Should I bother with dual-wielding mastery as a rogue

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ushsta
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Should I bother with dual-wielding mastery as a rogue

Postby ushsta » Fri Dec 11, 2009 8:03 pm

A rank 4 skill requiring 36 dex. Considering daggers got buffed and I would have to invest in str to take advantage of that skill, would it be better to keep dex at 30, stick with daggers and concentrate on other stats thereafter.

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Crenshinibon
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Postby Crenshinibon » Fri Dec 11, 2009 11:24 pm

For dagger users, I don't think you should go past the second talent as the laceration damage is minimal and the ability to use large weapons in your offhand doesn't help your daggers.
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Tenser
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Postby Tenser » Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:43 am

WTF ... why do you need Str on a Rogue ? Get Lethality and pump Cun, for heavens sake.

Even less you would need Str after the Dex fix. Before it was:

Attack = 1/2 Dex + 1/2 Str

Damage = 1x Str (or Cun if higher and Lethality has been skilled)

So daggers where exactly like all other melee weapons. Now, with the fix, it is:

Attack = 1/2 Dex + 1/2 Str

Damage = 1/2 Dex + 1/2 Str (or Cun if higher and Lethality has been skilled)

So the damage has been NERFED not improved. BUT you can now go for Dex alone easily for the following benefits:

+ 1/2 Atk
+ 1/2 Dmg
+ 1 Def

So you get ALL possible advantages there are from Dex. So as long as you dont care for Rogue skill performance, you can go all Dex and forget about all other stats.

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Postby Crenshinibon » Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:23 am

By going all out Dexterity, you will do the least possible DPS while having the greatest defense, which in my opinion isn't worth it. It's best to pump Strength to fourteen or so, maybe even less to use equipment, get Dexterity to twenty and put the rest into Cunning. After that you'd take the Assassin specialization as soon as you could (given that you've already played through and unlocked it) and head straight for the Circle Tower.

By going all out Cunning (with Lethality) you get these advantages:

Highest Damage Possible.
Highest Armor Penetration Possible.
Highest Critical Chance Possible.
Can open any chest with only having Deft Hands.
Can succeed in all dialog checks.

As a rogue, you have a few skills that increase your damage even further. The Tainted Blade (acquired from the Warden's Keep DLC) gives a significant damage increase to a cunning rogue while the Assassin ability Exploit Weakness adds bonus damage to your backstabs (I believe it's something like a minimum of ten or (Cunning - 30), which can equal to about sixty bonus damage on a backstab.

By the time I finished the game with my rogue, she had about thirty one percent Critical Chance, nineteen and eighteen armor penetration, doing about forty damage per hand. With Tainted Blade, my character did sixty damage per blade.

The character was a level twenty three Assassin/Duelist with eighty seven Cunning, so there could have been an even higher damage and critical chance number with the Song of Courage active. The reason I didn't go for bard was because I wasn't soloing and had Leliana in my group. This highest backstab/critical was one twenty three, though all backstabs do over a hundred damage towards end game.
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Thrifalas
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Postby Thrifalas » Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:26 am

Tenser wrote:Before it was:

Attack = 1/2 Dex + 1/2 Str

Damage = 1x Str (or Cun if higher and Lethality has been skilled)

So daggers where exactly like all other melee weapons. Now, with the fix, it is:

Attack = 1/2 Dex + 1/2 Str

Damage = 1/2 Dex + 1/2 Str (or Cun if higher and Lethality has been skilled)


Could someone acknowledge that this comment is true, as well as explaining what "fix" is implied? I'm playing a rogue right now and is pretty curious about whether to pump dex, cun or splitting the stats, and obviously it seems as if my version have something to do with it.

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Postby Scottg » Sun Mar 14, 2010 4:49 pm

Thrifalas wrote:Could someone acknowledge that this comment is true, as well as explaining what "fix" is implied? I'm playing a rogue right now and is pretty curious about whether to pump dex, cun or splitting the stats, and obviously it seems as if my version have something to do with it.


Yes, without any updates to your game a *DAGGER* had more damage with Strength (or Cunning and Lethality), than with Dexterity.

With the update it's the same (dex. vs. strength), and as a result means that Daggers and Strength aren't quite as nice anymore for the damage. Note that cunning (w/ lethality) vs. strength results in superior damage with cunning against opponents with armor because of the modest increase in armor penetration. It also leverages several Rogue Specilization specific talents for increased damage.

What really fries my brain though are the *attack* numbers. Since the Discobird post, everyone says "pump cunning", but when I tried such a build the attack numbers were in the toilet UNLESS I attacked directly from behind the opponent (i.e. perfect flank) - that receives almost +20 to attack. :rolleyes:

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Postby Crenshinibon » Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:10 pm

I remember my Cunning based rogue did somewhere between 120 and 180 a hit to the Archdemon when I played. Your attack is awful, yes, but that's why you need to raise it, mostly through Dueling and the Song of Courage.
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Postby Scottg » Sun Mar 14, 2010 8:13 pm

Crenshinibon wrote:I remember my Cunning based rogue did somewhere between 120 and 180 a hit to the Archdemon when I played. Your attack is awful, yes, but that's why you need to raise it, mostly through Dueling and the Song of Courage.


but that's like what? 17-18 max to your attack, with both? *With* a perfect backstab, yeah.. doable, but what a hassle. ..and without a perfect backstab?

And even if you do that you aren't leveraging the Assassin's extras, because you don't have 3 specializations (..and even if you did, you never have enough talents.)

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Postby Crenshinibon » Sun Mar 14, 2010 9:41 pm

It's doable with party members. If you want to solo, then I'd suggest investing points in strength or dexterity to boost your attack and defensive capabilities.

By the time I was done with the game, I had a few talents floating around unused, definitely more than four. In any case, my character was an Assassin/Duelist and I had no problems with her.

It's a matter of playstyle. I personally have no problem utilizing stealth and initiating battle with a backstab, and even then, Cunning rogues have HUGE armor penetration and critical chance, so that's something to consider.
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Postby Scottg » Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:55 pm

Crenshinibon wrote:It's doable with party members. If you want to solo, then I'd suggest investing points in strength or dexterity to boost your attack and defensive capabilities.

By the time I was done with the game, I had a few talents floating around unused, definitely more than four. In any case, my character was an Assassin/Duelist and I had no problems with her.

It's a matter of playstyle. I personally have no problem utilizing stealth and initiating battle with a backstab, and even then, Cunning rogues have HUGE armor penetration and critical chance, so that's something to consider.



Yeah, I don't think I could really "get-into" the character. I tried with various configurations, with and without party members, and never came up with anything I would want to play for the entire game. Dido for any Warrior config.. I also tried an Assassin/Dualist (Dualist 1st to get that +10 to attack). It provides more attack bonus "up front" than a Bard's bonus via Song of Courage (even with a 70 in Cunning), though of course there were additional benefits to Song of Courage (..and like-wise to the Dualist class).

Btw, even with 70 in cunning (with some going to Dexterity and Strength) it's about 10 additional Armor Penetration (..at least by the calculation). Even with a good Dagger's 6 or so, that doesn't seem like a whole lot UNLESS it stacks with the additional weapon. THAT's something I never checked (..though certainly weapon bonuses "stack").

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Postby Crenshinibon » Mon Mar 15, 2010 4:26 pm

My Assassin/Duelist character, with 87 cunning had around 30% critical chance and 19/18 armor penetration. With the bonus power from Warden's Keep, she did a little over sixty damage per dagger.

While I usually stay away from warriors and play rogues as well as mages the most, I have to say that in Dragon Age, my favorite character would have to be a two-handed warrior.
[font="Times New Roman"]“The world breaks every one and afterward many are strong at the broken places. But those that will not break it kills. It kills the very good and the very gentle and the very brave impartially.”[/font]