mage/cleric character?

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probo
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mage/cleric character?

Postby probo » Tue Jan 12, 2010 2:20 pm

If I make a mage/cleric multiclass I get some type of penalty to spells cast/day, right? I don't understand why that is or how it works, but is it the same thing if I dualclass a mage and cleric? does it make any difference which one I start as?

I want to play a pure caster! no hitting enemies at all, always stay in the back sort of deal.

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willsanders84
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Postby willsanders84 » Tue Jan 12, 2010 2:31 pm

Everything you've mentioned matters. Frankly, I'd go multi-class. If you dual-class, you'll stop gaining levels in the class you started as, and only gain levels in your new class.

Yes, if you dual classed, you'd get higher level spells quicker, but only just. You'd also have to spend some time as only a single class, with your original class inactive until you surpass that level in your new class.

Personally, I think that this is the ONLY time when multi-class is better than dual-class: When creating a cleric/mage. This is because the major bonuses of the cleric and the mage aren't given early on, but instead are their high level spells.

I can't think of a single reason to dual-class here. All other classes dual quite nicely. These don't.

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probo
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Postby probo » Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:38 pm

Thats not what I was asking about, my post was concerning the spells per day only.

I'll explain as much as I know about it to ensure that people know what I'm talking about.

When you have a single classed caster they get bonus spells per day based on their primary attribute. A mage with high int will get more spell-slots (or spells per day) in his spellbook on different levels. There is a whole chart of information regarding this I believe. The more intelligence, the more bonus spells.

The same goes for priests who gets bonus spells to cast based on their wisdom.

But, when you multiclass like aerie you lose the bonus spells per day for one of your classes, can't remember which one atm.

So, now that we know what I'm talking about, please refer to the question in the initial post of this topic.

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Postby willsanders84 » Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:56 pm

Oh tricky tricky. I didn't know you don't get bonus spells per level if you multi. Aerie's wis and int are so low anyway. So you want to know the exact penalties? Get CLUA consoling!!

But seriously, if you did dual, would you start as cleric or mage? And if you DO go multi, surely gnome illusionist/cleric (is that possible?) is the way to go. Just hope you like the sprite :P

I think that the loss of bonus spells (I mean, Anomen's wisdom is like 14 or something rubbish) is a fair price to pay for both high level cleric and mage spells in a multi. Surely dualing is madness! Someone tell me I'm wrong, I'd be interested!

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Postby probo » Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:10 pm

Dualing is propably a bit of madness unless you are ok with having a couple of low level spells of one class and then totally focus on another. Like level 7 cleric or mage and then dualclass immediatly in the start or something.

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Postby Thrifalas » Wed Jan 13, 2010 2:45 am

Dualclassing can be pretty interesting. I don't remember the levels exactly (I think it was 14), but if you dual class a Cleric at the right level you still maintain all, or close to all, of your Mage spells (since Mages over 7m or so don't get any new 9th/8th etc level spells) and at max level you have everything a mage would have with the addition of being able to cast a fairly decent amount of cleric spells, all the way up to 7.

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Postby kmonster » Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:55 am

Mages don't get bonus spells based on their primary attribute and multiclass clerics get the same useless extra low level spell casts based on their wisdom as single class clerics.

You don't get a penalty to spells cast/day for multiclassing. A multiclass cleric13/mage13 can cast the same mage spells as often per day as a mage 13 and the same cleric spells as often per day as a cleric 13 with the same stats for example.

The multiclass drawback is that the XP gains are divided among the classes, a pure class mage or cleric needs only 1,125,000 XP in order to reach level 13, for a multiclass cleric13/mage13 you need 2,250,000 XP, enough to get a pure mage to level 16 or a pure cleric to level 18.

A minor disadvantage of multiclassing is that you can't choose a kit, so you don't get special abilities for being a priest of your deity or extra spells per day for being a specialist mage. The exception are gnome cleric/illusionists which get extra mage spell per level and day in spite of being multiclassed.

Gnome cleric/illusionist is the best choice for a background caster.

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Postby fable » Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:13 am

kmonster wrote:Gnome cleric/illusionist is the best choice for a background caster.


I'd agree with kmonster. Note, too, that you could use an editor to turn Jan into this.

Then you could turn Aerie into a thief/mage. Except that she'd probably shriek in fear while pickpocketing somebody, and give the game away.
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Postby RPGguy » Wed Jan 13, 2010 2:48 pm

Glad I stumbled onto this thread. Based on the recommendations of others, I have built a ranger/cleric PC for my latest complete BG1 ---> ToB runthru (modded). And I never stopped to ask whether or not they were referring to a multi (mandatory half elf) or a human ranger dualed to a cleric. :confused:

I kept rolling stats until I got a WIS of 18 and high DEX/CON...knowing I can pump STR through the roof with equipment. According to the tables, WIS 18 is supposed to grant the following bonus cleric spells

1st x2
2nd x 2
3rd x 1
4th x 1

But it doesn't...for a multi in any event. Just the 1sts are provided (although the rest may show up as I level up). I am still LVL 1 at the moment.

I suspect multi is intended so that the cleric/ranger can access the higher level druid spells, but I am not 100% sure now. The big thing with the Ranger is getting the free dual weilding proficiency out of the gate and to a much lesser extent, the racial enemy bonus. Most Druid spells are bad but Call Lightning (LVL 3), Call Woodland Beings (LVL 4), Insect Plague (LVL 5), Ironskins (LVL 5) seem to be the biggies. There are a couple of LVL 7 spells but I can pass on those.

In order to get the max number of LVL 5 Druid spells (8), I would have to play the ranger to LVL 21 but could get away with LVL 18. That is still 3 million XP and another 2.5 million XP needed to get the cleric up to LVL 18. That's a long downtime but do-able with an 8 million XP cap.
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Postby Crenshinibon » Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:41 pm

Actually, you need at least one level on Ranger to gain access to all of the druid spells, which you will get as soon as you can cast spells of that level. Personally, I like the multiclass more because they are powerful throughout the entire game and are good warriors even without buffs, unlike dual class ranger/clerics.
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Postby Ode to a Grasshopper » Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:30 pm

RPGguy wrote:I suspect multi is intended so that the cleric/ranger can access the higher level druid spells, but I am not 100% sure now. The big thing with the Ranger is getting the free dual weilding proficiency out of the gate and to a much lesser extent, the racial enemy bonus. Most Druid spells are bad but Call Lightning (LVL 3), Call Woodland Beings (LVL 4), Insect Plague (LVL 5), Ironskins (LVL 5) seem to be the biggies. There are a couple of LVL 7 spells but I can pass on those.
You play with the XP cap? :confused:

As has been said, any Ranger levels will give your dual all druid spells - it's actually an unintended side-effect of the way they programmed the Ranger and Paladin spell lists as being level-restricted versions of the Druid and Cleric spell trees, so totally unintended but hardcoded into the game - but multi is still the better option here by far. You'll get more HP, have better THAC0 and attacks per round, and have more weapon proficiencies. Most importantly, though, you'll also get HLAs from both the Cleric and Fighter pools. Not only does this mean you keep on getting HLAs while a dual runs out, but it gives you such options as Sanctuary + Globe of Blades/Aura of Flaming Death, Harm + Critical Strike, Fire Seeds/Energy Blades + Greater Deathblow, and Armor of Faith + Hardiness (+ the Defender of Easthaven).
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Postby RPGguy » Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:33 am

Ode to a Grasshopper wrote:You play with the XP cap? :confused:


I've removed it already from BG/ToSC. Not certain if I'll have to do it again before I import my character to BG2. But yes, I've always played with the cap historically. Once you start experimenting with dual/multi, it has to go though.

Most importantly, though, you'll also get HLAs from both the Cleric and Fighter pools.


Ya, thanks...never even thought that far ahead. The reason I went multi over dual was I didn't want to spend all of BG1 as a vanilla ranger and most/all of BG2 as a dualled cleric, trying to catch up, only to have the benefits of both well into ToB (yawn)
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Postby Stworca » Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:12 pm

I'd take a dual class Cleric/Mage. Dualed as soon as Baldurs Gate 2 starts. You get some nice cleric spells (sanctuary, armor of faith, DUDM etc.), can use shields, but at the same time DO NOT need to remove xp capp to be a high level mage with HLA's. And if you play through BG1, clerics are much easier to play than mages

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