing the actual areas themselves.
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Postby Bruce Lee » Fri Dec 13, 2002 11:24 pm

Okay next time I will try to play without potions. This will make the game more like pnp to me. And the cleric will be an asset again.
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Postby Rataxes » Sat Dec 14, 2002 4:22 am

The purpose of healing pots is to use them in the heat of battle, or that's all I ever use them for anyway. Using a cleric to heal your party is far too slow and inefficient to be used in a intense and difficult battle, more than likely the person who got hurt will be dead before the cleric can even finish his spell. The cleric also stands a good chance of getting disrupted or even killed since he has to get close to whoever he's healing.

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Postby Bruce Lee » Sat Dec 14, 2002 8:04 am

Yeah but that in my opinion is just what the game lacks... I would much rather play on core rules with a normal amount of potions than play on insane and down potions every round. But thats just me :D
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Postby fable » Sat Dec 14, 2002 9:25 am

Originally posted by Rataxes
The purpose of healing pots is to use them in the heat of battle, or that's all I ever use them for anyway. Using a cleric to heal your party is far too slow and inefficient to be used in a intense and difficult battle, more than likely the person who got hurt will be dead before the cleric can even finish his spell.


Yeah, but some people prefer the challenge from all that, versus the surety of a healing potion in the middle of battle. Besides, when you've played through the game several times, even on the most advanced settings, and want something harder to tackle, it makes sense to give yourself handicaps. :)
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Postby bullions27 » Sat Dec 14, 2002 11:17 am

Well I believe there is an imbalance of potions in the game as everything is readily available. However, in the heat of a battle potions, IMO, aren't that much better than a quick tiny heal. It still requires a turn to use, and the potions don't restore that much when you begin fighting NPCs that can do 20-50 damage per hit or spell.

Like what the other person had written, I generally discard them in my Keep or sell the rest for gold. Running half dozen strongholds is expensive. :D
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Postby Bruce Lee » Sat Dec 14, 2002 2:51 pm

Still being surrounded by enemies and grabbing a potion just doesn't sit right with me.
I started a new game and I am determined not to use any potions. It will be me half-orc kensai dual wielding katanas :D
Jaheira, Korgan, Viconia, Jan and Edwin.
This is already a lot of fun since it is much more like when I play PnP.
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Postby VonDondu » Sat Dec 14, 2002 5:38 pm

If you don't want to use potions, then don't use them. If you think there's too much loot, don't pick it up when you find it. What's the problem? :)

In lots of tough battles, I let my party members "tag-team". If one or two characters are badly injured, I have them retreat so they can get healed up while a couple of fresher party members or summoned creatures rush in to absorb the attacks. Some monsters lock their sights on only one character, so I let the monster chase that character all over the room while my other party members snipe at it or nip at its heels. Nobody takes damage that way, except for the monster. I had to change my strategies when I played Throne of Bhaal, but I managed to avoid a lot of damage in Shadows of Amn.

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Postby Bruce Lee » Sat Dec 14, 2002 6:19 pm

My problem is that all classes can solo the game so there is really no need for a balanced party... had they cut down on potions especially there would have been.
This is especially true in ToB where everybody carries a potion of superior healing and a potion of invulnerability. Soloing a kensai through ToB was easy and it shouldn't have been IMO.
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Postby fable » Sun Dec 15, 2002 1:00 am

Guys, I'm amazed there can be an argument about this. We're pretty civilized about people using SK to alter character classes, and all sorts of cheesy things that can make the game about as exciting and difficult as a walk across your bedroom--so what's the big deal about somebody saying they don't want to use potions because they make things too easy? It's his choice. :)
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Postby Rataxes » Sun Dec 15, 2002 5:06 am

People can feel annoyed when someone announces that a certain aspect of the game makes it far too easy and decides to drop it. The person reasons like this:

"I think healing pots makes the game far too easy and thus I've decided to play without them to maintain some degree of challenge"

"Oh I see, so you think I'm a lousy newbie because I can't play without healing pots eh?! Elitist bastard!!!!"

I know this happens because I used to do it myself when I was part of the Diablo II community at Lurker Lounge :)

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Postby Bruce Lee » Sun Dec 15, 2002 8:59 am

It is not so much that it makes it easier it is just that it partly eliminates the need for a balanced party. If we(my PnP group) decided to play without a thief and a cleric we would die very quickly... I just wanted to be more like PnP.
That is why I don't really like the inquisitor... taking down mage defenses is a mage's job to me.
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Postby fable » Sun Dec 15, 2002 10:08 am

Originally posted by Rataxes
"I think healing pots makes the game far too easy and thus I've decided to play without them to maintain some degree of challenge"

"Oh I see, so you think I'm a lousy newbie because I can't play without healing pots eh?! Elitist bastard!!!!"


Insightful. :D But if players would look deeper, they'd just see that it's a difference of playing style. Some people want the joy of just mowing down anything the game throws at 'em, while others (and I admit, I'm in this next group, myself) prefer micro-tinkering in a well-matched battle with legittimate strategic options. De gustibus. :)
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Postby Bruce Lee » Sun Dec 15, 2002 4:28 pm

I like to overpower the enemies aswell, but I'd rather do it because I have developed a good team than having superior items... there isn't much fun in using killsw01 IMO. Maybe a flawed analogy but still, the idea is the same.
And it does make it more like PnP to me.
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Postby firewings95 » Sun Dec 15, 2002 9:54 pm

well all i do is choose the wizard slayer class so that i can't possibly drink a potion. and the fact that people might think of themselves as a newbie by using potions and others don't is just odd. of course people who go through the game a couple of times gets bored of doing the same things and abiding my the same rules. people who are advanced need tweeks to the game to keep themselves interested in it.

i use potion and i don't think i'm a newbie because i haven't beaten the game yet and i'm on novice mode. i still think the game is hard because i don't know what i'm doing. so from my perspective the game is already hard. probably after beating the game a couple of times, i just might play without potions.

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Postby Twyze » Mon Dec 16, 2002 10:09 am

I suppose it's the usual problem that the game designers wanted to make the game as flexible as possible. So you don't have to have a balanced party to beat it. Bioware knew that we would want to do crazy things like solo the game, so they made is possible for us to win with just about any party. If they hadn't done that, the game would not have a fraction of its replay value and we would not be playing it so much!

This meant that the game designers had to put in goodies for parties that didn't have a particular character, a healer, a thief, or whatever.

No fighter? Use summons - horn of valhalla, spider figurine, mage or cleric spells. Or strength potions. Or Tensers.

No thief? Clerics can detect traps. Knock or high strength can unlock doors and chests. Potions and staff of magi for invisibility.

No cleric? Get healing from temples. Ring of regeneration, cloak of the sewers. Healing potions. There have to be plenty of these lying around. Otherwise solo fighters and groups without healers would have to cart around a vast amount of potions.

No mage? Use wands or the magic ability from weapons, rings, etc. Identify with the glasses of identification (cheesiest item in the game, if you ask me).

Bioware also didn’t want you to get stuck in a dead end. So they made sure that there is nearly always a way to beat any problem. Sure, it gets a bit artificial when you just know that a potion, ring or weapon has been put there by a game designer to make life easier for you. It does damage the realism a bit. But I'm sure we can live with it.

My solo berserker (modelled on Korgan) currently drinks potions like a fish. And he has the glasses of identification in his back pocket. But he gets fed up with all these stupid scrolls and stuff that he keeps finding, but can't read. Now, my other solo character, an Aerie look-alike, is the opposite. She hardly uses potions, but loves the free experience she gets from reading scrolls. And of course she has the identify spell and so didn’t bother with those silly glasses.

That's the beauty of the game - there are so many ways to play it.

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Postby Baldursgate Fan » Mon Dec 16, 2002 10:40 am

Originally posted by Twyze

That's the beauty of the game - there are so many ways to play it.


Well said. I couldn't have put it better myself.

The replayability of BG2/ToB is what keeps me coming back for more everytime. :)

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Postby Bruce Lee » Mon Dec 16, 2002 11:39 am

You are right I guess... I have soloed the game with a fighter aswell and it had its moments. I guess I can choose to not use potions but if there weren't any than some games could not be finished.
Well said.
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