Ideal Ligthsider?

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Ertani
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Postby Ertani » Wed Jan 21, 2004 2:31 pm

see, that's where you're wrong. you only truly need to use one spell at a time. first-insanity! then, you're homefree. with your character stunned, i can affliction him (in which case all of his abilities will drop by a dozen points-making him weaker than a child) insanity again while affliction takes effect. or, if insanity fails once, i can wave you into the wall, then try again. then i can force lightning you do death (if i'm solely magica), but if i'm part melee (which i am) i just bash you to death.
one cast of affliction on malak and he can NOT hit you.
there's a reason why you fight melee characters all the time, and magica chars on rare occasions. same reason that bg2 has a clump of lizards surrounding the lizard shaman. cuz the magica kicks ass on melee.
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Postby Kool69 » Wed Jan 21, 2004 3:10 pm

But what happens when the brutes get smart and dump a bolder on the shaman?

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Postby Ertani » Wed Jan 21, 2004 4:04 pm

the first spell any shaman casts is stone skin.
the shaman could summon a variety of creatures to kickass. or he could just fry the bo*ulder throwing lizard himself.
who's more powerful in lotr: the fighters or the wizards?
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Postby Armisael » Wed Jan 21, 2004 10:29 pm

Originally posted by Ertani
see, that's where you're wrong. you only truly need to use one spell at a time. first-insanity! then, you're homefree. with your character stunned, i can affliction him (in which case all of his abilities will drop by a dozen points-making him weaker than a child) insanity again while affliction takes effect. or, if insanity fails once, i can wave you into the wall, then try again. then i can force lightning you do death (if i'm solely magica), but if i'm part melee (which i am) i just bash you to death.
Well, that's great and all, but how exactly is the notion of one character fighting another at all relevent to this game? There's no multiplayer, it's you versus the computer, and those sort of tactics simply aren't needed against the computer opponents in this game when you can just smack them for 300 damage every round. Malak's down in two rounds, who cares whether he can hit you or not?

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Postby Kameleon » Thu Jan 22, 2004 7:56 am

Originally posted by Ertani
same reason that bg2 has a clump of lizards surrounding the lizard shaman. cuz the magica kicks ass on melee.


Actually, I think you'll find that the reason is so that the shaman has a chance to fire off a few of his puny spells before you can get to him and take him apart - D&D is so skewed towards melee, how you can't see that is beyond me. Your Insanity cast will in all likelyhood fail, because I have ridiculously high saving throws, and then I'll have already taken off half your health (more if you've been playing as a weedy consular) and at least one of them will be a Critical Strike that stuns you, leaving you completely open to my killing blow that will come somewhere in the 4 hits I get on you the round after. Only if you had a bunch of soldiers surrounding you, that could slow me down a little bit, would you have a chance to get enough spells off that I might actually get hurt.
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Postby Armisael » Thu Jan 22, 2004 11:54 am

In my experience, a mage in BG2 will usually take a fighter apart with ease unless the fighter has spell support... but that doesn't matter here because this isn't BG2.

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Postby Kameleon » Thu Jan 22, 2004 12:42 pm

Originally posted by Armisael
In my experience, a mage in BG2 will usually take a fighter apart with ease unless the fighter has spell support... but that doesn't matter here because this isn't BG2.


Indeed, BG2 is the game that goes a way to pushing the balance towards the mage, and that's because of the high-level spells that are missing in BG, PS:T and also KotOR. However it's still a point that when I soloed the game with a Kensai/Mage, all my spell sequencers/contingencies were focused on more/harder hitting, and there were few occasions that I had to use any real offensive spells other than Breach. Half of the argument really depends on whether you consider buffing spells (I do keep Master Speed on all the time in KotOR, it helps that it's a little bit bugged out of combat) to be spell support. It's something that my pure fighter can use without sacrificing any melee power, but with it he becomes twice as good.
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Postby Kool69 » Thu Jan 22, 2004 2:36 pm

Fighter vs Wizard

Wizards have to use alot of planning and time to shape the battlefield to their liking and then always have an escape plan ;)

Fighters of the more hack and slash varient can take out a wizard in a flash at close range Depending on the conditions, experience, location, equipment, how much the fighters know about each other can all change the battle drastically...

So just depending on all those varibles actually no one can actually say a fighter is better than a wizard.....

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Postby Ertani » Thu Jan 22, 2004 3:06 pm

yeah yeah depends on the variables.
remember, my spells are as good as your feats. and valor makes saving throws incredible. that's why i base my game around making insanity/stasis field work. if it fails, you'll probably kill me. if it succeeds, i'll probably kill you. but I can take out 50 enemies as easily as i can one. and: i look much cooler.
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Postby Kameleon » Fri Jan 23, 2004 5:10 am

Originally posted by Ertani
and: i look much cooler.


You have oddly-coloured sprites floating around your head. I have two lightsabers. 'Nuff said :D
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Postby Fnord » Fri Jan 23, 2004 5:42 am

I can agree that skills are pretty unnecessary for the most part, but it's still kind of annoying to have to transit back to the Hawk and pick up Mission every time you want to do something. Many areas also don't allow you to transit, so you'd have to either bring Mission along with you from the get-go, or go back outside each time you encounter a computer you want to slice or a mine you need disabled.

Which is why I tend to prefer the Scout to the Soldier. At level 8, the Scout has acquired just as many feats as a Soldier, if you take implants into consideration. Implants are something worth investing in, so the only thing you really gain by playing a Soldier is a few +'s to your attack roll, but the flip-side is that you can't do squat other than fight.

The Scout gets plenty of feats (including implants), good skills, and has only a slightly harder time hitting things (which hardly matters in this game anyhow). And splitting it 8/12 also gets you all the top-tier Jedi feats too, though just barely. If you can live without jump, I'd suggest being a Consular to make up for the relatively low Jedi level (and therefore FP's). Just a suggestion.
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Postby Ertani » Fri Jan 23, 2004 6:32 am

lmao.

i suppose you didn't know that you can go to the map menu, press A, and then switch party members w/out returning to the EH?

i have 2 lightsabers as well. and i can shoot lightning at you.

the point is, dave chapelle is the ultimate sith master.
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Postby Armisael » Sat Jan 24, 2004 4:03 am

But you can't use those sabers and shoot lightning at the same time.

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Postby Ertani » Sat Jan 24, 2004 7:45 am

sure i can. throw saber + lightning as a single attack.
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Postby Armisael » Sat Jan 24, 2004 7:52 am

:rolleyes:

You can take out 50 enemies as easy as you can one, but taking out one still takes you far longer than it takes me. Whether or not you look better is a matter of taste. Personally I think force storm looks boring compared to jumping from opponent to opponent, killing each one in a single combat round.

Then again, this thread became a joke one page ago, so maybe just forget the whole thing.

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Postby fable » Sat Jan 24, 2004 8:44 am

Originally posted by Fnord
I can agree that skills are pretty unnecessary for the most part, but it's still kind of annoying to have to transit back to the Hawk and pick up Mission every time you want to do something. Many areas also don't allow you to transit, so you'd have to either bring Mission along with you from the get-go, or go back outside each time you encounter a computer you want to slice or a mine you need disabled.


Or you develop a core team, each of whose members have one useful skill among the following: demolitions, computer, repair, etc. Don't even bother about security. The way they made this game so incredibly easy, you can just bash anything that's locked, and open it. For that matter, if you don't use mines, don't bother with demolitions, either. Just explode 'em, and Cure/Heal the results.

By the second half of the game, I no longer needed, nor used, Mission. Despite having a soldier, I still had all the skills I needed from party members. :)
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Postby Fnord » Sun Jan 25, 2004 6:07 pm

Originally posted by Ertani
lmao.

i suppose you didn't know that you can go to the map menu, press A, and then switch party members w/out returning to the EH?

i have 2 lightsabers as well. and i can shoot lightning at you.

the point is, dave chapelle is the ultimate sith master.
close thread.

And I suppose you didn't know that this function is disabled in the very same areas where you can't transit back to the Hawk, which was the real point of my argument. If you want to quibble over semantics, then by all means, feel free, but it doesn't really change the meaning of anything I said.

@fable,

I guess I can see the merit in that. Locked doors and mines just don't pose enough of a threat to justify using skills to bypass them. The real reason that having computer skills on my PC was so critical to me was that my preferred party included Carth and Bastila, neither of whom even know how to type. In an indoor base where it isn't possible to easily switch one or the other out for Mission, I would have had to either bring her along to begin with, venture back outside to make the switch, or just say screw the computer altogether. Slicing any given computer terminal usually isn't necessary, but sometimes it's very convenient--especially when there's a pesky forcefield or a band of those big security bots that you could simply disable rather than fight. It's really just a matter of preference.
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Postby Armisael » Mon Jan 26, 2004 7:58 am

I don't like going without skills. I realise it's perfectly sound to prance through a minefield or open doors and containers by shooting them repeatedly, but for some reason, doing stuff like that makes the game seem considerably more stupid to me.

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Postby HellBoundMidget » Tue Feb 03, 2004 5:30 pm

what about this thought lvl 5 scoundrel/15 gaurdian
good skills early.... good feats late plus you get scoundrels luck witch pwns joo. :p
btw is the max lvl 20? what i mean is can you only have lvls that add up to 20? b/c in PC once you hit jedi your base class keeps growing as well.

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Postby Jack Dell » Wed Feb 11, 2004 11:16 am

I played on XBOX, but Im pretty sure your base class does NOT keep growing cause it wouldnt make any sense at all. The game would go from easy to a joke.