Evil Party

This forum is to be used for all discussions pertaining to BioWare's Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn.
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Sir Redweed
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Evil Party

Postby Sir Redweed » Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:48 pm

Has anyone played the game out with an evil party and playing true to form? What differences does it play out? Suggestions for an evil party?


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Lopov
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Postby Lopov » Tue Jun 01, 2010 4:41 pm

I have played as an evil more than once and for me it's much more interesting as being good.I've played as Neutral Evil and once as Chaotic Evil.My CE character from last playthrough was half orc berserker.

Several quests have real evil outcomes, I'll point out just some of them: slight spoilers ahead

[SPOILER]1)quest about rescuing Haer'Dalis and helping Raelis Shai can have a very evil ending, if you're true to form.
2)quest about Shadow Druids has a very good evil ending as does the Valygar's
3)De'Arnise hold quest can be played quite differently being evil
4)Although at the end of the game you fight your way through Elven city, there's no need at all to help elves
5)You can switch side in Windspear Hills and perform a very evil task for Firkraag
6)Copper Coronet is heaven for evil people, you can get some allies there
7)The final speech of Ellessime at the end of the game is a bit changed if you were playing as evil and have low reputation at the end, if I remember correctly[/SPOILER]

...and so on.It can get hard at times, but for me it was always more interesting, I've enjoyed playing as antihero more.I remember I had a party once, that consisted of Minsc, Edwin, Korgan, Viconia and Yoshimo and after that Imoen.I didn't kick my own sister out of the party and Minsc & Edwin didn't fight until death because I chose "wrong" dialogue option about Edwin's quest.I was careful that reputation didn't get too low so I kept Minsc in the party up until [SPOILER]a Svirfneblin quest where an evil option is offered but if it is chosen, Minsc will change sides and you'll have to deal with him.
[/SPOILER]

Some mods make the game more interesting, because they provide more evil options for a player, one of them is Unfinished business.
Using mods, I had Valen in my party, but she's a bit overpowered character.I also had Jan in a party and sometimes Valygar.

I suggest you try it, it's very interesting if you're playing true to form.

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Postby Rancid Sushi » Wed Jun 02, 2010 12:00 am

Valen is more than just a bit overpowered. Even at lower levels, I had her backstabbing for 100+ damage. I don't play evil anymore because the rewards simply aren't as good overall. It's only worth it if you want to take advantage of having the more powerful evil party members, or just enjoy being an a-hole.

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Postby Teaboar » Sun Jun 20, 2010 1:10 am

Rancid Sushi wrote:It's only worth it if you want to take advantage of having the more powerful evil party members, or just enjoy being an a-hole.


I don't agree with this. To me playing an evil party is more fun than playing a good party simply because I've played through the game so many times with a non-evil party. To me playing as evil almost feels like a different story since so many things change. I definitely recommend it if you haven't tried it. Evil parties might be slightly weaker than good parties and some rewards might be worse, but imo all this just adds to the challenge. It's nice not to always have Keldorn in your party to use his op dispel and steamroll every powerful mage you encounter for instance.

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Postby QuenGalad » Sun Jun 20, 2010 6:10 am

I never manage to have Keldorn in good parties precisely because I roleplay good. I think that a good PC would insist on Keldorn returning to his family.

I was very disappointed with the evil resolution to the druid grove quest. It's all right that Lord Coprith is mad at the party, but the other guy should have at least appeared and rewarded them. But then again, we all know evil does not pay :)

Lopov, what did you mean about Haer'dalis? I think I missed the possibility to go evil there...
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Postby Teaboar » Sun Jun 20, 2010 9:48 am

QuenGalad wrote:I never manage to have Keldorn in good parties precisely because I roleplay good. I think that a good PC would insist on Keldorn returning to his family.


I suppose that is debatable. In my eyes a good PC could equally well have Keldorn keep his end of the contract. It might not be the 'most good' way, but his wife does approve of him staying in the party, and there's a polite way to explain to him why you think he should stay, which has been enough for me when I've played the game with a good party. Having said that, I don't personally understand why he even has a lawful good alignment, being the horrible racists that he is, so I've never had any trouble justifying this choise to myself anyway. :D

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Postby Adieu » Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:30 pm

Paladins generally come pre-packaged as a subclass of Lawful Good (or rather, of someone perceiving themselves to be LG):
Lawful St00pid. (Keldorn actually straying into it only twice, w/ a certain drow and w/ some personal matters - shocking, really, considering how you'd expect paladins to act more like a certain Fighter 7>> Cleric)

This one was played straight w/ Anomen, who obviously sees himself as LG, but... isn't!

Slight OT: I think the commonly-occurring Lawful St00pid alignment in American products is a sort of cultural thing, a certain rather commonly-encountered set of perceptions in American or possibly Anglo-Saxon cultures. Just recently watched an episode of NCIS where people are positively weirded out by a reveal that a character exacted some well-deserved vigilante justice on a positively evil but unfortunately untouchable individual who'd apparently stacked up several death penalties' worth of crimes. I was like "and you people care *because*...?!" BG is at least rather good about seeing it for what it is sometimes and poking fun at it. Lots of media products and literature out of America are overflowing with self-righteous Lawful Evil types who are clearly viewed as Lawful Goods by their authors.

...on a separate note, I really cannot see how Korgan is Chaotic Evil - to me, he appears to be VERY Chaotic / Rather Neutral. His only exhibition of outright violent intent towards others wasn't exactly indiscriminate nor towards a bunch of innocents (more of a Minsc-response than a CE one, really), nowhere except his epilogue does he display any scheming bastard tendencies, and he's really just self-serving, not vicious sadistic or even particularly aggressive. Jan, too, is profiled into neutral for harmless less-than-legal activities (which lie on the Lawful-Chaotic scale, iirc) and thus seems like a true-to-form Chaotic Good. Can't remember if Minsc is CG or NG, but he actually acts very NG-aspiring-for-LG (chaotic and crazy not being the same thing).

And don't even get me started on the transparently Neutral Evil druids, Chaotic Neutral vampires, and Chaotic Evil posing as Chaotic Good shadow thieves (play for Bodhi even once - you'll get a lot better storytelling and some interesting insight)...

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Postby Sir Redweed » Mon Jun 21, 2010 8:05 pm

I have never used any of the NPC Paladins. I have taken on their quests but the only time I've had a Paladin in the party was as the main character. It is usually my choice of characters and prefer to play to form instead of usuing the NPC's. This is the main reason I'm planning to play with an evil party to get the complete opposite game as I'm used to playing esp when usuing a Paladin as the PC.

I'm thinking of playing with the following

PC Thief CN
Edwin
Vincona
Korgan

Which will round me out best from here?
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Postby Teaboar » Tue Jun 22, 2010 7:11 am

Sir Redweed wrote:I'm thinking of playing with the following

PC Thief CN
Edwin
Vincona
Korgan

Which will round me out best from here?


I find it's usually a good idea to have 2 arcane spellcasters and 2 clerics, and if you choose to go this path then you could get haer'dalis and anomen (failed test). Then again I remember reading something about anomen eventually flipping off and attacking the party at random if he fails the test, so I'm not sure if that's a good idea. You should probably ask someone else whether this is true or not. Alternatively you could use a multiclass thief as your PC, or dual-class him to a mage or cleric later on, unless you specifically want a single-class thief. Then again it's only my opinion that it's good to have 2 mages and 2 clerics, and especially if you are playing the unmodded version of the game you should have no trouble finishing the game regardless of what npc's you choose to get. Having said that, I would definitely take the three npc's you mentioned if it's your first time playing an evil party, for the story elements alone.

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Postby QuenGalad » Tue Jun 22, 2010 12:02 pm

For someone who's beaten the game a couple of times it really doesn't matter what the character classes are. You can get through with anyone.

Haer'dalis fits nicely in an 'evil' party, with his love of entropy and death, but I don't know how much banter he has with those other npc's.
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Postby Sir Redweed » Tue Jun 22, 2010 8:58 pm

Finishing the game is secondary to enjoying the game. Used to love D&D in college and this is as close as I've seen to it. Playing the evil party true to form is a much fun as beating the game
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Postby Lopov » Thu Jun 24, 2010 10:41 am

QuenGalad wrote:I was very disappointed with the evil resolution to the druid grove quest. It's all right that Lord Coprith is mad at the party, but the other guy should have at least appeared and rewarded them. But then again, we all know evil does not pay :)

Lopov, what did you mean about Haer'dalis? I think I missed the possibility to go evil there...


SPOILERS

[SPOILER]1)If I remember correctly, you are rewarded by the evil guy (forgot his name) that gives you poison for the Druid Grove.I think he waits for you in the inn.

2)About Haer'Dalis-when you rescue him in Mekrath's Lair, there's no other option but to let him return to Raelis.When you get there, you can talk to Raelis and demand large sum of money for returning Haer, then demand another sum of money for the Portal stone.After that Raelis asks if you'll help them during the ritual she's about to perform.You can again demand money for help, you can get it with high charisma.HOWEVER, when bounty hunters appear and try to kidnap Raelis, they ask you on which side you are...you can then simply say, that you don't care and won't help Raelis and so leave them to their fate with a lot of money in your pocket.Raelis is very mad at you, btw :D

You can't get to Astral plane then of course.

And when I did that for the 1st time, I was playing as a fighter.After that the inn owner appeared and start talking to me like I was a bard, so I got the theatre as a stronghold, although I was not of the proper class.i made a thread about this on the forum, but nobody knew how that was possible.It's obviously a bug.But an interesting one.[/SPOILER]

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Postby Ode to a Grasshopper » Thu Jun 24, 2010 5:41 pm

To be honest, with a strong thief (fighter/thief might do you better), mage, cleric, and fighter you already have all your bases covered, and the intial 4-man only disadvantage can be made up for by the faster levelling. Once you get to ToB and pick up the fifth evil NPC you'll be even better off.

If you reallly want another NPC for I'd suggest using the Neutral Cernd for summons and the occasional Insect Swarm and melee - having an iron-skinned werewolf [SPOILER]who abandons his wife and child then kills the guy who raised it, only to take it back to some remote druid grove and leave it there again[/SPOILER] as a party member is still pretty evil.
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Postby Sain » Thu Jun 24, 2010 7:28 pm

Ode to a Grasshopper wrote:To be honest, with a strong thief (fighter/thief might do you better), mage, cleric, and fighter you already have all your bases covered, and the intial 4-man only disadvantage can be made up for by the faster levelling. Once you get to ToB and pick up the fifth evil NPC you'll be even better off.


Thats exactly what I did for my only evil play through, and it was ridiculously easy. Also very fun, but my guy(a Kensai/Thief) was less of a sociopath and more of a pragmatist, killing and stealing only for power, and maintaining a neutral reputation.
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Postby FleaBag » Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:51 am

This is my first post, but has anyone else tried playing through the game with 3 charisma (and selling the ring of human influence) with 1 rep :D It's funny to see a +1 item cost 20-40k. Although playing this way, means you can only have the evil NPCs (I only had Korgan) and the constant spawning of guards could be annoying after awhile.

Oh and the evil path for the druid quest isn't that bad. You get an additional shield of harmony instead of 10k gold and some exp. Could be handy if you want another of those shields.

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Postby QuenGalad » Fri Jun 25, 2010 2:38 am

Cernd... somehow his backstory makes him more evil, in my eyes, than Korgan and certainly Edwin. It's probably the way he's so smug about it, so damn "holy duty comes first and if you don't understand that you're just stupid".

That said, I'm compelled to say that BG must really be a great game if it makes me feel something towards its characters.
Not to mention discovering new things - such as Lopov and Fleabag posted above - after your Nth playthrough :eek:
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Postby FleaBag » Sat Jun 26, 2010 2:33 pm

Yeah, Edwin doesn't seem as evil as he is amusing. The only evil acts I can think of are the initial thieves orders he gave, fireball promises and his amusing attempt to become more powerful than a lich.

Korgan seems to be a tad more evil, with his 'strong will live, weak will die' attitude - that and him killing things for bloodlust and gold.

Am I the only one who thinks Vicionia is the most evil NPC in terms of what they had done in the past?

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Postby Ode to a Grasshopper » Sat Jun 26, 2010 6:24 pm

I was thinking that yesterday with the latest alignment thread, though more with regard to her attitude in the present (game-time) - while there's a lot of noise about Korgan being CE when he's more NE in in-game attitude, I haven't seen the opposite mentioned for Viccy. She's pretty bloodthirsty and when you stop and think about all the suggestions as to what to do she makes to the PC she clearly revels in general arbitrary evil-ness too. It kinda makes sense [SPOILER]that Keldorn tries squishing her and she scares Sarevok[/SPOILER] now I think about it...
No wonder she's my favourite Biogal romance. :D :o
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